I live in California and I don't want to live here. No only are our tax rates going up 14-50% on January 1st, 2011 but NEW taxes like higher sales taxes are going to kicking in.JohnG@lt wrote:
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Besides, no one in their right mind wants to live in California. You're still fucked.
Lawl, it's got fuckall to do with illegals and everything to do with the ridiculous packages your public service unions were given across the entire state during the Dot Com boom. Guess everyone thought the good times would never end and now the checks come due. Couple this with the fact that you all voted for Propositions 13 and now you're fucked. You were eating your cake without paying for it (enjoying services), now that's gone away.Harmor wrote:
I live in California and I don't want to live here. No only are our tax rates going up 14-50% on January 1st, 2011 but NEW taxes like higher sales taxes are going to kicking in.JohnG@lt wrote:
...
Besides, no one in their right mind wants to live in California. You're still fucked.
Thanks illegals...the $20 billion deficit could be nulled if it weren't for you (illegal are estimated to cost Californian's $20 billion/year).
Arizona or Texas look better and better every day.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-29 20:50:37)
is this the real reason you're moving?ATG wrote:
There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."ATG wrote:
There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
JohnG@lt wrote:
Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals. It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan. They don't exactly wear uniforms.JohnG@lt wrote:
"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."ATG wrote:
There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#Demographics
Total population of 36,961,664 puts the total number of illegals at: 2,698,201. That's quite a bit lower than your own number now isn't it? How can 7.3% of the population of your state bankrupt you all by themselves? Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
I don't give a shit. There's no way in hell that the number is possibly inflated by 30-40% like the asinine number ATG posted. Illegals are a problem yeah, but they aren't the reason California is bankrupt. California is bankrupt simply because it was mismanaged for decades. Pie in the sky ideas, strong unions, and a population full of jackasses that don't want to pay for the programs they use every day is why they're in trouble. California is essentially a microcosm of the US as a whole, they just can't print moneyTurquoise wrote:
....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals. It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan. They don't exactly wear uniforms.JohnG@lt wrote:
"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."ATG wrote:
There are 10-15 million illegals just in California.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#Demographics
Total population of 36,961,664 puts the total number of illegals at: 2,698,201. That's quite a bit lower than your own number now isn't it? How can 7.3% of the population of your state bankrupt you all by themselves? Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
I'm not disagreeing with that. However, I wouldn't say illegals are blameless either.JohnG@lt wrote:
I don't give a shit. There's no way in hell that the number is possibly inflated by 30-40% like the asinine number ATG posted. Illegals are a problem yeah, but they aren't the reason California is bankrupt. California is bankrupt simply because it was mismanaged for decades. Pie in the sky ideas, strong unions, and a population full of jackasses that don't want to pay for the programs they use every day is why they're in trouble. California is essentially a microcosm of the US as a whole, they just can't print moneyTurquoise wrote:
....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals. It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan. They don't exactly wear uniforms.JohnG@lt wrote:
"In 2010, illegal immigrants constituted an estimated 7.3 percent of the population."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California#Demographics
Total population of 36,961,664 puts the total number of illegals at: 2,698,201. That's quite a bit lower than your own number now isn't it? How can 7.3% of the population of your state bankrupt you all by themselves? Stop blaming them for all of your states problems. You assholes did it to yourselves, not them.
Neo-con interventionism, fascist population control and now racial purity. You really are on a roll this week.Turquoise wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with that. However, I wouldn't say illegals are blameless either.JohnG@lt wrote:
I don't give a shit. There's no way in hell that the number is possibly inflated by 30-40% like the asinine number ATG posted. Illegals are a problem yeah, but they aren't the reason California is bankrupt. California is bankrupt simply because it was mismanaged for decades. Pie in the sky ideas, strong unions, and a population full of jackasses that don't want to pay for the programs they use every day is why they're in trouble. California is essentially a microcosm of the US as a whole, they just can't print moneyTurquoise wrote:
....except the fact that there is no reliable way to calculate the number of illegals. It's like trying to calculate the number of insurgents in Afghanistan. They don't exactly wear uniforms.
Multiple factors have fucked over California. Some of these problems were self-inflicted, but illegals did contribute to some of their problems.
Arizona is actually more of a relevant example of how illegals can damage a state -- most notably with the rise in kidnappings in Phoenix.
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.Turquoise wrote:
It's not about race. It's about citizenship. If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.JohnG@lt wrote:
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.Turquoise wrote:
It's not about race. It's about citizenship. If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
Then why are you so riled up against a small part of the population? There's plenty of freeloaders of other races, yet you seem to focus on illegals almost as much as the OP does.Turquoise wrote:
I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.JohnG@lt wrote:
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.Turquoise wrote:
It's not about race. It's about citizenship. If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
I generally don't get terrified of the inevitable. Besides, I'll be in Canada eventually. Whatever happens 20 years from now in America isn't too concerning to me other than how it relates to the global economy. If America becomes significantly more Latino in culture (which it probably will), that will be interesting, but I don't see it as positive or negative -- it's just different. It's like how different America became after the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans arrived in the early 1900s.
The freeloaders we already have make it that much harder for the system to handle more people coming in who may not usually freeload but still don't pay their share of taxes to compensate for the amenities they use.JohnG@lt wrote:
Then why are you so riled up against a small part of the population? There's plenty of freeloaders of other races, yet you seem to focus on illegals almost as much as the OP does.Turquoise wrote:
I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.JohnG@lt wrote:
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.
I generally don't get terrified of the inevitable. Besides, I'll be in Canada eventually. Whatever happens 20 years from now in America isn't too concerning to me other than how it relates to the global economy. If America becomes significantly more Latino in culture (which it probably will), that will be interesting, but I don't see it as positive or negative -- it's just different. It's like how different America became after the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans arrived in the early 1900s.
How exactly aren't they paying their fair share in taxes? They pay rent, yes? Therefor they pay property taxes. They work, yes? Therefor they pay income taxes (without the chance of getting a refund I might add). They shop, yes? Therefor they pay sales tax as well. Even if they use a fake social security number to find employment, their employer has to deduct payroll taxes for them.Turquoise wrote:
The freeloaders we already have make it that much harder for the system to handle more people coming in who may not usually freeload but still don't pay their share of taxes to compensate for the amenities they use.JohnG@lt wrote:
Then why are you so riled up against a small part of the population? There's plenty of freeloaders of other races, yet you seem to focus on illegals almost as much as the OP does.Turquoise wrote:
I'm not having kids, but I know what you're saying.
I generally don't get terrified of the inevitable. Besides, I'll be in Canada eventually. Whatever happens 20 years from now in America isn't too concerning to me other than how it relates to the global economy. If America becomes significantly more Latino in culture (which it probably will), that will be interesting, but I don't see it as positive or negative -- it's just different. It's like how different America became after the waves of Southern and Eastern Europeans arrived in the early 1900s.
There's also the fact that if we send the message that anyone can enter anytime they like without any respect to immigration laws, well... you can expect the development of a much larger underclass than before and a major rise in the influence of drug cartels.
In effect, Mexico is exporting its problems here.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-29 23:01:36)
I have just a few questions for you then.... Why have immigration laws at all? Why have citizenship? It would seem that all that matters to you is the ability to fill jobs.JohnG@lt wrote:
How exactly aren't they paying their fair share in taxes? They pay rent, yes? Therefor they pay property taxes. They work, yes? Therefor they pay income taxes (without the chance of getting a refund I might add). They shop, yes? Therefor they pay sales tax as well. Even if they use a fake social security number to find employment, their employer has to deduct payroll taxes for them.
So... that leaves only those working under the table as income tax dodgers and we have millions of our own homegrown tax dodgers doing that very exact thing. Hell, my landlord knocked $50 a month off my rent in order to entice me to pay cash instead of handing them a check. You think they're reporting the income they receive from this rental? My landlord happens to be white too.
Basically, your entire argument is housed on fallacies and half truths. It's easy to pick on immigrants, hell it happens to be a national pastime, I just figured you were better than that.
Last edited by Turquoise (2010-07-29 23:05:33)
Immigration laws should simply act as a filter to keep out criminals. Quotas are retarded.Turquoise wrote:
I have just a few questions for you then.... Why have immigration laws at all? Why have citizenship? It would seem that all that matters to you is the ability to fill jobs.JohnG@lt wrote:
How exactly aren't they paying their fair share in taxes? They pay rent, yes? Therefor they pay property taxes. They work, yes? Therefor they pay income taxes (without the chance of getting a refund I might add). They shop, yes? Therefor they pay sales tax as well. Even if they use a fake social security number to find employment, their employer has to deduct payroll taxes for them.
So... that leaves only those working under the table as income tax dodgers and we have millions of our own homegrown tax dodgers doing that very exact thing. Hell, my landlord knocked $50 a month off my rent in order to entice me to pay cash instead of handing them a check. You think they're reporting the income they receive from this rental? My landlord happens to be white too.
Basically, your entire argument is housed on fallacies and half truths. It's easy to pick on immigrants, hell it happens to be a national pastime, I just figured you were better than that.
If it really just comes down to letting the market clear everything, then the rest of all this is extraneous. Borders are merely arbitrary, as are governments.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-29 23:19:32)
Well, you can forget about having any filters in place soon enough.JohnG@lt wrote:
Immigration laws should simply act as a filter to keep out criminals. Quotas are retarded.
I'd argue that's already been compromised via lobbyism. You don't need to import votes, you just buy whoever runs for office. Then, it doesn't matter who gets elected, as long as you have a lot of influence among both of the major candidates.JohnG@lt wrote:
Citizenship is required simply because it eliminates the chance of people unaffected by elections voting. Without citizenship, what's to stop a special interest from importing people to vote in favor of their platform in an election? Other than that, it has no value.
Serfdom is a matter of perspective. Serfdom knows no bounds in an age of multinational corporations. You're never truly free, unless you live on an island cut off from the rest of humanity. You'll always have one master or another to answer to.JohnG@lt wrote:
Used in any other way, it is simply a tool to bind people to the land in the manner of serfs.
Why's that? I don't see why the logic for one shouldn't hold true for the other.JohnG@lt wrote:
National borders are entirely arbitrary, yes. Localized borders, as in town lines etc, are not.
Last edited by Turquoise (2010-07-29 23:22:20)
I speak Spanish, you dolt.JohnG@lt wrote:
Ok. So you're not terrified that your great great grandchildren will probably speak Spanish instead of English? ATG is.Turquoise wrote:
It's not about race. It's about citizenship. If you're trespassing, you have to leave.
Replied before I finished my edit.Turquoise wrote:
Well, you can forget about having any filters in place soon enough.JohnG@lt wrote:
Immigration laws should simply act as a filter to keep out criminals. Quotas are retarded.I'd argue that's already been compromised via lobbyism. You don't need to import votes, you just buy whoever runs for office. Then, it doesn't matter who gets elected, as long as you have a lot of influence among both of the major candidates.JohnG@lt wrote:
Citizenship is required simply because it eliminates the chance of people unaffected by elections voting. Without citizenship, what's to stop a special interest from importing people to vote in favor of their platform in an election? Other than that, it has no value.Why's that? I don't see why the logic for one shouldn't hold true for the other.JohnG@lt wrote:
National borders are entirely arbitrary, yes. Localized borders, as in town lines etc, are not.
Yeah, multinational corporations really hold me by the balls Jesus H Christ, you're as rife with conspiracy theories and off your rocker as much as ATG.Turquoise wrote:
Serfdom is a matter of perspective. Serfdom knows no bounds in an age of multinational corporations. You're never truly free, unless you live on an island cut off from the rest of humanity. You'll always have one master or another to answer to.JohnG@lt wrote:
Used in any other way, it is simply a tool to bind people to the land in the manner of serfs.