Well you might not have anything better to do with your time than stalk the police with a cam corder HOPING they do something wrong, but I have better things to do withn my time...................like go to work.Reciprocity wrote:
yep.lowing wrote:
Pretty crazy huh?
I don't go around filming cops but I also don't trust them any more than any other person. Police have no duty or legal obligation to protect individuals. They aren't looking out for my interests, they aren't serving me, and I don't expect them to. Their job is to maintain whatever order they want and to fill their quotas. You seem to think they should be judge, jury and executioner.
That has got to be tough position to hold where you do not believe you have the right to protect yourself or your property yet you do not expect the police to do so either...You have one fucked up attitude toward law enforcement.Reciprocity wrote:
I don't go around filming cops but I also don't trust them any more than any other person. Police have no duty or legal obligation to protect individuals. They aren't looking out for my interests, they aren't serving me, and I don't expect them to. Their job is to maintain whatever order they want and to fill their quotas. You seem to think they should be judge, jury and executioner.
where did I say that?lowing wrote:
That has got to be tough position to hold where you do not believe you have the right to protect yourself or your property yet you do not expect the police to do so either.
because they can just as easily beat the fuck out of someone who didn't actually do anything, by going to the wrong houselowing wrote:
Nope what I am saying is, a criminal getting the fuck beat out of him, really isn't high on my list of bullshit to protest. .jord wrote:
Even if the 2 examples I gave had provacation, and they don't, it doesn't justify beating a subdued person..lowing wrote:
Now for the rest of the stories, what did those people do that drew thew cops attention?
Or do you think it does?
it doesn't matter what they did to deserve to be arrested, you DO NOT BEAT A SUBDUED INDIVIDUAL period
i own guns and live in canada, i can guarantee you i will have multiple visits by the RCMP... most of which barely know which end of their gun goes bang, they can and will charge me with perceived infractions and it will be my word against theirs...... guess who's word will be taken and who's will be discarded?lowing wrote:
LOL, you say that as if you really think you are going to have to defend yourself against a bad cop.krazed wrote:
criminals i can defend againstlowing wrote:
THey are not filming "bad cops" they are filming ALL the cops that they can, in hopes to filming one doing something wrong. They have not heard of a specific "bad cop" and decided to get his actions on film as proof. Like it or not, there is a difference.
Sorry you think filming all cops is going to make your community better over thinking pulling criminals off of the streets will. Or does your logic tell you that there is more of a bad cop problem than a bad citizen problem?
there's nothing i can do against a bad cop
Generally speaking, the only people that need to worry about "bad cops" are bad people. In such a case, those are not bad cops, theose are GREAT cops.
generally speaking i shouldn't have to lock my doors at night, but us humans being what we are... aren't trustworthy, regardless of profession or title
sorry for my late reply, i completely forgot about this thread when i was at work
either that or hes a fucking idiot.Reciprocity wrote:
See, lowing's such a hardcore, nutball conservative that even the Constitution is too much of a pussy-assed, liberal piece of toilet paper for his liking.lowing wrote:
Generally speaking, the only people that need to worry about "bad cops" are bad people. In such a case, those are not bad cops, theose are GREAT cops.
I don't know where you live but in Australia that statement could be be farther from the truth.Reciprocity wrote:
I don't go around filming cops but I also don't trust them any more than any other person. Police have no duty or legal obligation to protect individuals. They aren't looking out for my interests, they aren't serving me, and I don't expect them to. Their job is to maintain whatever order they want and to fill their quotas. You seem to think they should be judge, jury and executioner.
1. We do have a legal "duty of care" on duty as well as off duty.
2. As cynical as you may appear Cops join the job to help people, not to fill quotas.
3. We are serving you, the public, the community.
but he was criminals (which he wasn't) and obviously that justifies any and all actions that the police may takeit doesn't matter what they did to deserve to be arrested, you DO NOT BEAT A SUBDUED INDIVIDUAL period
Last edited by Spark (2010-07-31 21:20:17)
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Success of policing is not judged on just the outcome. How you get there is just as important. You have the use the minimum amount of force required for as little time as possible.Spark wrote:
but he was criminals (which he wasn't) and obviously that justifies any and all actions that the police may takeit doesn't matter what they did to deserve to be arrested, you DO NOT BEAT A SUBDUED INDIVIDUAL period
Police have no legal obligation to protect US citizens. There is no criminal liability incurred if they choose to deny or are unable provide protection. Civil liability may or may not apply depending on where you live and how much money you can spend on a lawyer.BN wrote:
I don't know where you live but in Australia that statement could be be farther from the truth.
1. We do have a legal "duty of care" on duty as well as off duty.
2. As cynical as you may appear Cops join the job to help people, not to fill quotas.
3. We are serving you, the public, the community.
Don't get me wrong, I don't, in general, hate police. I just don't depend on them for any more than giving out traffic tickets and keeping poor people under control.
sarcasmBN wrote:
Success of policing is not judged on just the outcome. How you get there is just as important. You have the use the minimum amount of force required for as little time as possible.Spark wrote:
but he was criminals (which he wasn't) and obviously that justifies any and all actions that the police may takeit doesn't matter what they did to deserve to be arrested, you DO NOT BEAT A SUBDUED INDIVIDUAL period
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
They both weren't criminals so you can't dehumanise them as you usually do.lowing wrote:
Nope what I am saying is, a criminal getting the fuck beat out of him, really isn't high on my list of bullshit to protest. In fact I would rather donate my time to Al Gores global warming.jord wrote:
Even if the 2 examples I gave had provacation, and they don't, it doesn't justify beating a subdued person..lowing wrote:
Now for the rest of the stories, what did those people do that drew thew cops attention?
Or do you think it does?
Humor me anyway, tell me how these cops just picked these people out of a crowd and decided to beat them for amusement.
One was in the wrong place at the wrong time, (old man near g20 protests).
And the other was drunk and disorderly, however he didn't fight the arrest. He merely cooperated and then got held down and beat. Perhaps he said something derogatory towards the officer like "pig", that would justify a beating in your world right?
Stop trying to pick apart examples when they are stellar examples of police brutality and abuse of power.
Did I humour you?
only a little, nothing worse than a smart ass drunk when you are sober, so I am sure he had it coming.jord wrote:
They both weren't criminals so you can't dehumanise them as you usually do.lowing wrote:
Nope what I am saying is, a criminal getting the fuck beat out of him, really isn't high on my list of bullshit to protest. In fact I would rather donate my time to Al Gores global warming.jord wrote:
Even if the 2 examples I gave had provacation, and they don't, it doesn't justify beating a subdued person..
Or do you think it does?
Humor me anyway, tell me how these cops just picked these people out of a crowd and decided to beat them for amusement.
One was in the wrong place at the wrong time, (old man near g20 protests).
And the other was drunk and disorderly, however he didn't fight the arrest. He merely cooperated and then got held down and beat. Perhaps he said something derogatory towards the officer like "pig", that would justify a beating in your world right?
Stop trying to pick apart examples when they are stellar examples of police brutality and abuse of power.
Did I humour you?
and you are telling me the "old man" was beat for fun? Is this your claim?
Really? you mean you are not one of those that feels a human life is worth more than yor big screen? and that you have no right to take a life in your defense or the defense of your property?Reciprocity wrote:
where did I say that?lowing wrote:
That has got to be tough position to hold where you do not believe you have the right to protect yourself or your property yet you do not expect the police to do so either.
Yeah someone who makes a few smart ass comments when drunk deserves a severe beating when drunk, yeah that's top notch western policing there... sigh.lowing wrote:
only a little, nothing worse than a smart ass drunk when you are sober, so I am sure he had it coming.jord wrote:
They both weren't criminals so you can't dehumanise them as you usually do.lowing wrote:
Nope what I am saying is, a criminal getting the fuck beat out of him, really isn't high on my list of bullshit to protest. In fact I would rather donate my time to Al Gores global warming.
Humor me anyway, tell me how these cops just picked these people out of a crowd and decided to beat them for amusement.
One was in the wrong place at the wrong time, (old man near g20 protests).
And the other was drunk and disorderly, however he didn't fight the arrest. He merely cooperated and then got held down and beat. Perhaps he said something derogatory towards the officer like "pig", that would justify a beating in your world right?
Stop trying to pick apart examples when they are stellar examples of police brutality and abuse of power.
Did I humour you?
and you are telling me the "old man" was beat for fun? Is this your claim?
I don't know why the old man was beaten, its a pretty big story here and the video is widely available. It shows the dosile old man being hit with a baton and pushed over as he walks passed a group of clearly up for it adrenaline fuelled police. I don't know if it was for fun, to relieve stress, to take job public down a peg or two or a warning to the protesters. I'm not sure, not being a complete prick that bullies members of the public and abuses power given to me and all...
The two examples of brutality are pretty indefensible if you've seen the videos and know the stories. Id give up on that front and steer the debate back to how police shouldn't be able to be filmed while dealing out vigilante justice.
Well, I have been around loud obnoxious totally asshole drunks, so look else where for sympathy for him
as for the "old man" funny how you "don't know why he was beaten", but you are sure he didn't have it coming. Get back with me when you know why he was beaten.
as for the "old man" funny how you "don't know why he was beaten", but you are sure he didn't have it coming. Get back with me when you know why he was beaten.
I don't know why because I'm not a psychic, and to be frank I don't care what reasons there are for beating a dosile old man. Like I don't care why a paedophile does what he does.
Why do you keeping saying "old man" instead of old man. Does the fact that he was just a frail old man, uninvolved in the protests make the story to human and make it harder to defend the sub par, idiotic decision the police made to strike him with a baton then push him over?
Why do you keeping saying "old man" instead of old man. Does the fact that he was just a frail old man, uninvolved in the protests make the story to human and make it harder to defend the sub par, idiotic decision the police made to strike him with a baton then push him over?
old man is subjective, if you are 15, old might 34. In fact if you are 15, 34 IS old.jord wrote:
I don't know why because I'm not a psychic, and to be frank I don't care what reasons there are for beating a dosile old man. Like I don't care why a paedophile does what he does.
Why do you keeping saying "old man" instead of old man. Does the fact that he was just a frail old man, uninvolved in the protests make the story to human and make it harder to defend the sub par, idiotic decision the police made to strike him with a baton then push him over?
Never seen too many frail 98 year olds at protests....
Some times people have ass whippin's coming... Rodney King? He had one coming and it cost the cops their jobs, now that was tragic. How about any number of the white trash on "Cops", every one of them usually had one coming as well.
I appreciate what you are saying, but I am not prepared to write off an entire law enforcement profession as corrupt because of a few bad apples.
like some of you are.
Funny, you won't write off Islam because of a "few" Muslims, but are totally prepared to write off all of law enforcement as suspicious and evil..Go figure, more liberal inconsistency and double standard.
Last edited by lowing (2010-08-01 08:24:42)
I don't know about the rodney king story so I won't speculate or presume.
I can see why vigilante justice is appealing, scum, rapists, murderers, pedos all getting their just desserts. It doesn't work like that though, street cops aren't qualified to know what punishment someone deserves. Its a judges/jurors job. Especially when subdued drunks and dosile old men are being assaulted. Or when a soldier comes home after a tour of afghanistan and describes being beaten by cops as scarier and more life threatening than a patrol of helmand. Or when a passive man is arrested and his elderly mother tazed for getting out of the car. Or the thousand other examples of abuse and brutality.
I can see why vigilante justice is appealing, scum, rapists, murderers, pedos all getting their just desserts. It doesn't work like that though, street cops aren't qualified to know what punishment someone deserves. Its a judges/jurors job. Especially when subdued drunks and dosile old men are being assaulted. Or when a soldier comes home after a tour of afghanistan and describes being beaten by cops as scarier and more life threatening than a patrol of helmand. Or when a passive man is arrested and his elderly mother tazed for getting out of the car. Or the thousand other examples of abuse and brutality.
Regarding your edit I'm just going to state I'm not saying all law enforcment are corrupt or abuse their power, we have been discussing 2 examples, not the police in general.
I'm also not a liberal, we've been through this before. I have what you may consider liberal beliefs like I have what you'd call conservative opinions. I'm not the inconsistant one lowing, nor am I. Trying to defend some shitty officers when I don't know the story or haven't seen the video. Ignorance or arrogance on your part I'm unsure.
I'm also not a liberal, we've been through this before. I have what you may consider liberal beliefs like I have what you'd call conservative opinions. I'm not the inconsistant one lowing, nor am I. Trying to defend some shitty officers when I don't know the story or haven't seen the video. Ignorance or arrogance on your part I'm unsure.
where did I say that?lowing wrote:
Really? you mean you are not one of those that feels a human life is worth more than yor big screen? and that you have no right to take a life in your defense or the defense of your property?Reciprocity wrote:
where did I say that?lowing wrote:
That has got to be tough position to hold where you do not believe you have the right to protect yourself or your property yet you do not expect the police to do so either.
Neither, it is called latitude for a profession that is hard as hell. If a criminals gets his ass whipped occasionally, I am all for it.jord wrote:
Regarding your edit I'm just going to state I'm not saying all law enforcment are corrupt or abuse their power, we have been discussing 2 examples, not the police in general.
I'm also not a liberal, we've been through this before. I have what you may consider liberal beliefs like I have what you'd call conservative opinions. I'm not the inconsistant one lowing, nor am I. Trying to defend some shitty officers when I don't know the story or haven't seen the video. Ignorance or arrogance on your part I'm unsure.
and I haven't seen any videos where a cop just decided to pick someone out of a crowd and beat the fuck out of them for their own amusement.
Oh well then by all means let me just come right out and ask, because I am not going to dig through 1000 posts regarding self defense.Reciprocity wrote:
where did I say that?lowing wrote:
Really? you mean you are not one of those that feels a human life is worth more than yor big screen? and that you have no right to take a life in your defense or the defense of your property?Reciprocity wrote:
where did I say that?
Will you shoot to kill someone breaking into your home or car, or is the proper response to try to escape? Do you even own a gun?
lollowing wrote:
Oh well then by all means let me just come right out and ask, because I am not going to dig through 1000 posts regarding self defense.
Will you shoot to kill someone breaking into your home or car, or is the proper response to try to escape? Do you even own a gun?