Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5870

So the U.S. is falling behind on college graduation rates.
A new report warns that the United States is falling farther and farther behind other countries in the proportion of adults with a college education. Researchers say the decline could have devastating economic and social consequences for the country.

According to the College Completion Agenda, no more than 40 percent of the U.S. adult population has a college degree, and even though most high school graduates enroll in college, only 56 percent earn an undergraduate degree in six years or less. The completion rate drops even more in community colleges, where only 28 percent earn a degree in three years or less.

"It's a very serious problem. People like never before in the United States understand how critical it is to get an education," says Gaston Caperton, president of the College Board, which commissioned the study. He says the U.S. is losing its competitive advantage in the world because it's not producing nearly enough people with the level of education necessary to keep high-paying jobs from leaving the country.
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/stor … =128725711
Okay that's interesting and all but meanwhile at the New York Times
At DePaul University, the tip-off to one student’s copying was the purple shade of several paragraphs he had lifted from the Web; when confronted by a writing tutor his professor had sent him to, he was not defensive — he just wanted to know how to change purple text to black.

And at the University of Maryland, a student reprimanded for copying from Wikipedia in a paper on the Great Depression said he thought its entries — unsigned and collectively written — did not need to be credited since they counted, essentially, as common knowledge.
...
But these cases — typical ones, according to writing tutors and officials responsible for discipline at the three schools who described the plagiarism — suggest that many students simply do not grasp that using words they did not write is a serious misdeed.

It is a disconnect that is growing in the Internet age as concepts of intellectual property, copyright and originality are under assault in the unbridled exchange of online information, say educators who study plagiarism.

Digital technology makes copying and pasting easy, of course. But that is the least of it. The Internet may also be redefining how students — who came of age with music file-sharing, Wikipedia and Web-linking — understand the concept of authorship and the singularity of any text or image.
...
In surveys from 2006 to 2010 by Donald L. McCabe, a co-founder of the Center for Academic Integrity and a business professor at Rutgers University, about 40 percent of 14,000 undergraduates admitted to copying a few sentences in written assignments.

Perhaps more significant, the number who believed that copying from the Web constitutes “serious cheating” is declining — to 29 percent on average in recent surveys from 34 percent earlier in the decade.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/02/educa … gewanted=1

I admit, I don't go to an super elite top 10 university but I've never had to plagiarize in order to get a good grade. Writing, comprehending texts, and forming original ideas is easy, at least for me.

Anyway, I'm fairly certain on a long enough time line that post high school education is going to become a 'right' in the United States and the federal government is going to start subsidizing everyone's college education. I feel that if the coming generations of students are fine with plagiarism and not actually putting in the effort to make a good paper or grade the government should probably focus their attention to doing something else with the resources it'll eventually spend on making the U.S. #1 in higher education rates.

On a sidenote, Am I the only person, from my age group, who thinks college is a bit overrated? During my day job, I've met some pretty damn successful and intelligent people who blow the people I met at Rutgers, NYU, New School, Pennstate and a bunch of other universities out of the water in terms of intelligence and success. Seems like people put a college degree on an undeserving pedestal sometimes and think a college degree automatically means better at life, the universe, and everything.
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,056|7057|PNW

Uh...

Could it be...PRICE?!

SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6415|North Tonawanda, NY

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Uh...

Could it be...PRICE?!

This.  The tuition at private universities is downright criminal.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5643|London, England

SenorToenails wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Uh...

Could it be...PRICE?!

This.  The tuition at private universities is downright criminal.
Sure, but the price of state schools isn't awful and in most cases you come out with an equal education (depending on effort put in).

Here's the kicker. Every time the government increases the subsidy for college educations, the price for tuition at private colleges goes up. Colleges are a business. They really don't give a damn about their students, just about how much money they can squeeze out of them. They turn around and spend this money on professor salaries, prestige ornaments and other crap to then keep their applicant levels high enough to raise prices even further. The Ivy's started it and it seems that every other private college follows the same model. They've convinced everyone that the tie clip you wear upon graduation is more important than the actual education you receive.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6833|San Diego, CA, USA
Maybe the worthless degrees they are offering.  For example, why pay $90,000 for a Liberal Arts degree and then become a school teacher making $30,000/year.  There is some truth in this: "Would you like frys with that?"

I feel like collage campuses are becoming more and more indoctrination academies instead of place of higher learning.

In many vocations (more of a European model of journeyman/trade), four years of real-world experience is better than four years in college with no experience.
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6415|North Tonawanda, NY

JohnG@lt wrote:

Sure, but the price of state schools isn't awful and in most cases you come out with an equal education (depending on effort put in).

Here's the kicker. Every time the government increases the subsidy for college educations, the price for tuition at private colleges goes up. Colleges are a business. They really don't give a damn about their students, just about how much money they can squeeze out of them. They turn around and spend this money on professor salaries, prestige ornaments and other crap to then keep their applicant levels high enough to raise prices even further. The Ivy's started it and it seems that every other private college follows the same model. They've convinced everyone that the tie clip you wear upon graduation is more important than the actual education you receive.
This is true, to some extent.  I wish that I had known to look at the rate of tuition increase when I was college shopping, because if I had, I probably would have gone to a state school.  My first year wasn't bad because of scholarships and all, but once they have you...well, I'm committed to paying it off, lol.  In my case, I did end up with a higher quality base education and a masters from a highly regarded theoretical physics school.  Of course, if I could only manage to get a job in physics, I'd be all set!  Sigh...
unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+2,056|7057|PNW

JohnG@lt wrote:

SenorToenails wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

Uh...

Could it be...PRICE?!

This.  The tuition at private universities is downright criminal.
Sure, but the price of state schools isn't awful and in most cases you come out with an equal education (depending on effort put in).

Here's the kicker. Every time the government increases the subsidy for college educations, the price for tuition at private colleges goes up. Colleges are a business. They really don't give a damn about their students, just about how much money they can squeeze out of them. They turn around and spend this money on professor salaries, prestige ornaments and other crap to then keep their applicant levels high enough to raise prices even further. The Ivy's started it and it seems that every other private college follows the same model. They've convinced everyone that the tie clip you wear upon graduation is more important than the actual education you receive.
I enjoyed tech college, TBH. You just have to watch out for classes where the professors really don't know what they're doing.
DesertFox-
The very model of a modern major general
+796|6970|United States of America
We've got too many people going to college anyway because it's become practically essential. There's tons of people in college who really shouldn't be, but the universities are happy to take anyone's money and cheapen the value of a degree by being drunk of your ass for four years and being a straight C student. As a result, you've got people fighting like mad for internships and later, jobs, and the whole idiotic idea of being "well-rounded" in the minds of people meaning that you are required to volunteer for stupid shit if you want a good job. I'll be interested to see what's going on when I graduate, and hope not to have spent thousands of dollars for a piece of paper.
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6833|San Diego, CA, USA
In my Engineering classes there were American students who learned to read Chinese because the Teacher's version of our books were online.

I'm proud to say I never cheated or took notes in class and still pulled off a 3.43 / 4.00 GPA.

I agree that we have too many people being duped into going to college that shouldn't go.  I think everyone should take their first two years at a Community College before transferring to a four-year University.

Take night classes, btw, and you'll be taught by the same professors that work at during the day at these Universities with the SAME textbooks in a class of 15-25 instead of 300-400!
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6415|North Tonawanda, NY

Harmor wrote:

In my Engineering classes there were American students who learned to read Chinese because the Teacher's version of our books were online.

I'm proud to say I never cheated or took notes in class and still pulled off a 3.43 / 4.00 GPA.

I agree that we have too many people being duped into going to college that shouldn't go.  I think everyone should take their first two years at a Community College before transferring to a four-year University.

Take night classes, btw, and you'll be taught by the same professors that work at during the day at these Universities with the SAME textbooks in a class of 15-25 instead of 300-400!
Shit, I almost had to learn chinese to get a copy of a textbook that was affordable!  My PDE text arrived and I nearly crapped myself because the cover and intro pages are all in mandarin...but luckily the actual book is english.

Almost every single textbook for all my math and physics classes was purchased from book dealers in SE Asia for basically $5-10+FedEx/UPS express shipping.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001
maybe requirements are going up.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6833|San Diego, CA, USA

Cybargs wrote:

maybe requirements are going up.
Its a mill.  They brainwash your kids into college and then turn them out faster than a widget factory in China - quantity over quality

And don't forget about all those government grants (things like $400,000 to study the habits of Vietnamese hookers and crazy shit like that).
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6833|San Diego, CA, USA
Besides college is as much buying access to the people going there for contacts (i.e. ol' boys network), at the Ivy League Colleges than it is getting an education. 

Oh and don't forget some states give In-State Tuition to Illegals...so our tax money is subsidizing them.  (Obama and the Dream Act anyone???)
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7006|Sydney, Australia

Harmor wrote:

I agree that we have too many people being duped into going to college that shouldn't go.  I think everyone should take their first two years at a Community College before transferring to a four-year University.
Various tv shows lead me to believe that in some US colleges you study general subjects then specialise into your degree.. or something.. But I agree that people should begin with a rounded education. For example, I'm doing a double degree in civil engineering/commerce.. and my friends who are only doing civil laugh at the fact I had to do macro/micro economics last year.. yet it's given me a much better understanding of the world. I'd think they would want to know about the economy + finance when trying to get into a private engineering company..
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7001

mcminty wrote:

Harmor wrote:

I agree that we have too many people being duped into going to college that shouldn't go.  I think everyone should take their first two years at a Community College before transferring to a four-year University.
Various tv shows lead me to believe that in some US colleges you study general subjects then specialise into your degree.. or something.. But I agree that people should begin with a rounded education. For example, I'm doing a double degree in civil engineering/commerce.. and my friends who are only doing civil laugh at the fact I had to do macro/micro economics last year.. yet it's given me a much better understanding of the world. I'd think they would want to know about the economy + finance when trying to get into a private engineering company..
For US colleges I think you have to take a certain amount of math, science and humanities credits in order to graduate. Most people take it in their first year or two because they dont know what they want to do in their life.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
Vilham
Say wat!?
+580|7051|UK
Other countries are only increasing "graduation rates" because people are encouraged to do garbage degrees that benefit them in no way.

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