Pages: 1 … 6 7 8 9 10 … 12

 

2010-09-09 16:59:02
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6480
it's a bit of a poor syllogism to come to the conclusion that 'our laws of modern society are based on judeo-christian values because: a) our laws are based on societal morals and b) some early judeo-christian instructs still remain in modern iterations'. the judeo-christian stuff is pretty easily traceable and is of obvious origin... as for the other half of modern law, it's very much secular in nature. as dilbert said, there's the popular morality and the utilitarian-based stuff that is just for general 'good' and wellbeing.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-09-09 17:00:16
dill13
Member
+67|6203

JohnG@lt wrote:

dill13 wrote:

Ok the illegal gambling has bookies and gang involvement which often times results in people being hurt killed over money making them legal and regulated by the government makes these things mostly go away(people still get loans for gambling from gangs where its legal. Prostitution has "pimps" which force there "hoes" to do things they dont want to or get beat up killed,again legal prostitution like in Nevada gets rid of most of this but there is still illegal prostitution with "pimps". Drug law violations obvious gang involvement dangers of making certain drugs and some drugs that are very dangerous to the users health, again legalizing this gets rid of some of the problems. the homosexual acts thing is just plain stupid though. So my point is none save the last one are truly victimless even if legal but I see no victim in pirating music. They have just recently change the laws in canada so that if internet companies can detect illegal downloading they are supposed to report you so i have stop pirating files i have also not bought any music or movies since i bought firefly like 2 years ago.
Why is gambling illegal? If it were legal there would be no need for underground bookies or gang involvement.

Why is prostitution illegal? If it were legal there would be no need for pimps.

If drugs were legal, why would gangs sell them?

Illegal downloading of music however does have a victim. As much as people hate the music companies, it is theft to download their property without paying for it. Is it ok to steal a head of cabbage from a supermarket, but not ok to steal from a farm simply because the victim is a 'real person' rather than a faceless corporate entity? No.
did you read my post or just not understand it i said making it legal will not get rid of all the criminal elements there is illegal prostitution in Nevada cause its cheaper theres still gangs that give illegal loans for gambling in vegas which results in murders some drugs are very dangerous to produce/"cook" and are also very dangerous to the users health.
2010-09-09 17:02:29
mtb0minime
minimember
+2,418|6664

*opens door to thread

I'd spent around $100~$150 every time I went to the record store (and that'd be after having to put many things back to lower the cost and get them another time), and I went usually once a month. Illegal downloaders spending the most on music definitely sounds believable and legitimate to me.

*slowly backs out
2010-09-09 17:04:03
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6480
well after accruing aroundabout 25,000 albums in a 550Gb haul over 6 years of active download... i did then go and buy the entire Ricky Gervais radio series on the iTunes Store for a grand total of ~£30.00...

... well, i was feeling frivolous!
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-09-09 17:06:24
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6625|do not disturb

Dilbert_X wrote:

Modern laws also align with what is beneficial for society as a whole, not just simple morality.
Hence drinking hour limits, drinking age limits, speed limits etc.

Society does come before individual rights sometimes.
When I use to work a night shift from 4 PM to 1 AM, I would sometimes join my crew at a bar to drink. Bar would close at 2 hours. Would you guess some of the heavy drinks drank as though they had all night, or just 1 hour? Who is more likely to get horribly wasted?

There is also evidence that actually suggests speed limits make people less defensive drivers. (digging up source that you won't read/disregard)

Collectivist ideals, if they only really worked.
2010-09-09 17:13:26
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,053|6781|PNW

I was a huge video game pirate when I was a teenager without money, with only a side interest in music and movies (pirating-wise). Now, the family collection of games, movies and music alone is worth over $25k. I wouldn't have gotten most of the games (particularly PC games) if I wasn't introduced to them, their series or their genres through piracy.
2010-09-09 17:17:02
.Sup
be nice
+2,646|6462|The Twilight Zone

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

I was a huge video game pirate when I was a teenager without money, with only a side interest in music and movies. Now, the family collection of games, movies and music alone is worth over $25k. I wouldn't have gotten most of the games (particularly PC games) if I wasn't introduced to them, their series or their genres through piracy.
no need to brag newbie :p
https://www.shrani.si/f/3H/7h/45GTw71U/untitled-1.png
2010-09-09 17:31:12
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5367|London, England

dill13 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

dill13 wrote:

Ok the illegal gambling has bookies and gang involvement which often times results in people being hurt killed over money making them legal and regulated by the government makes these things mostly go away(people still get loans for gambling from gangs where its legal. Prostitution has "pimps" which force there "hoes" to do things they dont want to or get beat up killed,again legal prostitution like in Nevada gets rid of most of this but there is still illegal prostitution with "pimps". Drug law violations obvious gang involvement dangers of making certain drugs and some drugs that are very dangerous to the users health, again legalizing this gets rid of some of the problems. the homosexual acts thing is just plain stupid though. So my point is none save the last one are truly victimless even if legal but I see no victim in pirating music. They have just recently change the laws in canada so that if internet companies can detect illegal downloading they are supposed to report you so i have stop pirating files i have also not bought any music or movies since i bought firefly like 2 years ago.
Why is gambling illegal? If it were legal there would be no need for underground bookies or gang involvement.

Why is prostitution illegal? If it were legal there would be no need for pimps.

If drugs were legal, why would gangs sell them?

Illegal downloading of music however does have a victim. As much as people hate the music companies, it is theft to download their property without paying for it. Is it ok to steal a head of cabbage from a supermarket, but not ok to steal from a farm simply because the victim is a 'real person' rather than a faceless corporate entity? No.
did you read my post or just not understand it i said making it legal will not get rid of all the criminal elements there is illegal prostitution in Nevada cause its cheaper theres still gangs that give illegal loans for gambling in vegas which results in murders some drugs are very dangerous to produce/"cook" and are also very dangerous to the users health.
No, I didn't read it, I scanned it. Between the run on sentences, lack of paragraphs, and misspellings it was painful to read
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-09-09 17:33:56
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6625|do not disturb

Dill is alright by me. He bought me the Big Short on Amazon and it arrived today in the mail. (happy)
2010-09-09 17:41:14
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5367|London, England

Phrozenbot wrote:

Dill is alright by me. He bought me the Big Short on Amazon and it arrived today in the mail. (happy)
Good book. Not saying he's a bad guy, his posts are just difficult to read.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-09-09 17:46:25
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6625|do not disturb

JohnG@lt wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

Dill is alright by me. He bought me the Big Short on Amazon and it arrived today in the mail. (happy)
Good book. Not saying he's a bad guy, his posts are just difficult to read.
I know, but dill doesn't post very often, especially here. He's from Canadia and I chat with him on TS sometimes

btw after I'm done with that, I'll be loooking for some more suggested reading. Liar's Poker was a very good read in a long while.
2010-09-09 17:49:34
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5367|London, England
https://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/01/b8/de91124128a012ff9f3f9010.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg
In Payback: The Conspiracy to Destroy Michael Milken and his Financial Revolution,(*) Daniel Fischel sets out to refute one of the most popular myths of the Reagan era: that Milken, the media's poster boy for the "decade of greed," was a crook who used "junk bonds" to help unscrupulous financiers plunder corporate America and bankrupt the savings and loan industry. According to Fischel, Milken was victimized by three groups with complementary agendas: politically ambitious government prosecutors, old-line establishment bankers, and congressional regulators of the banking industry. And all of their efforts were supported by the popular press, which seemed to take the position that anyone who made as much money as Milken (more than $500 million in 1987) had to be dishonest. Written with the persuasiveness of a legal brief, Payback is a powerful indictment of the U.S. government for meddling with the marketplace and scapegoating Milken for its own failure to save the savings and loan industry.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m … _18579241/

Should be right up your alley since you've been reading books on bonds.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-09-09 17:50:05
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6115|eXtreme to the maX
If you like that kind of book then "And the band played on" is good.
Like "The big short" except with AIDS instead of money.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2010-09-09 17:52:02
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5367|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

If you like that kind of book then "And the band played on" is good.
Like "The big short" except with AIDS instead of money.
But AIDS is good. It was sent by God to scourge the earth of homosexuals.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-09-09 17:53:36
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6115|eXtreme to the maX

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

If you like that kind of book then "And the band played on" is good.
Like "The big short" except with AIDS instead of money.
But AIDS is good. It was sent by God to scourge the earth of homosexuals.
In the same way that financial crises are good because they only affect capitalists and will return us to an agrarian utopia?
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2010-09-09 17:54:35
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5367|London, England

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

If you like that kind of book then "And the band played on" is good.
Like "The big short" except with AIDS instead of money.
But AIDS is good. It was sent by God to scourge the earth of homosexuals.
In the same way that financial crises are good because they only affect capitalists and will return us to an agrarian utopia?
Yes. Physiocracy is the way of the future.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-09-09 18:00:54
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6480

Phrozenbot wrote:

Dill is alright by me. He bought me the Big Short on Amazon and it arrived today in the mail. (happy)
hey dill/dilbert... ive got an amazon wishlist with 1000+ books if you're feeling kind...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-09-09 18:03:41
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6625|do not disturb

Uzique wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

Dill is alright by me. He bought me the Big Short on Amazon and it arrived today in the mail. (happy)
hey dill/dilbert... ive got an amazon wishlist with 1000+ books if you're feeling kind...
Do you trust me with your mailing address? Promise I won't break into your home and watch you sleep at night ;)
2010-09-09 18:10:29
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6480
hell ya on my public amazon wishlist it's my academic department pigeonhole so feel free...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-09-09 18:14:19
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6625|do not disturb

Actually I bought sir Dill Pickle a few games on steam. He was returning the favor. What is in it for him or me?
2010-09-09 18:16:32
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6139|North Tonawanda, NY

JohnG@lt wrote:

Illegal downloading of music however does have a victim. As much as people hate the music companies, it is theft to download their property without paying for it. Is it ok to steal a head of cabbage from a supermarket, but not ok to steal from a farm simply because the victim is a 'real person' rather than a faceless corporate entity? No.
What is actually stolen when you download music?

I'm not advocating it, but really, what material items are deprived of another when you download music?  I'll give you a hint--nothing.  It's copyright infringement, and it is NOT a criminal matter--it is civil.  FEOS aptly pointed out that it is illegal nonetheless, but equating it to theft is outright foolish and completely inappropriate.

JohnG@lt wrote:

jord wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

You kind of missed the point. Phrozenbot, like me, thinks morality should be stripped out of law. What you do in your own home shouldn't be the business of anyone else. Drug laws are built on morality, they create no victim, and thus have no real place in a society built on reason.
I don't think people can handle such a move. Especially with regards to animal cruelty, but let's no go there lest I be accused of being a serial derailer.
Ahh, but the animal is the victim in that case
Can't legislate that though, according to you.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Show me a single 'victimless crime' that has any place within society.
Laws against driving without insurance.  There is a reason people need insurance and you never know if they have it until some dickwad without it hits you...

Last edited by SenorToenails (2010-09-09 18:21:31)

2010-09-09 18:48:20
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5367|London, England

SenorToenails wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Illegal downloading of music however does have a victim. As much as people hate the music companies, it is theft to download their property without paying for it. Is it ok to steal a head of cabbage from a supermarket, but not ok to steal from a farm simply because the victim is a 'real person' rather than a faceless corporate entity? No.
What is actually stolen when you download music?

I'm not advocating it, but really, what material items are deprived of another when you download music?  I'll give you a hint--nothing.  It's copyright infringement, and it is NOT a criminal matter--it is civil.  FEOS aptly pointed out that it is illegal nonetheless, but equating it to theft is outright foolish and completely inappropriate.
It is theft. It's a product sold for money that you are illegally lifting. Would you steal a book out of a bookstore? All they are doing is profiting off of a copyright. Would you walk into a music shop and steal CDs? If caught, would that be a civil or a criminal matter? So please explain to me how you can buy one product in a store and yet feel it is ok to rip it off by downloading it on the internet? You're ripping off the studio, the record company, the artist and the wholesaler who would sell the product. There are a multitude of victims.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-09-09 18:55:05
tazz.
oz.
+1,338|6184|Sydney | ♥

if i could afford it, i would pay for it.
everything i write is a ramble and should not be taken seriously.... seriously. ♥
2010-09-09 18:55:40
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6139|North Tonawanda, NY

JohnG@lt wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Illegal downloading of music however does have a victim. As much as people hate the music companies, it is theft to download their property without paying for it. Is it ok to steal a head of cabbage from a supermarket, but not ok to steal from a farm simply because the victim is a 'real person' rather than a faceless corporate entity? No.
What is actually stolen when you download music?

I'm not advocating it, but really, what material items are deprived of another when you download music?  I'll give you a hint--nothing.  It's copyright infringement, and it is NOT a criminal matter--it is civil.  FEOS aptly pointed out that it is illegal nonetheless, but equating it to theft is outright foolish and completely inappropriate.
It is theft. It's a product sold for money that you are illegally lifting. Would you steal a book out of a bookstore? All they are doing is profiting off of a copyright. Would you walk into a music shop and steal CDs? If caught, would that be a civil or a criminal matter? So please explain to me how you can buy one product in a store and yet feel it is ok to rip it off by downloading it on the internet? You're ripping off the studio, the record company, the artist and the wholesaler who would sell the product. There are a multitude of victims.
Before you accuse me of advocating this, please note the bolded portion above.  I brought this up because I really despise how people equate copyright infringement with larceny.  They are nowhere near the same, since no one has been deprived of any physical possessions.  It really means people have just bought into the MPAA's ad campaign against 'illegal downloading' without thinking about it. 

I also never said it was victimless, so take it easy there killer.

Edit:

Let me clarify the difference:

If I walk into a record store and steal a CD, I have deprived the store of merchandise and thus committed a crime.  If I download an electronic copy of an album, I have not deprived anyone of anything, except maybe a sale.  No one no longer has an item they can sell for profit, since the material is purely electronic.  That is why I can be sued for horrendous amounts if caught.  Whereas if I steal from the record store, I can go to jail.  See the difference?

Last edited by SenorToenails (2010-09-09 19:03:49)

2010-09-09 19:14:21
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,810|6115|eXtreme to the maX
A CD is just a mechanism for selling copyrighted material, the fact that its tangible is irrelevant, it costs a few cents to produce the same as operating an online store to sell music probably costs a few cents per album to operate.

Taking someone elses personal property, without paying the asking price, is theft - whether its intellectual property or physical property.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!

 

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