Uhhh, aren't we forgetting something. As wages are depressed, so is the level of disposable income left to spend on goods and services. Only when the prices of goods and services are reduced, but wages remain level or increase, do we see a positive net effect of lower prices.whittsend wrote:
I don't care to discuss Wal-Mart. It isn't really a subject I care much about. (Why would anyone waste their time being a Wal-Mart zealot?)Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
The depression of wages and net loss associated with illegal workers doesn't increase people's living level. Illegals depress wages, and as much as you may not want to admit it, American workers are displaced as a result of this. These conditions often result in American workers taking jobs making less than they were before, or taking multiple jobs to offset the wages of their previous job.
The 'depression of wages' allows the sale of goods and services at lower prices, while increasing profits and expanding business. If you are able to purchase goods and services at a lower rate, that allows you to purchase other goods and services besides, and increases your standard of living. If you cannot see this I cannot help you.
As far as jobs 'lost' to Americans goes, this is tripe. It is common knowledge that the VAST majority of the unemployed in the US remain unemployed for less than a year. In fact most, for less than 6 months. Our unemployment rate is generally much lower than other industrialised nations. This is because we sustain a high level of growth for an advanced industrial economy. Part of the reason we are able to sustain this level of growth is because we have a large pool of low income laboer: Illegal immigrants.
This is basic economics. Your wishes to the contrary will not change it. There isn't much point in continuing the discussion if you continue to insist that cheap labor doesn't increase your standard of living. That is akin to saying 'black is white.' All I can do is say that you are wrong, and I'm getting tired of it.
Edit: Once again, I am not supporting illegal immigration. I am simply pointing out the economic facts of the matter. I understand that we cannot allow people to undermine the law, but I also understand that upholding the law will cost me something in this case.
First, how are the prices of goods and services going to be reduced while wages are increased? Not going to happen.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Uhhh, aren't we forgetting something. As wages are depressed, so is the level of disposable income left to spend on goods and services. Only when the prices of goods and services are reduced, but wages remain level or increase, do we see a positive net effect of lower prices.
Next; the number of individuals who cannot afford the cheaper goods (illegals) is vastly outnumbered by those who can (citizens). And, to be quite frank about it, I'm not horribly concerned about the illegals, as they are still likely better off than they would have been back home, and potentially will increase there lot even more over time.
Is this Romper Room? Why do I need to tell you this? Probably because you have made your mind up on the matter: There is no down side to eliminating illegal immigration for you, and you aren't going to let a few pesky facts change that.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-05-05 12:23:04)
Like it or not that is the opinion I have had since I can remember. Got my citizenship last Friday and yes I’m proud of it and my opinion remains the same.IronFerret wrote:
I always find funny how recent imigrants in US become rigth wing nuts 2 minutes after they get citizenship.. i think its just they want to be accepted.. so they blowjob dicks of those who rejected them before. I have see that happend with mexicans, cubans and well lots others...NSP-MAXIMUS wrote:
Not true... I'm from Spain but I recently got my US citizenship and I think this all protest is crap... If you are not a citizen of a country you should not have the right to protests and even less swing your home country flag wile you do it. As my wife puts it: "It should be considered a national invasion and bring in the military (a black Hawk with a nice rubber bullet chain-gun would do just fine(notice the generous rubber bullet part))"
.
Let americans defend their position at least most of them are doing it with cleaver arguments than your facist thinking.
You can try to diminish my opinions by making disrespectful statements against my but that’s how it is.
“Let Americans defend their position…” Yep… that includes me so live with it.
Have a little sense of humor. The black hawk idea was funny.
It's called modernization. There are many areas where more modern equipment could replace a large number of the illegals they require to do things manually. Instead of hiring 5 illegals to wash dishes, you install a commercial dishwasher system that only needs one person to run it. Instead of hiring a large crew to clean floors with hand mops you buy cleaning equipment that can do the same amount of work with far fewer workers. The problem is that this requires a capital outlay, but businesses find it easier to simply exploit the cheap labor and maintain the status quo.whittsend wrote:
First, how are the prices of goods and services going to be reduced while wages are increased? Not going to happen.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Uhhh, aren't we forgetting something. As wages are depressed, so is the level of disposable income left to spend on goods and services. Only when the prices of goods and services are reduced, but wages remain level or increase, do we see a positive net effect of lower prices.
Next; the number of individuals who cannot afford the cheaper goods (illegals) is vastly outnumbered by those who can (citizens). And, to be quite frank about it, I'm not horribly concerned about the illegals, as they are still likely better off than they would have been back home, and potentially will increase there lot even more over time.
Is this Romper Room? Why do I need to tell you this? Probably because you have made your mind up on the matter: There is no down side to eliminating illegal immigration for you, and you aren't going to let a few pesky facts change that.
Or, alternately, you could have an illegal operate the new machinery and decrease the prices even more, thus inclreasing the general standard of living even more. If you hire a citizen to operate the machine which does the work of five illegals, it probably costs you the same in the long run, so there is no incentive to do so. Modernization, where it is applicable (and it isn't applicable everywhere) does not make the problem go away.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
It's called modernization. There are many areas where more modern equipment could replace a large number of the illegals they require to do things manually. Instead of hiring 5 illegals to wash dishes, you install a commercial dishwasher system that only needs one person to run it. Instead of hiring a large crew to clean floors with hand mops you buy cleaning equipment that can do the same amount of work with far fewer workers. The problem is that this requires a capital outlay, but businesses find it easier to simply exploit the cheap labor and maintain the status quo.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-05-05 12:49:07)
However if a company invests in the capital goods needed they save in the long run, and actually produce more profit. Some are just too lazy to do such. Think about it though, invest in a machine to wash the floors operated by one person. Pay them twice as much as you would an illegal but still does the work of 5 illegals. In the long run that is 3 illegals you are not paying consistently and you turn a profit. Also if you want to take a look in labor intensive industries you will find it is better to have a higher paid skilled worker than poorly trained cheap labor. You have less product loss, your employees favor you more and in turn dont steal from the company etc. When your employees like you, you also get more production out of them because they are happy. Poorly paid employees get disgruntled and often screw the company.whittsend wrote:
Or, alternately, you could have an illegal operate the new machinery and decrease the prices even more, thus inclreasing the general standard of living even more. If you hire a citizen to operate the machine which does the work of five illegals, it probably costs you the same in the long run, so there is no incentive to do so. Modernization, where it is applicable (and it isn't applicable everywhere) does not make the problem go away.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
It's called modernization. There are many areas where more modern equipment could replace a large number of the illegals they require to do things manually. Instead of hiring 5 illegals to wash dishes, you install a commercial dishwasher system that only needs one person to run it. Instead of hiring a large crew to clean floors with hand mops you buy cleaning equipment that can do the same amount of work with far fewer workers. The problem is that this requires a capital outlay, but businesses find it easier to simply exploit the cheap labor and maintain the status quo.
TR PWNZatlvolunteer wrote:
Someone sent this to me, and I thought it fitting to post here:"In the first place, we should insist that if the immigrant who comes here in good faith becomes an American and assimilates himself to us, he shall be treated on an exact equality with everyone else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed, or birthplace, or origin. But this is predicated upon the person's becoming in every facet an American, and nothing but an American...There can be no divided allegiance here. Any man who says he is an American, but something else also, isn't an American at all. We have room for but one flag, the American flag... We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language ... and we have room for but one sole loyalty and that is a loyalty to the American people."
---Theodore Roosevelt 1907
So lets build our entire economy around exploiting illegal labor, rather than hiring US citizens. Lets continue to deflate wages far more than illegals reduce the cost of products or services they offer.whittsend wrote:
Or, alternately, you could have an illegal operate the new machinery and decrease the prices even more, thus inclreasing the general standard of living even more. If you hire a citizen to operate the machine which does the work of five illegals, it probably costs you the same in the long run, so there is no incentive to do so. Modernization, where it is applicable (and it isn't applicable everywhere) does not make the problem go away.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
It's called modernization. There are many areas where more modern equipment could replace a large number of the illegals they require to do things manually. Instead of hiring 5 illegals to wash dishes, you install a commercial dishwasher system that only needs one person to run it. Instead of hiring a large crew to clean floors with hand mops you buy cleaning equipment that can do the same amount of work with far fewer workers. The problem is that this requires a capital outlay, but businesses find it easier to simply exploit the cheap labor and maintain the status quo.
Lets not forget the loss of tax collection. Since taxes are based on a % of what is earned, illegals pay little or no taxes, and their deflation of wages results in less taxes collected, with an overall result of more people requiring tax funded services to offset their lack of wages.
Maybe I have made up my mind, but so have you. For every piece of evidence that you can find that illegals help the economy, I can find one that says they aren't.
And economic impact aside, there is still the bigger problem that you can't wash away with economic figures. Many of these illegals don't want to be US citizens because they want to be Americans. They do it out of necessity, not desire. They are first, foremost, and always Mexicans, or whatever nationality from the country they came from, not Americans. As it stands, we may just as well call this place the United States of Mexico.
Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-05-05 13:07:12)
Hey, look chief, I'm just spelling out the reality of it. I have consistently said that I do not support illegal immigration. All I'm saying is that we get a lot more from it than you think. Anyone who says illegals don't contribute to the economy simply doesn't understand the macroeconomics of the situation.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
So lets build our entire economy around exploiting illegal labor, rather than hiring US citizens. Lets continue to deflate wages far more than illegals reduce the cost of products or services they offer.
Lets not forget the loss of tax collection. Since taxes are based on a % of what is earned, illegals pay little or no taxes, and their deflation of wages results in less taxes collected, with an overall result of more people requiring tax funded services to offset their lack of wages.
Maybe I have made up my mind, but so have you. For every piece of evidence that you can find that illegals help the economy, I can find one that says they aren't.
And economic impact aside, there is still the bigger problem that you can't wash away with economic figures. Many of these illegals don't want to be US citizens because they want to be Americans. They do it out of necessity, not desire. They are first, foremost, and always Mexicans, or whatever nationality from the country they came from, not Americans. As it stands, we may just as well call this place the United States of Mexico.
As far as taxes go, our govenment has never let a little thing like it's absolute income stop it from spending whatever it wants; and, as I said before, if we want to stop mooching, let's get rid of taxpayer funded programs altogether. I don't like giving my money away regardless of whether the recipient was born here or elsewhere.
Last edited by whittsend (2006-05-05 13:14:08)
I don't think elimination is the problem, but stopping the fraud within them is something to be addressed. I would only agree to complete elimination of such programs when they also completely eliminate corporate welfare.whittsend wrote:
Hey, look chief, I'm just spelling out the reality of it. I have consistently said that I do not support illegal immigration. All I'm saying is that we get a lot more from it than you think. Anyone who says illegals don't contribute to the economy simply doesn't understand the macroeconomics of the situation.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
So lets build our entire economy around exploiting illegal labor, rather than hiring US citizens. Lets continue to deflate wages far more than illegals reduce the cost of products or services they offer.
Lets not forget the loss of tax collection. Since taxes are based on a % of what is earned, illegals pay little or no taxes, and their deflation of wages results in less taxes collected, with an overall result of more people requiring tax funded services to offset their lack of wages.
Maybe I have made up my mind, but so have you. For every piece of evidence that you can find that illegals help the economy, I can find one that says they aren't.
And economic impact aside, there is still the bigger problem that you can't wash away with economic figures. Many of these illegals don't want to be US citizens because they want to be Americans. They do it out of necessity, not desire. They are first, foremost, and always Mexicans, or whatever nationality from the country they came from, not Americans. As it stands, we may just as well call this place the United States of Mexico.
As far as taxes go, our govenment has never let a little thing like it's absolute income stop it from spending whatever it wants; and, as I said before, if we want to stop mooching, let's get rid of taxpayer funded programs altogether. I don't like giving my money away regardless of whether the recipient was born here or elsewhere.
Last edited by Agent_Dung_Bomb (2006-05-05 13:23:51)
Works for me. I don't descriminate by size, I don't want corporations to get my money any more than I want the drunk on the corner to get it. The point isn't who get's it, it is that I shouldn't be forced to give it away under threat of force.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
I don't think elimination is the problem, but stopping the fraud within them is something to be addressed. I would only agree to complete elimination of such programs when they also completely eliminate corporate welfare.
Oh, and they have reform the IRS to stop allowing the wealthy to avoid paying taxes.whittsend wrote:
Works for me. I don't descriminate by size, I don't want corporations to get my money any more than I want the drunk on the corner to get it. The point isn't who get's it, it is that I shouldn't be forced to give it away under threat of force.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
I don't think elimination is the problem, but stopping the fraud within them is something to be addressed. I would only agree to complete elimination of such programs when they also completely eliminate corporate welfare.
How about if we reform the IRS to stop FORCING anyone to pay taxes?Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Oh, and they have reform the IRS to stop allowing the wealthy to avoid paying taxes.
I'm off home. Have a good weekend.
The wealthy pay more taxes than you ever will.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
Oh, and they have reform the IRS to stop allowing the wealthy to avoid paying taxes.whittsend wrote:
Works for me. I don't descriminate by size, I don't want corporations to get my money any more than I want the drunk on the corner to get it. The point isn't who get's it, it is that I shouldn't be forced to give it away under threat of force.Agent_Dung_Bomb wrote:
I don't think elimination is the problem, but stopping the fraud within them is something to be addressed. I would only agree to complete elimination of such programs when they also completely eliminate corporate welfare.
Another question..............Who do you ask for a job, the rich or the poor?.......( no I am not counting a democrat running for office )
I HAD to share this with you. What do you think?
Subject: Retired border patrol agent's letter...
This pretty well sums up the situation.....worth the read.
A retired border patrol agent's letter...
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating
about illegal aliens,
particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and
Honduran aliens.
1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship.
Americans are very
vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S.
citizen. Mexicans,
and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home
countries while
obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as
employment,
medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing
and free
education for their offspring. Their main attraction is
employment and their
loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and
subsidized by
middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits
of American
residence without paying the price.
2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens
are doing jobs
that Americans can't take and still support their families.
Illegal aliens
take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home,
share expenses and
send money to their home country. There are no jobs that
Americans won't do
for a decent wage.
3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home.
They are NOT
homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their
home countries.
They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the
more than 20
billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal
aliens. These
illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in
violation of the
law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and
deportation. Those who
brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and
risk on behalf of
their children.
4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal
aliens constitute
less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and
benefits for
lawful U.S. residents.
5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million
native born Americans.
While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by
immigrants (legal
immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this
planet that
was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal
aliens are not
immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful
immigrants every year
than the rest of the world combined.
7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are
white, brown,
black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Repu blicans,
Democrats,
Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The
so-called "Hispanic
vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the
Hispanic vote is a
dead end.
8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848
Mexicans have
resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed
German Spies to
operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II
Mexico allowed
the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold
War Mexico
allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack
on the Twin
Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico.
Today Mexican
school children are taught that the U.S. stole California,
Arizona, new Mexico
and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican
textbooks written
for their schoolchildren.
9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better
life, there are
6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those
live on less than
one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to
break the law
and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to
come to America
and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight.
Besides, there are
280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll
bet Bill Gates
and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat
be full? Since
when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another
nation?
10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie.
There are
hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives,
senior
citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would
gladly take jobs at
a decent wage.
11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about
wanting secure
borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting
people to sneak
into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal
aliens, senior
citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about
race that
entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take
the American
Dream without paying the price?
For about four decades American politicians have refused to
secure our borders
and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These
politicians have
been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has
resulted. This debt
will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has
already been riots
in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There
will be more. You,
as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who
have stolen
into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S.
citizens or to
offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The
interest will be
steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a
reckoning. Do
you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will
you bow to the
wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to
remain here?
There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this
year, again in 2008
and yet again in 2010.
We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators
and thieves.
thanks ooper232
Subject: Retired border patrol agent's letter...
This pretty well sums up the situation.....worth the read.
A retired border patrol agent's letter...
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating
about illegal aliens,
particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and
Honduran aliens.
1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship.
Americans are very
vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S.
citizen. Mexicans,
and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home
countries while
obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as
employment,
medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing
and free
education for their offspring. Their main attraction is
employment and their
loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and
subsidized by
middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits
of American
residence without paying the price.
2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens
are doing jobs
that Americans can't take and still support their families.
Illegal aliens
take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home,
share expenses and
send money to their home country. There are no jobs that
Americans won't do
for a decent wage.
3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home.
They are NOT
homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their
home countries.
They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the
more than 20
billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal
aliens. These
illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in
violation of the
law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and
deportation. Those who
brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and
risk on behalf of
their children.
4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal
aliens constitute
less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and
benefits for
lawful U.S. residents.
5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million
native born Americans.
While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by
immigrants (legal
immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this
planet that
was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal
aliens are not
immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful
immigrants every year
than the rest of the world combined.
7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are
white, brown,
black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Repu blicans,
Democrats,
Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The
so-called "Hispanic
vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the
Hispanic vote is a
dead end.
8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848
Mexicans have
resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed
German Spies to
operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II
Mexico allowed
the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold
War Mexico
allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack
on the Twin
Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico.
Today Mexican
school children are taught that the U.S. stole California,
Arizona, new Mexico
and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican
textbooks written
for their schoolchildren.
9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better
life, there are
6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those
live on less than
one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to
break the law
and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to
come to America
and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight.
Besides, there are
280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll
bet Bill Gates
and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat
be full? Since
when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another
nation?
10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie.
There are
hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives,
senior
citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would
gladly take jobs at
a decent wage.
11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about
wanting secure
borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting
people to sneak
into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal
aliens, senior
citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about
race that
entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take
the American
Dream without paying the price?
For about four decades American politicians have refused to
secure our borders
and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These
politicians have
been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has
resulted. This debt
will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has
already been riots
in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There
will be more. You,
as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who
have stolen
into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S.
citizens or to
offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The
interest will be
steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a
reckoning. Do
you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will
you bow to the
wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to
remain here?
There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this
year, again in 2008
and yet again in 2010.
We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators
and thieves.
thanks ooper232
+ to everything except the last statement - a bit too strong for me.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
I HAD to share this with you. What do you think?
Subject: Retired border patrol agent's letter...
This pretty well sums up the situation.....worth the read.
A retired border patrol agent's letter...
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating
about illegal aliens,
particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and
Honduran aliens.
1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship.
Americans are very
vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S.
citizen. Mexicans,
and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home
countries while
obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as
employment,
medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing
and free
education for their offspring. Their main attraction is
employment and their
loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and
subsidized by
middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits
of American
residence without paying the price.
2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens
are doing jobs
that Americans can't take and still support their families.
Illegal aliens
take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home,
share expenses and
send money to their home country. There are no jobs that
Americans won't do
for a decent wage.
3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home.
They are NOT
homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their
home countries.
They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the
more than 20
billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal
aliens. These
illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in
violation of the
law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and
deportation. Those who
brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and
risk on behalf of
their children.
4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal
aliens constitute
less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and
benefits for
lawful U.S. residents.
5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million
native born Americans.
While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by
immigrants (legal
immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this
planet that
was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal
aliens are not
immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful
immigrants every year
than the rest of the world combined.
7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are
white, brown,
black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Repu blicans,
Democrats,
Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The
so-called "Hispanic
vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the
Hispanic vote is a
dead end.
8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848
Mexicans have
resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed
German Spies to
operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II
Mexico allowed
the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold
War Mexico
allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack
on the Twin
Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico.
Today Mexican
school children are taught that the U.S. stole California,
Arizona, new Mexico
and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican
textbooks written
for their schoolchildren.
9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better
life, there are
6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those
live on less than
one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to
break the law
and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to
come to America
and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight.
Besides, there are
280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll
bet Bill Gates
and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat
be full? Since
when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another
nation?
10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie.
There are
hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives,
senior
citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would
gladly take jobs at
a decent wage.
11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about
wanting secure
borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting
people to sneak
into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal
aliens, senior
citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about
race that
entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take
the American
Dream without paying the price?
For about four decades American politicians have refused to
secure our borders
and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These
politicians have
been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has
resulted. This debt
will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has
already been riots
in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There
will be more. You,
as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who
have stolen
into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S.
citizens or to
offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The
interest will be
steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a
reckoning. Do
you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will
you bow to the
wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to
remain here?
There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this
year, again in 2008
and yet again in 2010.
We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators
and thieves.
Subject: Retired border patrol agent's letter...
This pretty well sums up the situation.....worth the read.
A retired border patrol agent's letter...
Dear Senator Frist:
There is a huge amount of propaganda and myths circulating
about illegal aliens,
particularly illegal Mexican, Salvadorian, Guatemalan and
Honduran aliens.
1. Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship.
Americans are very
vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S.
citizen. Mexicans,
and other nationalities want to remain citizens of their home
countries while
obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as
employment,
medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing
and free
education for their offspring. Their main attraction is
employment and their
loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and
subsidized by
middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits
of American
residence without paying the price.
2. There are no jobs that Americans won't do. Illegal aliens
are doing jobs
that Americans can't take and still support their families.
Illegal aliens
take low wage jobs, live dozens in a single residence home,
share expenses and
send money to their home country. There are no jobs that
Americans won't do
for a decent wage.
3. Every person who illegally entered this nation left a home.
They are NOT
homeless and they are NOT Americans. Some left jobs in their
home countries.
They come to send money to their real home as evidenced by the
more than 20
billion dollars sent out of the country each year by illegal
aliens. These
illegal aliens knowingly and willfully entered this nation in
violation of the
law and therefore assumed the risk of detection and
deportation. Those who
brought their alien children assumed the responsibility and
risk on behalf of
their children.
4. Illegal aliens are NOT critical to the economy. Illegal
aliens constitute
less than 5% of the workforce. However, they reduce wages and
benefits for
lawful U.S. residents.
5. This is NOT an immigrant nation. There are 280 million
native born Americans.
While it is true that this nation was settled and founded by
immigrants (legal
immigrants), it is also true that there is not a nation on this
planet that
was not settled by immigrants at one time or another.
6. The United States is welcoming to legal immigrants. Illegal
aliens are not
immigrants by definition. The U.S. accepts more lawful
immigrants every year
than the rest of the world combined.
7. There is no such thing as the "Hispanic vote". Hispanics are
white, brown,
black and every shade in between. Hispanics are Repu blicans,
Democrats,
Anarchists, Communists, Marxists and Independents. The
so-called "Hispanic
vote" is a myth. Pandering to illegal aliens to get the
Hispanic vote is a
dead end.
8. Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848
Mexicans have
resented the United States. During World War I Mexico allowed
German Spies to
operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S. During World War II
Mexico allowed
the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold
War Mexico
allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack
on the Twin
Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico.
Today Mexican
school children are taught that the U.S. stole California,
Arizona, new Mexico
and Texas. If you don't believe it, check out some Mexican
textbooks written
for their schoolchildren.
9. Although some illegal aliens enter this country for a better
life, there are
6 billion people on this planet. At least 1 billion of those
live on less than
one dollar a day. If wanting a better life is a valid excuse to
break the law
and sneak into America, then let's allow those one billion to
come to America
and we'll turn the USA into a Third World nation overnight.
Besides, there are
280 million native born Americans who want a better life. I'll
bet Bill Gates
and Donald Trump want a better life. When will the USA lifeboat
be full? Since
when is wanting a better life a good reason to trash another
nation?
10. There is a labor shortage in this country. This is a lie.
There are
hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of American housewives,
senior
citizens, students, unemployed and underemployed who would
gladly take jobs at
a decent wage.
11. It is racist to want secure borders. What is racist about
wanting secure
borders and a secure America? What is racist about not wanting
people to sneak
into America and steal benefits we have set aside for legal
aliens, senior
citizens, children and other legal residents? What is it about
race that
entitles people to violate our laws, steal identities, and take
the American
Dream without paying the price?
For about four decades American politicians have refused to
secure our borders
and look after the welfare of middle class Americans. These
politicians have
been of both parties. A huge debt to American society has
resulted. This debt
will be satisfied and the interest will be high. There has
already been riots
in the streets by illegal aliens and their supporters. There
will be more. You,
as a politician, have a choice to offend the illegal aliens who
have stolen
into this country and demanded the rights afforded to U.S.
citizens or to
offend those of us who are stakeholders in this country. The
interest will be
steep either way. There will be civil unrest. There will be a
reckoning. Do
you have the courage to do what is right for America? Or, will
you bow to the
wants and needs of those who don't even have the right to
remain here?
There will be a reckoning. It will come in November of this
year, again in 2008
and yet again in 2010.
We will not allow America to be stolen by third world agitators
and thieves.
Good find. Seems pretty much spot on to me.
Except for the fact you can't use any of these facts, or you will be deemed a racist.atlvolunteer wrote:
Good find. Seems pretty much spot on to me.
Or that its one opinion, just because the guy is a retired border guard doesn't mean he's an expert on illegal immigration. I would question some of the "facts" as you put it.Erkut.hv wrote:
Except for the fact you can't use any of these facts, or you will be deemed a racist.atlvolunteer wrote:
Good find. Seems pretty much spot on to me.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-05-12 09:08:24)
It is obviously his opinion, but imo it seems to be accurate for the most part. Do you see any "facts" that you think are inaccurate?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Or that its one opinion, just because the guy is a retired border guard doesn't mean he's an expert on illegal immigration. I would question some of the "facts" as you put it.Erkut.hv wrote:
Except for the fact you can't use any of these facts, or you will be deemed a racist.atlvolunteer wrote:
Good find. Seems pretty much spot on to me.
I sstand corrected. Points would've been a better term perhaps?KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Or that its one opinion, just because the guy is a retired border guard doesn't mean he's an expert on illegal immigration. I would question some of the "facts" as you put it.Erkut.hv wrote:
Except for the fact you can't use any of these facts, or you will be deemed a racist.atlvolunteer wrote:
Good find. Seems pretty much spot on to me.
Number 1- Is he a pyschologist who gets in the head of illegal immigrants to know their true purpose?atlvolunteer wrote:
It is obviously his opinion, but imo it seems to be accurate for the most part. Do you see any "facts" that you
think are inaccurate?
Number 4- While he does have a point about lowering wages, Illegals ARE critical to the economy, no doubt about that.
Number 5- Yes, there are around 275 million American-born citizens, but our nation was built by immigrants, industrialized by immigrants, so to say we are not an immigrant nation is ignorant.
Number 8- Mexicans hate Americans? Thats funny, because I know plenty of Mexicans (in Mexico) that treat me with dignity and respect. Yeah, I'm sure some Mexicans hate Americans, just like some Americans hate Mexicans. And as for cheers all across Mexico after 9/11, that just seems to be an inflammatory statement.
Don't get me wrong, there are statements in this letter that I agree with wholeheartedly, and I really don't want to debate the merits of this letter, I just don't see him as an authority on illegal immigration.
Last edited by KEN-JENNINGS (2006-05-12 09:24:22)
I would think he has dealt with enough to get a good idea.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Number 1- Is he a pyschologist who gets in the head of illegal immigrants to know their true purpose?
This is debatable. I wonder what the actual effects would be. 5% of the population is not really that much.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Number 4- While he does have a point about lowering wages, Illegals ARE critical to the economy, no doubt about that.
I don't really know much about this. I would be interested to know whether the accusations about them allowing our enemies to spy on us are true. Also, from the way a lot of the protesters in Cali have been acting, it would not surprise me if the part about us "stealing" Cali, etc. to be true.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Number 8- Mexicans hate Americans? Thats funny, because I know plenty of Mexicans (in Mexico) that treat me with dignity and respect. Yeah, I'm sure some Mexicans hate Americans, just like some Americans hate Mexicans. And as for cheers all across Mexico after 9/11, that just seems to be an inflammatory statement.
Being a border guard would give him more insight I would think, but you are correct in that he wouldn't be considered an authority.KEN-JENNINGS wrote:
Don't get me wrong, there are statements in this letter that I agree with wholeheartedly, and I really don't want to debate the merits of this letter, I just don't see him as an authority on illegal immigration.
Speaking as a Mexican, I know a majority of us would join a service and go to war in exchange for citizenship.Pubic wrote:
I actually think your government is being too generous to them. Make a tour in Iraq or Afghanistan an additional requirement in that amnesty thing and then see if they still want it!
Americans dont seem to see the big picture. When we go to war with Iran/Syria youll be glad so many illegals are here to join the service and fight along side "legal citizens". I know this opinion is far fwtched, but with recent developments in the ME its going to happen.