Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Drug use was pretty rampant as well. They used to give us piss tests right before everyone went on leave for Christmas, two years before we deployed 15 people pissed hot for coke and then the following year 11 pissed hot for weed and/or E. Then of course there were the multitude of alcoholics as well.
thats pretty typical

how big was your company
Two platoons plus HQ platoon. Probably around 100-120 people.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|6284|Vortex Ring State

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Drug use was pretty rampant as well. They used to give us piss tests right before everyone went on leave for Christmas, two years before we deployed 15 people pissed hot for coke and then the following year 11 pissed hot for weed and/or E. Then of course there were the multitude of alcoholics as well.
thats pretty typical

how big was your company
Two platoons plus HQ platoon. Probably around 100-120 people.
lower rates than some high schools.

blah so Galt,

do you believe that stuff some people say that fighting an asymmetric war puts more stress on soldiers, and so we have higher PTSD rates from Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan than from say WWII or Korea?
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Trotskygrad wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:


thats pretty typical

how big was your company
Two platoons plus HQ platoon. Probably around 100-120 people.
lower rates than some high schools.

blah so Galt,

do you believe that stuff some people say that fighting an asymmetric war puts more stress on soldiers, and so we have higher PTSD rates from Vietnam/Iraq/Afghanistan than from say WWII or Korea?
It puts more people in direct contact with the enemy than you'd normally experience. Whether these rear echelon troops are less likely to bear up vs a person who was trained as a front line soldier is really just unknowable. Does the not knowing wear on you? Absolutely. I got pretty fatalistic after the six month mark myself.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio
ya i saw this on netflix the other day.  meh.  the bad apples used war as an excuse to act like the retards they are.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

11 Bravo wrote:

ya i saw this on netflix the other day.  meh.  the bad apples used war as an excuse to act like the retards they are.
Exactly.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
rdx-fx
...
+955|6876

eleven bravo wrote:

some people should never have been in combat.
This.
I buried more friends in the last two years of high school, than I did in 8 years of military.

Getting a Top Secret+ security clearance, the investigators can do a pretty thorough job of combing through your past, your personality, and your moral/ethical makeup.  Large expenditure of manhours and money to get someone a TS+ clearance.

A similar level of rigor should be applied to personality screening of dedicated front-line infantry units (11B, Ranger, etc), but it is not.
SF, SEALs, and other SOCOM units get that level of personality screening, as part of initial assessment training and security clearance process.  The line grunts do not.  This is a disservice to them.

**

Part of the problem is generational, I think.  Too many of the young men in the military now are of two fragile narcissistic personality types.
(Note: these are the problem children at the bookends of the group, not the majority of the personnel)
 
One, is the coddled mama's boy, who joined the Army after playing a few too many rounds of MW2, and who has been overly sheltered, told he was unique and special, and generally given a narcissistic sheltered worldview. The civilian world would be enough of a shock to the system for such a kid. The experiences of a war zone are going to completely overwhelm his ability to keep things in perspective, cope with events, and generally keep his head screwed on straight.

Two, is the borderline personality, with no sense of limits, no sense of empathy, and no concern for other people.  Could be former gangbangers, could be whitebread middle class brats who were never taught respect for others.  If they see a warzone as acceptable behavior, and get a "kick" out of it, they are going to bring that home - they truly do not give a damn about anyone or anything.

Too many brats with no moral compass, no empathy for others, and so oversheltered throughout their lives that they have absolutely no capacity to deal with real adversity.  This is what we are growing, here under the American bubble of our Walmart/McDonalds dreamland. And anyone is surprised when these children come back looking like toys run over by a tank?

**

A personal pet theory;
When one is under sleep deprivation, exacerbated by the effects of sleeping pills, antidepressants, and other psychotropic drugs - you're in a semi-hypnotic state, your mental defenses aren't completely there, and any jarringly tragic event is going to stick deeper in your mind, without the benefit of your more conscious mind's perspective and filtering.  In other words, wandering around a battlefield in a semi-hypnotic state is not good for one's long term mental health.  Shit will get stuck in your head like that.  Like a song stuck in your head, or a hypnotic suggestion, but nasty nightmarish horrible shit that pulls at you in a personal way.

When a person is well rested, completely awake, and has a stable personality - they are much more "grounded", and a tragic event is going to be easier for them to keep in perspective.

When one is overtired, uncertain, on psychotropic drugs, their normal perspective isn't there.  They're running around "half zombied", operating on "training" and "muscle memory".  They are thinking, yes - but their normal mental barriers aren't completely up.  They just "compartmentalize" those horrific scenes, where they can (but not always do) resurface later as PTSD or flashbacks or 'twitches'.  There just isn't time to ponder topics like 'life, death, killing, war, morality, justice' when someone is trying to kill you.

There are, in my opinion, a few key traits needed for a healthy soldier (or medical civilians)
  • In an emergency, "Do what needs to be done right now. Twitch, cry, grieve, drink, shake, smoke later." Don't forget the later
  • Think about what you may have to do long before you do it. After you pull the trigger, and you can't take it back, is not the time to be asking "God, what have I done?".  Mo-tard hoorah brainwashing may get someone to pull a trigger - but it won't keep their head on straight if they have no real perspective.
  • Need to be rational, well grounded, stable personalities.  Kind of people that adversity just "rolls off their backs, like water off a duck".  Not the psychotic sociopaths that have no perception of morality or ethics. 
  • Need to be capable of dialing up the violence when needed, and the self-control to stick within orders or ROE.  Well trained guard dog Rottweilers, not slobbering crazy pit dogs.
  • Perspective.  Always keep perspective.  If you can't get perspective on something, keep working on it.  Some shit doesn't have a Why, and has to be filed under It Just Is.  Don't have to like it, but have to accept it to keep your sanity.The whole "grant me the serenity to accept the things I can't change, courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference"  mantra.


11 Bravo wrote:

the bad apples used war as an excuse to act like the retards they are.
And this.
Always the broken people that look at wars as an excuse to go somewhere where they think their sociopathic fantasies can be fulfilled without anyone noticing.
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5758|Ventura, California
A good read from RDX as always.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|6284|Vortex Ring State

rdx-fx wrote:

One, is the coddled mama's boy, who joined the Army after playing a few too many rounds of MW2, and who has been overly sheltered, told he was unique and special, and generally given a narcissistic sheltered worldview. The civilian world would be enough of a shock to the system for such a kid. The experiences of a war zone are going to completely overwhelm his ability to keep things in perspective, cope with events, and generally keep his head screwed on straight.
was talking to s3v3n about this a while ago

s3v3n wrote:

I do agree, I noticed when I was rotating out of the Corps I noticed the young Marines that were coming in thought of it as a big joke and a way to pay for college and that ultimately War was like on TV and in video games.
seems like the consensus is not very good.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6876

Trotskygrad wrote:

was talking to s3v3n about this a while ago

seems like the consensus is not very good.
It's generally easy to handle success and easy victories.
It shows what a person is really made of when you're getting your ass kicked.

Too many just don't have the ability to dig down deep, endure whatever shit is thrown at them, and continue mission.
And it's not completely their fault, either.
It's a lack of life experience, it's too much time in front of the PC, it's a culture of instant gratification, it's lazy parenting, it's this McDonalds/Walmart dreamland existence we've built up in America.

It is not the situation you find yourself in, it is how you handle it that defines you.

Last edited by rdx-fx (2010-08-28 13:38:52)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

rdx-fx wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

was talking to s3v3n about this a while ago

seems like the consensus is not very good.
It's generally easy to handle success and easy victories.
It shows what a person is really made of when you're getting your ass kicked.

Too many just don't have the ability to dig down deep, endure whatever shit is thrown at them, and continue mission.
And it's not completely their fault, either.
It's a lack of life experience, it's too much time in front of the PC, it's a culture of instant gratification, it's lazy parenting, it's this McDonalds/Walmart dreamland existence we've built up in America.

It is not the situation you find yourself in, it is how you handle it that defines you.
Good job stereotyping an entire generation... How old are you? I'm sure there is plenty that could be said to disparage you based on generalities associated with your generation.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

Every generation before you thinks your generation is too soft.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Phrozenbot wrote:

Every generation before you thinks your generation is too soft.
I had to walk ten miles in the snow uphill both ways to get to school every day when I was your age.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
jord
Member
+2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

Every generation before you thinks your generation is too soft.
I had to walk ten miles in the snow uphill both ways to get to school every day when I was your age.
His point still stands. I hope I don't carry it on though, "back in my day" ugh.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6876

Trotskygrad wrote:

was talking to s3v3n about this a while ago

seems like the consensus is not very good.

rdx-fx wrote:

It's generally easy to handle success and easy victories.
It shows what a person is really made of when you're getting your ass kicked.

Too many just don't have the ability to dig down deep, endure whatever shit is thrown at them, and continue mission.
And it's not completely their fault, either.
It's a lack of life experience, it's too much time in front of the PC, it's a culture of instant gratification, it's lazy parenting, it's this McDonalds/Walmart dreamland existence we've built up in America.

It is not the situation you find yourself in, it is how you handle it that defines you.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Good job stereotyping an entire generation... How old are you? I'm sure there is plenty that could be said to disparage you based on generalities associated with your generation.
Galt, two points.

1) Fuck off and learn to read.  Instead of skimming and assuming, try reading and comprehension.  Jackass.

2) Nowhere in the post you quoted did I direct my commentary at any specific generation.  Nor did I claim it applied to a majority of people.
"Too many" was the phrase used.  Not all, not a majority, too many.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5522|Cleveland, Ohio

jord wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Phrozenbot wrote:

Every generation before you thinks your generation is too soft.
I had to walk ten miles in the snow uphill both ways to get to school every day when I was your age.
His point still stands. I hope I don't carry it on though, "back in my day" ugh.
whats wrong with that?  things change.  back in my day we didnt have the internet.  thats a fact.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

rdx-fx wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

was talking to s3v3n about this a while ago

seems like the consensus is not very good.

rdx-fx wrote:

It's generally easy to handle success and easy victories.
It shows what a person is really made of when you're getting your ass kicked.

Too many just don't have the ability to dig down deep, endure whatever shit is thrown at them, and continue mission.
And it's not completely their fault, either.
It's a lack of life experience, it's too much time in front of the PC, it's a culture of instant gratification, it's lazy parenting, it's this McDonalds/Walmart dreamland existence we've built up in America.

It is not the situation you find yourself in, it is how you handle it that defines you.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Good job stereotyping an entire generation... How old are you? I'm sure there is plenty that could be said to disparage you based on generalities associated with your generation.
Galt, two points.

1) Fuck off and learn to read.  Instead of skimming and assuming, try reading and comprehension.  Jackass.

2) Nowhere in the post you quoted did I direct my commentary at any specific generation.  Nor did I claim it applied to a majority of people.
"Too many" was the phrase used.  Not all, not a majority, too many.
Really? So exactly how many generations have grown up playing video games now.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|6284|Vortex Ring State
pssh, my point was that the consensus was that too many people are joining the armed forces because they think it looks cool and for the pay, and that these people have a skewed view of what war is actually like (due to Games, TV, whatever).

Point is that these people probably will have less respect (s3v3n mentioned that they saw it as a big joke) for their DIs and the formalities in the Corps, and probably are less prepared for the realities of combat, so they will probably crack easier.

there's a lot of assumptions being made here, correct me if I'm wrong
Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

11 Bravo wrote:

jord wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I had to walk ten miles in the snow uphill both ways to get to school every day when I was your age.
His point still stands. I hope I don't carry it on though, "back in my day" ugh.
whats wrong with that?  things change.  back in my day we didnt have the internet.  thats a fact.
There isn't anything wrong with that necessarily, however, there is irony in rdx-fx's statement. Our generation is being viewed as being somewhat weaker and I'm sure his was as well. What do you blame when there wasn't video games and call of duty.

Last edited by Phrozenbot (2010-08-28 15:55:00)

Phrozenbot
Member
+632|6900|do not disturb

Trotskygrad wrote:

pssh, my point was that the consensus was that too many people are joining the armed forces because they think it looks cool and for the pay, and that these people have a skewed view of what war is actually like (due to Games, TV, whatever).

Point is that these people probably will have less respect (s3v3n mentioned that they saw it as a big joke) for their DIs and the formalities in the Corps, and probably are less prepared for the realities of combat, so they will probably crack easier.

there's a lot of assumptions being made here, correct me if I'm wrong
lol try having no respect for your DI and see what happens. Look at them the wrong way and get IT.
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|6284|Vortex Ring State

Phrozenbot wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

jord wrote:


His point still stands. I hope I don't carry it on though, "back in my day" ugh.
whats wrong with that?  things change.  back in my day we didnt have the internet.  thats a fact.
There isn't anything wrong with that necessarily, however, there is irony in rdx-fx's statement. Our generation is being viewed as being somewhat weaker and I'm sure his was as well. What do you blame when there wasn't video games and call of duty.
Comic books and them damn transistor radios

all them darn kids do is sit around the radio and listen

(it's really easy)

sure you can quote proliferation statistics on radios vs. consoles or something like that

but really?

I don't really think comic books really undermined the realities of war AS MUCH as video games because you can't run around and actually think your good at firefights just by reading a comic book.
rdx-fx
...
+955|6876

rdx-fx wrote:

[...]it's too much time in front of the PC[...]

JohnG@lt wrote:

Really? So exactly how many generations have grown up playing video games now.
Again;
1) Fuck off and learn to read.  Instead of skimming and assuming, try reading and comprehension.  Jackass.

Nothing to do with my generation versus their generation again.

I really don't give a shit how much you wish I was making this a "In my day, we walked uphill both ways in the snow" thing.  I am not.

Edit:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Really? So exactly how many generations have grown up playing video games now.
My generation was the first to grow up with video games, BTW

Last edited by rdx-fx (2010-08-28 16:03:22)

Trotskygrad
бля
+354|6284|Vortex Ring State

Phrozenbot wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

pssh, my point was that the consensus was that too many people are joining the armed forces because they think it looks cool and for the pay, and that these people have a skewed view of what war is actually like (due to Games, TV, whatever).

Point is that these people probably will have less respect (s3v3n mentioned that they saw it as a big joke) for their DIs and the formalities in the Corps, and probably are less prepared for the realities of combat, so they will probably crack easier.

there's a lot of assumptions being made here, correct me if I'm wrong
lol try having no respect for your DI and see what happens. Look at them the wrong way and get IT.
like after they've gone through boot camp

most kids are smart enough to suck it up and behave infront of the DI, but do they really internalize the values the DI is trying to teach?

No one really knows.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

Trotskygrad wrote:

pssh, my point was that the consensus was that too many people are joining the armed forces because they think it looks cool and for the pay, and that these people have a skewed view of what war is actually like (due to Games, TV, whatever).

Point is that these people probably will have less respect (s3v3n mentioned that they saw it as a big joke) for their DIs and the formalities in the Corps, and probably are less prepared for the realities of combat, so they will probably crack easier.

there's a lot of assumptions being made here, correct me if I'm wrong
I fail to see how it is any different from previous generations that grew up on Howdie Doodie and John Wayne movies. I'd say kids are MORE prepared now than they were in the past, especially with the ridiculously graphic movies that have come out over the past twenty years. Just really dumb generalizations throughout the second half of this thread.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
jord
Member
+2,382|6963|The North, beyond the wall.

11 Bravo wrote:

jord wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


I had to walk ten miles in the snow uphill both ways to get to school every day when I was your age.
His point still stands. I hope I don't carry it on though, "back in my day" ugh.
whats wrong with that?  things change.  back in my day we didnt have the internet.  thats a fact.
Its a bit ironic because someone said it to you, you're saying it to me, and ill see it to pace. Its generic, technology evolves and the life of humans will keep getting easier and easier until people can work from their beds and do whatever they want. Its tedious.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

rdx-fx wrote:

rdx-fx wrote:

[...]it's too much time in front of the PC[...]

JohnG@lt wrote:

Really? So exactly how many generations have grown up playing video games now.
Again;
1) Fuck off and learn to read.  Instead of skimming and assuming, try reading and comprehension.  Jackass.

Nothing to do with my generation versus their generation again.

I really don't give a shit how much you wish I was making this a "In my day, we walked uphill both ways in the snow" thing.  I am not.
It's not my fault that you're an old retard glorifying his own childhood while putting down the generation in front of him. It's old hat. Your parents denigrated your generation, said they were soft because they didn't have to live through the Depression, you proved them right by rebelling, fucking up the country, incurring massive debt that you're passing onto my generation and my kids generation, and whining about how your taxes are too high. Am I hitting the mark here? People call my generation the 'selfish generation' and all I can do is

Edit - Ahh, so you're a child of the 70s. That awkward in between stage between full blown hippiehood and the weird 80s. Do you miss your tye-dye, bell bottoms and pompadour?

Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-08-28 16:07:41)

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

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