BF2S Forums Mosque to be built by Ground Zero?

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Correct. In a vacuum, one can say "zomg Americans were meanies" but we don't live in a vacuum and the reality is that the 'shock and awe' of the nuclear weapons dropping allowed the Japanese leadership to save face and surrender honorably (in their eyes, because the war was already long lost).

Only Truman believed that, no-one else did, but lets not start this again....

Roc18 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Roc18 wrote:

"In fairness, we've been building 'ground zeros' near Iraqi mosques since March 2003. "

But:

- When we bomb them its in the spirit of freedom and democracy

- When they do it its because they're evil muslims/japs/gooks etc

Point is, its just a mosque it's not promoting the sterotypical "death to america!" image us americans have of muslims. This whole ordeal just shows how ignorant alot of Americans are of other religions.

Being a muslim does not always equal being a terrorist and vice versa.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Correct. In a vacuum, one can say "zomg Americans were meanies" but we don't live in a vacuum and the reality is that the 'shock and awe' of the nuclear weapons dropping allowed the Japanese leadership to save face and surrender honorably (in their eyes, because the war was already long lost).

Only Truman believed that, no-one else did, but lets not start this again....

No, it wasn't only Truman.

Okinawa Order of Battle -
US forces deployed - 183,000
US forces casualties - 51,429 (28%)
Japanese forces deployed - 117,000
Japanese forces casualties - 110,000 (94%) + 42,000-150,000 civilians

Iwo Jima Order of Battle -
US deployed - 70,000
US casualties - 26,039 (37%)
Japanese deployed - 18,500
Japanese casualties - 18,300 (99%)

Peleilu Order of Battle -
US deployed - 28,484
US casualties - 9,804 (34%)
Japanese deployed - 11,000
Japanese casualties - 10,695 (97%)

Estimated Japanese troop strength on Kyushu, which was to be the next target, was 545,000. You do the math.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-08-17 07:20:29)

Dilbert_X wrote:

"...in [July] 1945... Secretary of War Stimson, visiting my headquarters in Germany, informed me that our government was preparing to drop an atomic bomb on Japan. I was one of those who felt that there were a number of cogent reasons to question the wisdom of such an act. ...the Secretary, upon giving me the news of the successful bomb test in New Mexico, and of the plan for using it, asked for my reaction, apparently expecting a vigorous assent.

"During his recitation of the relevant facts, I had been conscious of a feeling of depression and so I voiced to him my grave misgivings, first on the basis of my belief that Japan was already defeated and that dropping the bomb was completely unnecessary, and secondly because I thought that our country should avoid shocking world opinion by the use of a weapon whose employment was, I thought, no longer mandatory as a measure to save American lives. It was my belief that Japan was, at that very moment, seeking some way to surrender with a minimum loss of 'face'. The Secretary was deeply perturbed by my attitude..."

Dwight Eisenhower

"If we were to go ahead with the plans for a conventional invasion with ground and naval forces, I believe the Japanese thought that they could inflict very heavy casualties on us and possibly as a result get better surrender terms. On the other hand if they knew or were told that no invasion would take place [and] that bombing would continue until the surrender, why I think the surrender would have taken place just about the same time."

Colonel Spaatz - In charge of Air Force operations in the Pacific

"...when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."

Brigadier General Carter Clarke - The military intelligence officer in charge of preparing intercepted Japanese cables - the MAGIC summaries - for Truman and his advisors

It is my opinion at the present time that a surrender of Japan can be arranged with terms that can be accepted by Japan and that will make fully satisfactory provisions for America's defense against future trans-Pacific aggression.

Admiral William D. Leahy, the President's Chief of Staff - June 18, 1945

The use of this barbarous weapon at Hiroshima and Nagasaki was of no material assistance in our war against Japan. The Japanese were already defeated and ready to surrender. . . .

Admiral William D. Leahy, the President's Chief of Staff

The first atomic bomb was an unnecessary experiment. . . . It was a mistake to ever drop it. . . . [the scientists] had this toy and they wanted to try it out, so they dropped it. . . . It killed a lot of Japs, but the Japs had put out a lot of peace feelers through Russia long before.

Admiral William F. Halsey, Jr., Commander U.S. Third Fleet

"it always appeared to us that, atomic bomb or no atomic bomb, the Japanese were already on the verge of collapse."

The commanding general of the U.S. Army Air Forces, Henry H. "Hap" Arnold

LeMay: The war would have been over in two weeks without the Russians entering and without the atomic bomb.

The Press: You mean that, sir? Without the Russians and the atomic bomb?

LeMay: The atomic bomb had nothing to do with the end of the war at all.

Major General Curtis E. LeMay


How am I doing?

"the decision to employ the atomic bomb on Japanese cities was made on a level higher than that of the Joint Chiefs of Staff."

Fleet Admiral Chester W. Nimitz, Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet

So it was a political, not military decision.

JG wrote:

You didn't prove me wrong at all. You took a bunch of quotes from people well after the fact