BF2S Forums How to fly: Some tips

Hey zenmaster, we got the same joystick, allthough i binded different keys to the buttons, the priciple is the same. You re right, aviators need a good joystick so guys dont buy the cheap ones, save your money for a good joystick.

+1 for your awsome guide.

Really nice work Zenmaster.  You deserve a +2 for all that work.  I'm mostly a ground pounder, but I may take up a little flying after reviewing your guide.

Great guide, I agree with the grand majority of stuff, but felt there needed to be some mention of things I disagree with or at least feel the need to add onto.

Combat: Jet vs. Jet

Never cut your throttle. Airspeed is your lifeline, and it is not worth wasting afterburners to get back up to speed.

Generally speaking, very true. However, sometimes it is a necessity, but must be properly prepared for, otherwise it's a death sentence. You only really want to drop throttle as an evasive maneuver against a jet with superior maneuverability, and usually only when you have no flares to fall back on. Basically, the only times I've found it useful is against a jet with superior maneuverability, which is tailing you.

The idea is to break hard in one direction with afterburners (to lead them with the trails), break back hard in the other direction with afterburners, then drop off afterburners, reverse throttle and pull hard the other direction again. What happens is, they follow you through the 2 hard turns via your trail, but the non-afterburner turn gets a slower reaction, meaning that you are dropping throttle when you are just outside their view, so they don't see it coming. You keep to your turn and we can assume they will follow, but by the time they get you back into view, you are rapidly dropping speed, and by the time they can get behind you again, they've overpassed you. It's important to use the external views when executing this maneuver, so you can know when to expect they will overtake you, so you can know when to put the throttle back on and engage. Generally speaking, this is something you will pull against a J-10 while in an F-35B, and even if you manage to get behind them and engage, more than likely your missiles will all miss anyways, but it can be used to evade without the need to just completely bail out of the jet. A good J-10 pilot cannot be outmaneuvered when flying the F-35B, but they can be tricked.

Utilize your MG’s vs. enemy jets flying straight/slowly in combination with rockets. MG’s in turns are pretty useless except to alert the enemy of your presence. Sometimes you can get some good shots off, but you have to fire ahead (read turn faster) then your opponent to do this in a turn. You should always use your MGs if you can though, just be aware they won’t do damage unless you get good shots in. The F35 being a slow tub, really has a hard time firing a head of a jet it can’t even keep up with. That said, use your MGs wisely so you don’t alert everyone of your presence with bad shots, but lace your opponents with fire when you have a good chance of success.

An addendum to this... I agree that MGs are generally useless in the "chasing the tail" dogfight, except in certain situations. Tailing an enemy jet even for 5-10 seconds, you can get an idea of what maneuvers they like to use. The split-S, or any other vertical evasive maneuver is great to use the MGs on. If your jet can pull up harder and faster than the enemy jet, be it just a superior jet for maneuverability, or by using afterburners, you can get ample lead on your MGs to rip them in half. Any vertical loop maneuver leaves you following a steady path up, limited by your ability to pull up. An enemy just just has to know what to expect from your plane, lead you while you pull up into your loop or half-loop, and let the MGs go. This is why I only use vertical loop maneuvers when in a superior jet like the J-10, and when I have afterburners to guarantee I can't get caught in enemy MG fire. Yes, vertical loops are great for avoiding AA fire (unless you are in an F-35B), but are offer up an extremely predictable flight path that any good pilot with more maneuverability can take advantage of. They are more or less useless though in horizontal loops, because it is easy to bank left or right in such a loop when your altitute is not rapidly changing. (and thus you're not rapidly losing control)

Do not fly straight at an enemy chopper or away from one. You are quite easily TV’ed by any good gunner. A fast barrel roll is enough to evade them on the way by while you plan your next attack angle.

Beause of the dumb-fire missile techniques you mentioned, I'd have to disagree. You have to be very unlucky to be TV'd by an enemy chopper, unless you really just come back at them 8 different times and get them ample opportunities to set up a shot. I for one, in all my hours in the sky, have never been TV'd, and never TV'd an enemy jet, piloted competently. If they are doing a 180 and coming back at you, by the time they level out, you have about 1 second or less to line up a shot, and by that time, they are probably too close to take the shot. The day I get TV'd in the air, is the day I quit playing BF2. And to be TV'd by a chopper after flying away... well, why would you ever stay completely level, never turning, after flying past anything?

Do not loose rockets into an enemy jet that is chasing a friendly jet. Rather, use Joy2Key to spot the enemy jet for your ally so he knows he is being followed. If your ally gets shot down, then feel free to waste the enemy.

Very situational, I would not say never do this. It depends on what plane you are using, what plane you are chasing, and whether or not the enemy plane has used it's flares. If I am in a J-10, following an F-35, chasing a friendly plane.. I'll get lock, wait for a second to see if they drop flares, and fire off 1 rocket. By the time that rocket impacts or would have, you'll know if they have flares. If they don't, fire the second missile and finish the job. If they do, re-lock then finish the job.

However, if you are in an F-35B, chasing a J-10, chasing a friendly plane, more than likely, no matter when you shoot your missiles, they will most likely miss, and when they do, flares or not, they'll have a much more likely chance to hit the friendly jet. In that situation, there is little you can do but keep following and wait for them to break off/destroy the friendly, or just break off yourself and find something else to do.

Combat: Fighter Jets and Bombing

Note: Don’t use single bomb mode in the bomber, it is @#$@ annoying!

I prefer it. It gives me 2 bombing runs in the bomber, as opposed to 1 before I have to return to rearm. 1 bomb can still kill 5 infantry, and tapping the alternate fire-key twice to drop the full load is no big deal as long as you expect it, and account for the slight delay.

Bombing Priorities

I'd say this is also something that varies a lot. If I'm on wake, and I'm patrolling the area between a friendly flag and enemy flag, I'll keep in mind the flags. If the USMC has the beach and southwest-most flag, and I have to choose between a buggy, a tank and a small group of infantry, I'll usually go for the buggy. That buggy is most likely to break through the lines and get to the airfield, posing a threat to my ability to rearm, and respawn if necessary, so that will be my top priority. Even if an AA turret is armed, so long as I have flares ready, I'll go after the buggy. I know the tank won't pose a threat to capping that airfield flag before the buggy can, nor the troops, so the buggy it is. After that, the AA, then the tank, then the infantry. If however they only have the southwest-most flag, and the flag being threatened is the beach, I'll go for the tank instead of the buggy, as most likely the infantry between the beach and the airfield will be able to stop the buggy in time. There is a lot of information you have to process basically instantly, when choosing targets. You have to keep in mind what you have to bomb, what you don't. What you can guarantee to kill on the first pass, what you can't. Maybe that tank is guarded by some trees that might stop your second bomb from landing, so maybe you should MG the buggy instead, then deal with the tank from a different side/angle of attack.

There is no static list of what priority you take on bombing. Some targets are best left un-bombed because your bombs are needed elsewhere, but some targets should be attacked and killed with MGs first, before you bomb anything. It varies from map to map, situation to situation, based on who has what flag, what targets are available, how many bombs you have left, how long it will take to rearm, how long it will take to totally rearm, what other threats  you might have (an enemy jet), and generally what might be best to spend your time on. It all comes from experience, and takes time to develop good judgement on what to attack, and how to attack it. Also, you have to weigh the risks of friendly damage before deciding what to do, and how to do it. Bombing is a very fine art, as is using a plane in general, and it takes a lot of experience and quick decision making skills, as well as quick reaction times and control over the plane, which is all reflected in how you choose to go about bombing, or attacking in general.

Next, if my ground radar gives me nothing, and my skies are still clear, I will start strafing runs on neutral flags, and common spawn points of nearby enemy flags. I will not base rape the enemy airfield unless they are being sassy bitches and spawn camping us all game.

Some maps you really have no choice, unless you just want to get shot down. On wake, if you want a chance at staying alive as USMC, if all J-10s are down and the PLA holds the airfield, you have no better priority than raping the J-10 spawn and nearby AA. This guarantees you can stay in the air, as the only threat is AA, and gives the friendly force an easier time getting on-land, staying on land, and taking more flags, specifically the airfield. The J-10 is a HUGE threat on Wake, and the best way to deal with it, is to never let it take off in the first place. An F-35B, no matter how good the pilot, cannot handle 1, much less 2 good J-10 pilots. The lynchpin in getting the PLA on lockdown on Wake, depends on being able to ground the J-10s and keep them grounded. Nothing is of higher priority to an F-35B pilot.

Bombing Stationary AA

Like I said already, MG AA first if you suspect someone is on it or near it (ground radar will show if someone is actually on it, but sometimes it glitches out and shows a hot AA site when nobody is there all game long). If you don’t receive a kill right away (~20 rounds of MG) then release a bomb and it will get the bastard.

You also need to weigh the cost of using a bomb (or two) on an AA turret to kill 1 infantry. Destroying an AA turret with MGs take 2 seconds of constant fire, and it's down for a good 20-30 seconds. If that infantry just wants to stand around and wait for the AA to respawn, great! You'll just kill it again as soon as it respawns. I'd have to argue that there is rarely ever a reason to bomb an AA turret, unless you just don't have the altitude or angle of attack to destroy the turret with MGs.

Jeeps can be tricky to bomb, but the easiest method is the conventional one, but also consider their fast velocity and accommodate for that in earlier releases if the vehicle is heading towards you, or bombing further ahead of the vehicle if it is traveling away from you.

Same as AA turretts, there is rarely a reason to ever bomb a jeep, unless you just don't have the option of MGing it, and can't afford the time to take a second pass to setup an MG kill.

Combat: Bombers

Actual Bombing
Regarding actual bombing, if at all possible you want your laser-guided missile co-pilot to take out single targets rather then stringing your bombs out for one kill.

Which is where the option of dropping 1 bomb in a bomber comes in handy. While it can be annoying, that 1 bomb can kill a single non-MBT target, and is a great backup plan in case your LGM co-pilot misses, loses lock, the LGM bugs, or any other reason that he doesn't kill it. Right as you are about to pull up, you can loose that 1 bomb and kill the intended single target, without having to use all 5 bombs.

Evasion: Jets vs. Jets

I'd venture to say there is no static guide to avoid another jet. It varies entirely from situation to situation, considering what jet you are in, what jet they are in, the altitude you are at, the altitude they are at, whether you have friendly cover, other ground-based threats, other air-based threats, available terrain to use to your advantage, etc. Just like bombing, there is no set-in-stone guide to evading another jet. I would say sticking to something like the split-S maneuver as a default evasive action will get you killed against a good pilot the second time you use it. If someone uses it on me once, and breaks me for a second, I guarantee the second time they try it I'll be MGing them out of the sky.

This is another thing that comes down to situational awareness and experience. You have to constantly mix in up, and know what kind of maneuvers you can use to break someone, especially maneuvers that don't involve wasting flares. I do a lot of elevation changes, banking, rolls mid-bank/climb, and basically try to use their jet's weaknesses against them. If you know that rolling over and pulling a half-loop while losing elevation and gaining speed will break a tail because they are in mid-climb in a jet that doesn't climb well (like the F-35), you do it! You need to keep in mind always your jets capabilities and weigh it against a tailing jet, to know what kind of evasion will work best. Against a J-10 in an F-18, vertical maneuvers and quick directional changes work best, because of the J-10s sluggish response. While it can bank and climb harder than any other jet, it has the slowest response time, which you can use against it. Also, you have to keep in mind the kind of maneuvers that break missiles off of you best... the F-18 climbs out of missile locks best, whereas a J-10 can do a quick bank and roll over to break nearly any missile or group of missiles.

It is not always important to completely lose a tailing jet. If you can get them to waste all their AA missiles and they have to go back to rearm, you effective force them to break off of you, rather than losing the tail. In some situations, it is easier and better to force them to waste their AA missiles, rather than breaking them off of you, and letting them remain a threat. If you force them off of you, and force them to rearm, then you open up an opportunity for you to get onto their 6, and force a threat on them, without their ability to fight back.

Flares

One thing to keep in mind is not necessarily diving with the flares, but keeping the flares between you and the source of the AA long enough to either get out of range, or roll hard enough to get out of their line-of-sight. A good technique to use against ground-based targets is doing a quick dive, release flares to "sling" them upwards, then climbing back up to mingle with the flares. This way, you can keep the same general level of altitude, without the worry of the flares falling below you and opening you open to the threat before you can get out of range. This also works well in any vertical or horizontal "climb".

Rearming

The J10 will rearm one bomb and 5 missiles in one runway pass, unless you go really slow which is BAD.
The F35B and Mig29 will fully reload, as will the bombers, F18 etc.

Rearming is actually a property of the runway, not the plane. While the J-10 will only reload 5 AA missiles and 1 bomb on a full-speed pass on the PLA runway, so will the F-35B. But, if you reload the J-10 on the USMC carrier, you will get a full reload on 1 full-speed pass, just like the F-35B. The same goes for the F-18 on a PLA runway, you will only reload 5 AA missiles and 1 bomb in a single full-speed pass.

Another thing to note is you only need to slow down to about 800-850mph to get a full reload off of the PLA runway, which you can't consider "really slow".

The PLA runway is just a tad bit too short in terms of the area you can reload in. The other runways are fine for a full reload in a single pass.

Again, great guide, just felt a few things needed mentioning. There is way too much information to really make a fully-fledged aviator's guide, but this will at least give people a good start.

What a gift for new aspiring pilots to have to help get them off their feet! I wish I had this when I first started playing. +1 for you

iCeMaN[USA] wrote:

Hello,
I noticed that you used a Force Feedback2 and I was wondering if you could please tell me where you got it and how much it was.  I have the older version and used it alot on flight sims but with XP it just doesnt work.  I'm looking to purchase one, but I cannot find one anywhere except on Ebay.  I didn't really want to deal with Ebay but I just might have to.

They stopped manufacturing this joystick - it was too expensive and they weren't making any money off it. Cost $150 dollars. Best joystick I ever bought, so glad I got one while it lasted. I've been using a joystick for 13 years now too, and I've been through many.

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CSi I am sorry I could not provide you with anything more to learn - but you have to realize that flight dynamics are so simple in BF2 and honestly this game has a strong arcade feel and it is very easy and fun to play. It is not like combat flight simulators, where skill really shows through. That and this guide is meant for people to learn, not for people who already have mastered flying - obviously everyone has their own technique once they have mastered flying and these types of people don't need tips from me and thats A-OK. You are welcome to share anything you have with us though!

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PS Torin I am working on a reply to you, you deserve it after writing all that up, but hold on I need to have a nap - I had some kind of kidney attack last night and I ended up in emergency until 3am (oddly enough this happened right when I posted the final version of the guide). This morning I had to drive 3 hours to campus for some engineering classes (until I find a place to live) and have just gotten back and I am very tired. I will get back to you tonight though.

Torin wrote:

Great guide, I agree with the grand majority of stuff, but felt there needed to be some mention of things I disagree with or at least feel the need to add onto.

Combat: Jet vs. Jet

Never cut your throttle. Airspeed is your lifeline, and it is not worth wasting afterburners to get back up to speed.

Generally speaking, very true. However, sometimes it is a necessity, but must be properly prepared for, otherwise it's a death sentence. You only really want to drop throttle as an evasive maneuver against a jet with superior maneuverability, and usually only when you have no flares to fall back on. Basically, the only times I've found it useful is against a jet with superior maneuverability, which is tailing you.

The idea is to break hard in one direction with afterburners (to lead them with the trails), break back hard in the other direction with afterburners, then drop off afterburners, reverse throttle and pull hard the other direction again. What happens is, they follow you through the 2 hard turns via your trail, but the non-afterburner turn gets a slower reaction, meaning that you are dropping throttle when you are just outside their view, so they don't see it coming. You keep to your turn and we can assume they will follow, but by the time they get you back into view, you are rapidly dropping speed, and by the time they can get behind you again, they've overpassed you. It's important to use the external views when executing this maneuver, so you can know when to expect they will overtake you, so you can know when to put the throttle back on and engage. Generally speaking, this is something you will pull against a J-10 while in an F-35B, and even if you manage to get behind them and engage, more than likely your missiles will all miss anyways, but it can be used to evade without the need to just completely bail out of the jet. A good J-10 pilot cannot be outmaneuvered when flying the F-35B, but they can be tricked.

This has been debated before in this thread in fact - many times people have cut throttle on me in an attempt to shake me and it results in two situations. You can snap back into bomb mode then back into missle mode to restablish lock through flares quick enough to get two rockets out and down the F35. This is shown several times in the videos. Also note that it is rare for an F35 to cut its throttle without a good pilot noticing and you can always cut your throttle too, but I won't do that.

Pretending you do pull off the maneuver, the J10 has maintained full-speed in addition to having its afterburners ready. The F35 has to chew through its burners to get back up to speed - the J10 can easily loop back on you. Remember the J10 has 15 sec burn and F35 10 sec! As you say below, if you want to make the good pilot debate you will get shot down either before or after you pull this maneuver. I admit it may buy you some time, and I have seen it work against nub pilots, but I wouldn't ever advise this to people who are trying to learn to fly.

Utilize your MG’s vs. enemy jets flying straight/slowly in combination with rockets. MG’s in turns are pretty useless except to alert the enemy of your presence. Sometimes you can get some good shots off, but you have to fire ahead (read turn faster) then your opponent to do this in a turn. You should always use your MGs if you can though, just be aware they won’t do damage unless you get good shots in. The F35 being a slow tub, really has a hard time firing a head of a jet it can’t even keep up with. That said, use your MGs wisely so you don’t alert everyone of your presence with bad shots, but lace your opponents with fire when you have a good chance of success.

An addendum to this... I agree that MGs are generally useless in the "chasing the tail" dogfight, except in certain situations. Tailing an enemy jet even for 5-10 seconds, you can get an idea of what maneuvers they like to use. The split-S, or any other vertical evasive maneuver is great to use the MGs on. If your jet can pull up harder and faster than the enemy jet, be it just a superior jet for maneuverability, or by using afterburners, you can get ample lead on your MGs to rip them in half. Any vertical loop maneuver leaves you following a steady path up, limited by your ability to pull up. An enemy just just has to know what to expect from your plane, lead you while you pull up into your loop or half-loop, and let the MGs go. This is why I only use vertical loop maneuvers when in a superior jet like the J-10, and when I have afterburners to guarantee I can't get caught in enemy MG fire. Yes, vertical loops are great for avoiding AA fire (unless you are in an F-35B), but are offer up an extremely predictable flight path that any good pilot with more maneuverability can take advantage of. They are more or less useless though in horizontal loops, because it is easy to bank left or right in such a loop when your altitute is not rapidly changing. (and thus you're not rapidly losing control)

This is the reason you must utilize after-burners the entire time you do the Split-S. It is effective because you use burners. No one can lead tracer fire on you in this maneuver when you burn, that is simply untrue. Even if you managed to hit them in the half-way rotation point, you would be lucky to get 3 bars of damage in before they were gone. I had =4th= AmusedToDeath chasing my ass for several rounds trying to down me doing that exact thing, stealthily following and trying to lace me with MG fire. It simply did not work and you are welcome to ask him.

Do not fly straight at an enemy chopper or away from one. You are quite easily TV’ed by any good gunner. A fast barrel roll is enough to evade them on the way by while you plan your next attack angle.

Beause of the dumb-fire missile techniques you mentioned, I'd have to disagree. You have to be very unlucky to be TV'd by an enemy chopper, unless you really just come back at them 8 different times and get them ample opportunities to set up a shot. I for one, in all my hours in the sky, have never been TV'd, and never TV'd an enemy jet, piloted competently. If they are doing a 180 and coming back at you, by the time they level out, you have about 1 second or less to line up a shot, and by that time, they are probably too close to take the shot. The day I get TV'd in the air, is the day I quit playing BF2. And to be TV'd by a chopper after flying away... well, why would you ever stay completely level, never turning, after flying past anything?

The dumb-fire missle method does not include flying straight at or away from a chopper. I clearly state you need to knife edge and power turn away from the body, and your angle of approach needs to be from behind or side, rarely front on. I have tv'ed many planes that head straight at a chopper, both coming and going, and I am sure Skruples and Saladforks can tell you some of their stories shooting planes down with TVs.

Do not loose rockets into an enemy jet that is chasing a friendly jet. Rather, use Joy2Key to spot the enemy jet for your ally so he knows he is being followed. If your ally gets shot down, then feel free to waste the enemy.

Very situational, I would not say never do this. It depends on what plane you are using, what plane you are chasing, and whether or not the enemy plane has used it's flares. If I am in a J-10, following an F-35, chasing a friendly plane.. I'll get lock, wait for a second to see if they drop flares, and fire off 1 rocket. By the time that rocket impacts or would have, you'll know if they have flares. If they don't, fire the second missile and finish the job. If they do, re-lock then finish the job.

However, if you are in an F-35B, chasing a J-10, chasing a friendly plane, more than likely, no matter when you shoot your missiles, they will most likely miss, and when they do, flares or not, they'll have a much more likely chance to hit the friendly jet. In that situation, there is little you can do but keep following and wait for them to break off/destroy the friendly, or just break off yourself and find something else to do.

I agree with you here - you can light up a chasing F35 because they really can't evade, that said I do not want to encourage learners in my guide to randomly shoot missiles. I hate getting team killed because someone is being greedy behind me

Combat: Fighter Jets and Bombing

Note: Don’t use single bomb mode in the bomber, it is @#$@ annoying!

I prefer it. It gives me 2 bombing runs in the bomber, as opposed to 1 before I have to return to rearm. 1 bomb can still kill 5 infantry, and tapping the alternate fire-key twice to drop the full load is no big deal as long as you expect it, and account for the slight delay.

Yes I believe I mentioned that single bomb mode is ok sometimes, but for me I find it annoying when I am expecting all 5 to come out and I have to press twice. Sometimes I have an extremely juicey target and I want all five out, but I get one and its like shit I forgot I'm stuck in singles and need to spam it twice - hence it being annoying for me anyway lol.

Bombing Priorities

I'd say this is also something that varies a lot. If I'm on wake, and I'm patrolling the area between a friendly flag and enemy flag, I'll keep in mind the flags. If the USMC has the beach and southwest-most flag, and I have to choose between a buggy, a tank and a small group of infantry, I'll usually go for the buggy. That buggy is most likely to break through the lines and get to the airfield, posing a threat to my ability to rearm, and respawn if necessary, so that will be my top priority. Even if an AA turret is armed, so long as I have flares ready, I'll go after the buggy. I know the tank won't pose a threat to capping that airfield flag before the buggy can, nor the troops, so the buggy it is. After that, the AA, then the tank, then the infantry. If however they only have the southwest-most flag, and the flag being threatened is the beach, I'll go for the tank instead of the buggy, as most likely the infantry between the beach and the airfield will be able to stop the buggy in time. There is a lot of information you have to process basically instantly, when choosing targets. You have to keep in mind what you have to bomb, what you don't. What you can guarantee to kill on the first pass, what you can't. Maybe that tank is guarded by some trees that might stop your second bomb from landing, so maybe you should MG the buggy instead, then deal with the tank from a different side/angle of attack.

There is no static list of what priority you take on bombing. Some targets are best left un-bombed because your bombs are needed elsewhere, but some targets should be attacked and killed with MGs first, before you bomb anything. It varies from map to map, situation to situation, based on who has what flag, what targets are available, how many bombs you have left, how long it will take to rearm, how long it will take to totally rearm, what other threats  you might have (an enemy jet), and generally what might be best to spend your time on. It all comes from experience, and takes time to develop good judgement on what to attack, and how to attack it. Also, you have to weigh the risks of friendly damage before deciding what to do, and how to do it. Bombing is a very fine art, as is using a plane in general, and it takes a lot of experience and quick decision making skills, as well as quick reaction times and control over the plane, which is all reflected in how you choose to go about bombing, or attacking in general.

Obviously an attack list is never going to be static depending on each map, but you can't write 10 different lists in a guide. I agree with you, every map has certain priorities - my intention was to impart what is more important in a general sense.

Next, if my ground radar gives me nothing, and my skies are still clear, I will start strafing runs on neutral flags, and common spawn points of nearby enemy flags. I will not base rape the enemy airfield unless they are being sassy bitches and spawn camping us all game.

Some maps you really have no choice, unless you just want to get shot down. On wake, if you want a chance at staying alive as USMC, if all J-10s are down and the PLA holds the airfield, you have no better priority than raping the J-10 spawn and nearby AA. This guarantees you can stay in the air, as the only threat is AA, and gives the friendly force an easier time getting on-land, staying on land, and taking more flags, specifically the airfield. The J-10 is a HUGE threat on Wake, and the best way to deal with it, is to never let it take off in the first place. An F-35B, no matter how good the pilot, cannot handle 1, much less 2 good J-10 pilots. The lynchpin in getting the PLA on lockdown on Wake, depends on being able to ground the J-10s and keep them grounded. Nothing is of higher priority to an F-35B pilot.

You do have options - e.g. on Wake rather then spawn rape the Essex I will break off over the island. Next round when I am in the F35 I will bomb vehicle assets only on the Airfield, I wont spawn rape the J10. If I am on China getting spawn raped by the F35, I tell them to stop. If they don't I rape them back to the carrier until it is both J10s spawn camping them and they can't move. After 10 minutes of that I will ask them if they will stop spawn raping the airfield. Most of the time the pilots leave the server after getting a dose of their own medicine. Then I can go back to playing fairly and not get so damn irritated by spawn campers.

Bombing Stationary AA

Like I said already, MG AA first if you suspect someone is on it or near it (ground radar will show if someone is actually on it, but sometimes it glitches out and shows a hot AA site when nobody is there all game long). If you don’t receive a kill right away (~20 rounds of MG) then release a bomb and it will get the bastard.

You also need to weigh the cost of using a bomb (or two) on an AA turret to kill 1 infantry. Destroying an AA turret with MGs take 2 seconds of constant fire, and it's down for a good 20-30 seconds. If that infantry just wants to stand around and wait for the AA to respawn, great! You'll just kill it again as soon as it respawns. I'd have to argue that there is rarely ever a reason to bomb an AA turret, unless you just don't have the altitude or angle of attack to destroy the turret with MGs.

It depends on the map with how long it takes to reload. Most of the smaller maps have stationary AA and the large ones have mobile AA. You do have to make a judicious choice - generally speaking, you are better just giving them a bomb then risking getting shot if you think someone is going to jump back on. I mention in the guide to MG first, and if you don't get a kill or see the AA blow up, just release your bomb at the last second. Its really easy to do so I don't see an issue here.

Jeeps can be tricky to bomb, but the easiest method is the conventional one, but also consider their fast velocity and accommodate for that in earlier releases if the vehicle is heading towards you, or bombing further ahead of the vehicle if it is traveling away from you.

Same as AA turretts, there is rarely a reason to ever bomb a jeep, unless you just don't have the option of MGing it, and can't afford the time to take a second pass to setup an MG kill.

Going to disagree completely with you here - MG a jeep just a tad and people will bail (think about when you're in one, I certainly jump out if were getting laced because I know what is coming next). Releasing the bomb not only kills any bailers, it kills anyone running in to get a ride etc. Of course you should try to kill the jeep with the MGs but I always bomb (watch the videos) to clean up any loose ends. Afterall, it is not really that long to get one more bomb.

Combat: Bombers

Actual Bombing
Regarding actual bombing, if at all possible you want your laser-guided missile co-pilot to take out single targets rather then stringing your bombs out for one kill.

Which is where the option of dropping 1 bomb in a bomber comes in handy. While it can be annoying, that 1 bomb can kill a single non-MBT target, and is a great backup plan in case your LGM co-pilot misses, loses lock, the LGM bugs, or any other reason that he doesn't kill it. Right as you are about to pull up, you can loose that 1 bomb and kill the intended single target, without having to use all 5 bombs.

Agreed, but not always will you have an LGM copilot as I am sure you are aware of when you fly. Most of the time you will get an idiot and you will be on your own. Single bombs are OK I am not saying its wrong, but it is annoying when you need to double tap to release your load on a juicy target - bombs 2,3,4,5 kind of lag a bit after your first bomb and I dislike it. Also, I often forget in the bomber that I got stuck in singles and I release one and it wasn't enough to do the job on the dual armor repair buddies etc.

Evasion: Jets vs. Jets

I'd venture to say there is no static guide to avoid another jet. It varies entirely from situation to situation, considering what jet you are in, what jet they are in, the altitude you are at, the altitude they are at, whether you have friendly cover, other ground-based threats, other air-based threats, available terrain to use to your advantage, etc. Just like bombing, there is no set-in-stone guide to evading another jet. I would say sticking to something like the split-S maneuver as a default evasive action will get you killed against a good pilot the second time you use it. If someone uses it on me once, and breaks me for a second, I guarantee the second time they try it I'll be MGing them out of the sky.

This is another thing that comes down to situational awareness and experience. You have to constantly mix in up, and know what kind of maneuvers you can use to break someone, especially maneuvers that don't involve wasting flares. I do a lot of elevation changes, banking, rolls mid-bank/climb, and basically try to use their jet's weaknesses against them. If you know that rolling over and pulling a half-loop while losing elevation and gaining speed will break a tail because they are in mid-climb in a jet that doesn't climb well (like the F-35), you do it! You need to keep in mind always your jets capabilities and weigh it against a tailing jet, to know what kind of evasion will work best. Against a J-10 in an F-18, vertical maneuvers and quick directional changes work best, because of the J-10s sluggish response. While it can bank and climb harder than any other jet, it has the slowest response time, which you can use against it. Also, you have to keep in mind the kind of maneuvers that break missiles off of you best... the F-18 climbs out of missile locks best, whereas a J-10 can do a quick bank and roll over to break nearly any missile or group of missiles.

It is not always important to completely lose a tailing jet. If you can get them to waste all their AA missiles and they have to go back to rearm, you effective force them to break off of you, rather than losing the tail. In some situations, it is easier and better to force them to waste their AA missiles, rather than breaking them off of you, and letting them remain a threat. If you force them off of you, and force them to rearm, then you open up an opportunity for you to get onto their 6, and force a threat on them, without their ability to fight back.

In all my hours of flying, obviously everyone adds spice to their flying, but in regards to BF2 flight dynamics, you are sorely mistaken about dying the second time you try it. Honestly, even if you knew I was going to Split-S, all you can do is try to keep up - and I check my rear view the whole time as you can see in the videos, if you are behind me I will change my descent do some more immelmans or a full split-s until I loose you.

You have to realize the F35 will never catch the J10, or the Mig, (not that you cant ever get lucky in your shots) and the F35 will never evade the J10 or Mig forever either... If you Split-S in the J10 or Mig you will never get touched, and if you Split S in the F35 you need to change your descent pattern etc. but that is understood you have to descend eventually and decide on more maneuvers.

That said, with burners on in the F35, the J10 wont catch you until you run out of burners. You have that window of time to flare-out on your way up doing the Split-S, and based on your altitude (remember the F35 ceiling is lower) decide to do another maneuver of any type at that height in hopes of loosing the J10, or exchanging your altitude for more speed which the J10 still won't be able to touch you. You can then apply more burners and decide your next maneuvers. You are weak in the F35 when you have lost your airspeed, lost your burners, and lost your altitude. In this sense, you have a much more limited time frame to loose your pursuer who is both faster and more agile, but the Split-S is a reliable maneuver in combination with changing your descent pattern to loose the J10. It is still a flying coffin and you will eventually die no matter what you try. That is why I advise any F35 to focus on bombing and not aerial combat, because simply put it is an unfair matchup. In this way, I have to disagree with what you say about dying if you try it twice in a row, that is simply not true. If you are in the J10 you cant be touched; if you are in the F35 regardless of what you do, your are going to die to a good pilot, you can only prolong that death and hope that you loose the enemy.

Finally, I agree that if you can entice them to loose all their missles and hopefully your flares absorb them then you are good to go, but still, you are out matched against a J10, or a Mig. Even if you got behind them, they'd have to really suck to let you shoot them down.

Flares

One thing to keep in mind is not necessarily diving with the flares, but keeping the flares between you and the source of the AA long enough to either get out of range, or roll hard enough to get out of their line-of-sight. A good technique to use against ground-based targets is doing a quick dive, release flares to "sling" them upwards, then climbing back up to mingle with the flares. This way, you can keep the same general level of altitude, without the worry of the flares falling below you and opening you open to the threat before you can get out of range. This also works well in any vertical or horizontal "climb".

I thought the guide made it clear that diving with the flares is a pretty crappy solution. That said, if I am going head on with a Vulcan, I will drop flares on my way in on my down-stroke to cover my approach. This is a great tactic and the only time I suggest using flares on the down-stroke; in combination with bombing live AA. As for flares on the upstroke I agree, releasing them on the upstroke will give them that upwards velocity which you can curve back into.

Rearming

The J10 will rearm one bomb and 5 missiles in one runway pass, unless you go really slow which is BAD.
The F35B and Mig29 will fully reload, as will the bombers, F18 etc.

Rearming is actually a property of the runway, not the plane. While the J-10 will only reload 5 AA missiles and 1 bomb on a full-speed pass on the PLA runway, so will the F-35B. But, if you reload the J-10 on the USMC carrier, you will get a full reload on 1 full-speed pass, just like the F-35B. The same goes for the F-18 on a PLA runway, you will only reload 5 AA missiles and 1 bomb in a single full-speed pass.

It isn't the runway length - it is your airspeed. The J10 will reload both bombs, missiles and guns on every maps airfield if you don't use your burners. If you do use them even well before you approach the runway, the J10 holds its higher airspeed really well at 950-1100 clicks. The F35 looses its afterburn and altitude-to-speed (swooping down) airspeed really quickly. The Essex is longer though, but the F35 will reload all bombs and missiles on the Airfield too (if USMC captures it).

Another thing to note is you only need to slow down to about 800-850mph to get a full reload off of the PLA runway, which you can't consider "really slow".

800-850 clicks is dying speed my friend. If I am below 1100 I am uncomfortable. I fly high in the F35 to have that speed available. The J10 has such great burners you can just spam them in bursts and always keep at 1100-1300. The faster you go, the less damage you will take from any missiles that manage to connect. They have more trouble tracking at higher speeds too.

The PLA runway is just a tad bit too short in terms of the area you can reload in. The other runways are fine for a full reload in a single pass.

Like I said, the PLA runway will reload fully if you fly in below 900 clicks. It is because the J10 is so fucking fast and retains its speed like a dream that it doesn't reload fully. Go try it, you can reload the J10 and F35 on the PLA runway if you try not to go too fast. This is not a good solution though, airspeed 4 life!

Again, great guide, just felt a few things needed mentioning. There is way too much information to really make a fully-fledged aviator's guide, but this will at least give people a good start.

Thanks for your comments, I hope I have given some reasoning/answers to everything you mentioned. I want to say I agree completely, this isn't a guide for experts, every map is different and requires different thinking. Every plane is different and should be used differently depending on the map and your team. There are really so many variables that you can't boil a guide down to be perfect. That said, in all honesty, the Split-S is a maneuver that will not fail you as far as it can go. The F35 is so damn weak, it is only a matter of time, and the J10 is so strong etc...

+1 for an excellent reply, thanks

Last edited by [CANADA]_Zenmaster (2006-05-04 20:29:22)

I fly the way I fly... i wouldnt know how to instruct someone on how to do so. If I may say so myself, I would have to say that i am quite the challenge in the air regardless of what air vehicle I'm in.

PspRpg-7 wrote:

Zen, on some of your pics, when you kill someone, it's in large letters and it says (+2) What's with that?

It is from my localization files, see:
http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=20166

Yup it makes perfect sense.  By the way I want to point out that it's an excellent wiki.  I'll look into this S-turn business to increase my survival in the F-35B.  Put me in a J-10 and, well... I'm almost invulnerable until a UAV comes out of nowhere or magical missiles lock on from Mars and ignore my flares.  Of course, I'm not bragging, because it's not hard to do with the J-10 :p  In any case, great work!

What joy stick would you sujest that isnt to expensive

Last edited by Aggpirate=US= (2006-05-05 03:28:17)

You have to be empty and re-arm both. If you already have one bomb and you grab another you will still be in single bomb mode.

Yes you can get out of it, but for all intents and purposes, once you get in it with the J10, unless you fly below 900 clicks over the runway and reload both bombs, you will be in singles. The J10 doesn't fly that slow unless you refrain from burners for a long time!

And just to clarify on my post, most jet vs jet situations described did not involve the J-10 vs. the F-35, which everyone knows is terrible. My "advice" was mostly based on good jet vs. good jet situations, such as the J-10 vs. F-18. The F-35 is terrible in all respects, and is only good when you can avoid air-to-air combat all together. On Oman though, you can camp the hell out of the runway for a long time with all those MG rounds, so long as another jet is not in the air. That's about all it's good for though.

I steal a LOT of enemy planes. On any map where it's the J-10 vs. the F-35, my first objective is steal the J-10. As a result, I do get a lot of good jet vs good jet experience (J-10 vs. J-10), so a lot of my comments are based on that experience, where planes are on a more equal footing. In those situations, I've had pilots use the split-s, to little effect. Yes, the split-s, or any arial maneuver for that matter is effective against an F-35, so obviously I'm not trying to contradict that. But, the split-S in a J-10 with a J-10 chasing does not always guarantee success. That is where I was trying to comment from.

I think we completely agreed on the runway thing, we just read each other's posts and stated our own take differently.

I'll still never bomb a jeep or AA though. If the jeep expoding 1-2 seconds after I start firing doesn't kill all the passengers, I still think saving my bomb(s) for more than 1 or 2 kills is a better use of my resources. I'm not fond of spending time reloading though, so I try to go through nearly all my payload (MGs included) before having to reload. The only exception is when I know I'll need the AA rockets, for heavy air-to-air combat maps like Dalian Plant and Wake.

And on Wake, I don't advocate spawn raping the carrier as PLA, but I do advocate spawn raping the J-10 spawn as USMC. There is no reason a J-10 needs to kill an F-35B on the pad,  you can easily kill them in the air. However, if I let a good pilot up in a J-10 when I'm USMC, I'm pretty much dead or bailing within the next 30 seconds, especially if I've been camping other vehicles at the PLA airfield. If I'm on the PLA and waiting for a J-10, and you are camping assets on the PLA airfield in the F-35B, I guarantee that unless you bail out, you'll be dead within 20 seconds of me taking off. The J-10 is so overpowering when you bring it up against the F-35B, that the only reliable way of dealing with it, IMO, is never letting it take off in the first place. If they would only balance the planes, this would not be necessary, but a good pilot getting off the ground in a J-10 is death for any F-35s as long as he is in the air. I've had many good F-35 pilots try to simply avoid me on Wake, and for a while it worked... they would bomb on the opposite side of the map, while I was busy cleaning up elsewhere, but as soon as I caught on, bam, they're dead.

One thing I think any new or prospective pilots should take away from all of this is that the F-35B completely sucks, and is completely outclasses by all jets, and to not expect any reasonable survivability in it against a good pilot in a superior jet. But it sure is good at base raping if there isn't a J-10 or Mig in pursuit.

I do get a lot of good LGM co-pilots though. I play usually only ever on 1 server, and have become renouned as a good pilot. Many of the regulars who I know can handle the LGM well, which always gladly team up with me in a bomber. I always fly to give a good LGM-user  a plethora of shots, because like I said, I don't like to spend time reloading, and prefer the MGs in all jets over the other payload. More often than not, a good LGM-user works well with my style of flying the bombers, and will usually always rack up more kills than I will. The LGM is so insanely powerful at the hands of a good co-pilot, so long as the pilot doesn't get greedy and gives him ample opportunity to use it. Where a pilot's payload could kill 10-15 people without reloading, an LGM pilot anywhere from 35-40 people without reloading. It's a lovely weapon, and I love piloting for a good co-pilot. For the same reason, I love flying a heli with a good gunner, because after it's all over, all we can do is complement each other on how well we performed our duties. Nothing is as fun as those rounds I get ~100 points as the bomber pilot and my gunner has 150-175. Well, except the next round when 18 noobs switch to your team and rush the bomber spawn. Damn noobs!

Nice dude.

You are pretty much a clone of me, or vise versa

for as long as I can remember I've always been 2.0 behind you in K/d ratio, bastard its no different now, you have ~14.06 and I have 12.78 I'm gaining on you ^^, nah just kidding.

I was thinking of doing a guide at some point, cause I thourght people needed a desent guide. one thing is for sure, I wouldnt have been patient enough to type as much as you. I guess the readers were lucky you did it first

... oh yea, I blame you whenever I get shot down from now on