So how do we stop Americans from buying drugs?
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
you can't.-Sh1fty- wrote:
So how do we stop Americans from buying drugs?
The only thing the government could do is produce and sell the drugs even cheaper than the mexicans and thereby cut off the flow of dollars to the cartels.
a percentage of the population will always be in search of a high. Until this reality is acknowledged politically, drugs will always be a source of crime and poverty. In this country, at least, tolerance is perceived, confused as encouragement.
Last edited by Reciprocity (2010-08-23 00:42:52)
you can't ever stop anyone from buying drugs, period.-Sh1fty- wrote:
So how do we stop Americans from buying drugs?
nothing short of a totalitarian big-brother state will prevent personal use.
Last edited by Uzique (2010-08-23 00:32:51)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Education, buying animal fur and blood diamonds has become unacceptable, buying cartel cocaine should too.-Sh1fty- wrote:
So how do we stop Americans from buying drugs?
Fuck Israel
and just where there have been fashion and jewelry substitutes for the aforementioned, to fill the gap in demand...Dilbert_X wrote:
Education, buying animal fur and blood diamonds has become unacceptable, buying cartel cocaine should too.-Sh1fty- wrote:
So how do we stop Americans from buying drugs?
... so we will get some form of government-produced or synthesized-chemical cocaine
by the way, fyi dilbert the main drug produced and fought-over in mexico is marijuana, not coke.
Last edited by Uzique (2010-08-23 01:46:59)
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
And systemic corruption, economic disparity, weak infrastructure, declining oil revenue, cripplingly limited natural resources (water) and noncompetitive industrial base (in the battle to make cheap things cheaper, China stomps Mexico)Uzique wrote:
shifty i think you're missing the point a little in your rudimentary understanding of mexican history...
american demand for their drugs is what is fueling their current 'crisis'.
The drug cartels flourish in Mexico, because of the culture of corruption there.
The drugs themselves could come from anywhere.
And bribes are expected in that culture.
Everything is negotiable, everything can be made to move a little faster with a little money in the right hands.
In a ruling culture where moral relativity is the norm, it is improbable that any meaningful change will take place simply because it is "the right thing to do"
Last edited by rdx-fx (2010-08-23 02:26:59)
and in the land of teh free and the brave it's not that way, huh?rdx-fx wrote:
And bribes are expected in that culture.
Everything is negotiable, everything can be made to move a little faster with a little money in the right hands.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Yes, it will look exactly the sameUzique wrote:
and just where there have been fashion and jewelry substitutes for the aforementioned, to fill the gap in demand...Dilbert_X wrote:
Education, buying animal fur and blood diamonds has become unacceptable, buying cartel cocaine should too.-Sh1fty- wrote:
So how do we stop Americans from buying drugs?
... so we will get some form of government-produced or synthesized-chemical cocaine
Pretty sure by value its not marijuana.by the way, fyi dilbert the main drug produced and fought-over in mexico is marijuana, not coke.
Fuck Israel
there is no major cocaine production in mexico. by value and by quantity it's marijuana and methamphetamine for the redneck clientele.Dilbert_X wrote:
Yes, it will look exactly the sameUzique wrote:
and just where there have been fashion and jewelry substitutes for the aforementioned, to fill the gap in demand...Dilbert_X wrote:
Education, buying animal fur and blood diamonds has become unacceptable, buying cartel cocaine should too.
... so we will get some form of government-produced or synthesized-chemical cocaine
Pretty sure by value its not marijuana.by the way, fyi dilbert the main drug produced and fought-over in mexico is marijuana, not coke.
it'll look the same and it'll be largely the same, too. the alkaloid base can be synthesized-- or have very similar chemicals. chemistry is a wonderful thing in this modern age-- look at the massive influx of 'research chemicals' that the law cannot keep up with. mephedrone, methylone, napyrone... all of this stuff is just a synthetic mixture of speed and MDMA. you change one molecule and does the exact same thing, for all intensive purposes-- it may metabolize differently, it may have a different half-life, and it may have slightly different side effects. but, to the punter, it'll be exactly the same.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Legalising is not the easy solution. I think the drugs these cartels/militants around the world deal in is not your simple weed grown in a field somewhere. In the case of Mexico I think it's mostly cocaine and for the Taliban it's heroin/opium. These aren't drugs you can just legalise on a whim in order to tackle the supply, it's not like weed where there isn't usually many serious consequences of using it and legalising it would bring alot of benefits.
edit: You guys are already talking about that, I think in Mexico the gangs are fighting each other for control of cocaine trade routes into the US and also the government cos drugs are bad. They don't do much growing of cocaine in Mexico but the trade routes are invaluable
edit: You guys are already talking about that, I think in Mexico the gangs are fighting each other for control of cocaine trade routes into the US and also the government cos drugs are bad. They don't do much growing of cocaine in Mexico but the trade routes are invaluable
Last edited by Mekstizzle (2010-08-23 05:35:40)
you're wrong, as ive said 3 times already in this thread.Mekstizzle wrote:
Legalising is not the easy solution. I think the drugs these cartels/militants around the world deal in is not your simple weed grown in a field somewhere. In the case of Mexico I think it's mostly cocaine and for the Taliban it's heroin/opium. These aren't drugs you can just legalise on a whim in order to tackle the supply, it's not like weed where there isn't usually many serious consequences of using it and legalising it would bring alot of benefits.
mexico is the top producer of weed and methamphetamine. cocaine has nothing to do with mexico other than a route for trafficking.
colombia and bolivia are states more often associated with cocaine production on a large-scale.
and compare the "serious consequences" to narco-states... i'll take the legal "consequences", ta.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
It's wiki but there's sources so w/e, it's everything, production, supply routes
It's harder than simply legalising weed to solve the problem, plus that's the only drug I can see as making sense to legalise... the rest (meth, cocaine, heroin and such), they're abit much to have as legal.Mexico, a major drug producing and transit country, is the main foreign supplier of cannabis and a major supplier of methamphetamine to the United States.[13] Although Mexico accounts for only a small share of worldwide heroin production, it supplies a large share of the heroin distributed in the United States.[13][17] Drug cartels in Mexico control approximately 70% of the foreign narcotics that flow into the United States.[18]
The US State Department estimates that 90% of cocaine entering the United States transits Mexico, with Colombia being the main cocaine producer[19]—and that wholesale of illicit drug sale earnings estimates range from $13.6 billion to $48.4 billion annually.[13][20] Mexican drug traffickers increasingly smuggle money back into Mexico in cars and trucks, likely due to the effectiveness of U.S. efforts at monitoring electronic money transfers.[21]
You are looking at the future of Mexico, unless there is a truce or last-man standing, this shit will continue on.
... why?
most of the social problems associated with these drugs stems from their 'illegal' status. it's a personal right and responsibility.
all the money for the mexican cartels are in selling weed and meth to americans. cocaine transit is not what they're fighting over. stop trying to spin it.
most of the social problems associated with these drugs stems from their 'illegal' status. it's a personal right and responsibility.
all the money for the mexican cartels are in selling weed and meth to americans. cocaine transit is not what they're fighting over. stop trying to spin it.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Mexico had always been a shithole and always will be. Nothing the US can or should do. Let them deal with their own problems.
I've never tried meth, but I haven't heard much good from it from those who have. It doesn't seem like something that would be harmless or make sense to legalise in the same way weed would, which everyone knows about its illegal status making things stupid.
the thing is, when people actually have choice... drugs like meth will drop off the radar.Mekstizzle wrote:
I've never tried meth, but I haven't heard much good from it from those who have. It doesn't seem like something that would be harmless or make sense to legalise in the same way weed would, which everyone knows about its illegal status making things stupid.
it's a drug taken out of economic-poverty or supply restrictions, not out of absolute preference. it's a cheap hit.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Meth is in the big 3 nobody with a choice of highs would chose to use.
My dads going mehico in 5 weeks, though he's too cheap to bribe anyone.
My dads going mehico in 5 weeks, though he's too cheap to bribe anyone.
I bet they're making a ton of money transiting cocaine.Uzique wrote:
all the money for the mexican cartels are in selling weed and meth to americans. cocaine transit is not what they're fighting over. stop trying to spin it.
Fuck Israel
Agreed.rdx-fx wrote:
Do not send the US military to help Mexico.
If we so much as step foot in Mexico, then in the eyes of the Mexicans all of their problems of the last 30 years will be El Gringo's fault.
We've got our own problems to sort out.
Fuck off, we're closed.
yes but the drug cartels aren't fighting and killing one another over the transit-routes.Dilbert_X wrote:
I bet they're making a ton of money transiting cocaine.Uzique wrote:
all the money for the mexican cartels are in selling weed and meth to americans. cocaine transit is not what they're fighting over. stop trying to spin it.
most of the biggest cartels, e.g. the sinaloa cartel, fight for control of geographical areas of mexico that are nowhere near the colombian trade routes.
mexico is basically the weed and methamphetamine factory for all of america. that's a LOT of business. cocaine money mainly stays in colombian hands, in the pockets of colombian drug-lords. the mexican drug cartels are profiting off their own produce, not the safe transit of somebody else's.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
The Mexicans will be taking a fat cut for safe transit, no question about that.
It would be interesting to know what would have happened if US companies hadn't effectively moved all their manufacturing from Mexico to China.
It would be interesting to know what would have happened if US companies hadn't effectively moved all their manufacturing from Mexico to China.
Fuck Israel
We would be a lot less wealthy in terms of purchasing power. The level of productivity that China provides us for imports is far beyond Mexico's capabilities.Dilbert_X wrote:
The Mexicans will be taking a fat cut for safe transit, no question about that.
It would be interesting to know what would have happened if US companies hadn't effectively moved all their manufacturing from Mexico to China.
While China is still very corrupt, the kind of corruption they have is more "business-friendly" than the kind most prevalent in Mexico.
Mexico is moving towards failed state status with the instability their government is currently facing. It's as if the cartels run sections of Mexico rather than their government.
The Chinese government has both the will and the means to crush any opposing forces to its authority -- something the Mexican government is lacking in both respects.
the mexican government lacks any authority or power because it knows as well as the cartels that the chief economic export for mexico right now is DRUGS. the country has nothing else going for it: it has been used by america economically for various purposes and now tossed aside and undercut in every commodity and foodstuff by china/asia. mexico's chief asset right now is its huge drug supply and the already in place system of trading and profiteering. because of the illegality, though, all of the control of that wealth and cash-flow is in the hands of crooks and criminals, rather than the government and their budget. the entire country will suffer for the illogical obstinacy of keeping the drug-trade illegalised and thus in the hands of the underworld.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/ma … rs-cartelsguardian wrote:
Much of the violence has been between the Sinaloa cartel, led by the country's most famous trafficker, Joaquín "El Chapo" Guzmán, and rivals vying for control of cocaine trafficking corridors across Mexico. The killing is also associated with growing cartel interest in other crime, from the domestic drugs market to kidnapping, arms dealing and people smuggling.
but also an article about how weed is playing a major role:
npr wrote:
But Calderon's war is not just about cocaine, heroin and other "hard" drugs. Mexican troops are also fighting gun battles to stop the trafficking of marijuana — the weed that might be legalized later this year across the border in California.
As Mexico's biggest agricultural export, marijuana generates billions of dollars in revenues each year for the brutal narcotics cartels. By some estimates, it is the most profitable product for the Mexican drug gangs.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … =126978142Marijuana and cocaine are the two largest sources of revenue for the cartels, generating billions of dollars in illicit profits each year. But some analysts say marijuana may be the cartels' greatest source of cash in part because the Mexican gangs control the production, trafficking and distribution of the drug. The cocaine they move has a higher street value, but they initially have to buy it from the Colombians.
It's not logical to dismiss cocaine as an afterthought in this Mexican drug war, but I'll accept that weed is playing a huge role. I've just mostly thought yanks get their weed grown from the local douche/ig/phish fans who grow it in lots and sheds and shit rather than stuff all the way from Mexico. California needs to legalise weed and get proper sources for it and see if there's any noticeable impact.