BF2S Forums Question for shahter

poasting with epic fred

well, this is prolly for lulz, but anyway:

he's Peter the Great (Петр Великий) to us too. in russian schools he's being portrayed as a pretty controversial figure, but more on a positive side.
why?

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

well, this is prolly for lulz, but anyway:

he's Peter the Great (Петр Великий) to us too. in russian schools he's being portrayed as a pretty controversial figure, but more on a positive side.
why?

I was just wondering, wasn't really setting you up for anything. I just finished a biography on him and it was pretty positive. I just know you're anti-Western attitude and his reign did the most to 'Westernize' Russia. Figured from your attitude that he might be portrayed as a villain in your school systems.

ah, of course - any major figure who did anything undeniably positive for russia must have been "westernizing" it. how typical. and you know what? - he did no such thing. trying to remove russia from the stone age it was stuck in =/= westernizing it.

what i dont understand is why you cannot direct questions for one specific person to them in a PM.

you have PM'd me on issues/topics before, from your main account or alternate accounts.

guess you just wanted an opportunity to have an e-wank over the fact you've read a book recently, and picked-up soo much information from it that you want to share it in the public domain with all of us other bf2s'ers, awed and impressed by your wealth of scholarly knowledge on an esoteric and completely irrelevant historical figure that has nothing to do with current D&ST debates.



question for flaming_maniac

did you read any of those existentialist texts yet i'd really like to take the chance to discuss them at length with you in front of all the other forum members so i can look marginally more intelligent than before

Uzique wrote:

what i dont understand is why you cannot direct questions for one specific person to them in a PM.

you have PM'd me on issues/topics before, from your main account or alternate accounts.

guess you just wanted an opportunity to have an e-wank over the fact you've read a book recently, and picked-up soo much information from it that you want to share it in the public domain with all of us other bf2s'ers, awed and impressed by your wealth of scholarly knowledge on an esoteric and completely irrelevant historical figure that has nothing to do with current D&ST debates.



question for flaming_maniac

did you read any of those existentialist texts yet i'd really like to take the chance to discuss them at length with you in front of all the other forum members so i can look marginally more intelligent than before

Aww, someone is butthurt because I called him out on his own personal selfishness in a topic where he was preaching collectivism. Shucks.

well in fairness zeek you could have pm'd him that response

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

I was just wondering, wasn't really setting you up for anything. I just finished a biography on him and it was pretty positive. I just know you're anti-Western attitude and his reign did the most to 'Westernize' Russia. Figured from your attitude that he might be portrayed as a villain in your school systems.

ah, of course - any major figure who did anything undeniably positive for russia must have been "westernizing" it. how typical. and you know what? - he did no such thing. trying to remove russia from the stone age it was stuck in =/= westernizing it.

So you deny that he opened up Russia to Western ideas, employed thousands of Western craftsman to begin industries, copied Dutch designs for vessels, or that almost the entire military was officered by Westerners? What about the trip he took incognito to the West where he worked in a Dutch shipbuilding yard in order to learn the trade? He even married his sons and daughters off to Western nobles for the first time in Russian history. Just about the only thing Russian about him was his love of vodka

just so you know, there wasn't "vodka" as we know it today at the time of Peter the Great (the classic 40% ethanol solution was proposed a lot later by Mendeleev), just as there wasn't such thing as "western ideas" then. unlike those cretins who destroyed ussr by letting californication run wild around it, Peter was a very wise man. yeah, sure, he copied a lot of stuff - but he simply didn't want to invent the bicycle. if you read the actual story about him you'll realize that while he was young, enegretic, ambitious but still inexperienced he was many times betrayed and grossly taken advantage of by his "friends" from the west. but - and this is what makes his truly the great - he was usually able to pay back with the same coin. he also always observed russian national interests first, and had a very good understanding of which kinda "bicycles" would work here and which wouldn't.

what you also didn't mention, dude, is that, a great and enlightened leader with "western ideals" at heart as Peter was, he would give Stalin a real run for his money in terms of unbe-fucking-leavable attrocities he committed in order to achieve his goals. Stalin's gulags and repressions are child's play compared to what Peter did. but, you know what? - at the time that was exactly the way things was being done in the "progressive and enlightened" west.

p.s. caeks!

Last edited by Shahter (2010-07-29 13:48:10)

ta!

Mekstizzle wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

ah, of course - any major figure who did anything undeniably positive for russia must have been "westernizing" it. how typical. and you know what? - he did no such thing. trying to remove russia from the stone age it was stuck in =/= westernizing it.

So you deny that he opened up Russia to Western ideas, employed thousands of Western craftsman to begin industries, copied Dutch designs for vessels, or that almost the entire military was officered by Westerners? What about the trip he took incognito to the West where he worked in a Dutch shipbuilding yard in order to learn the trade? He even married his sons and daughters off to Western nobles for the first time in Russian history. Just about the only thing Russian about him was his love of vodka

Why the obsession with wanting some sort of glory or recognition of 'Western' culture having an impact on Russia anyway? Does it make you feel better or something? What is Western Europe anyway? What's the use in hanging onto the achievements of the Dutch other than, yeah, they're part of Western Europe. ''Hey I'm part of Western Europe too'' - Galt

This whole idea of clinging onto each other with the whole glory of Western Europe despite the fact that up until 1945 the entire continent, specifically that part of the continent, was fucking each other in worse ways than the darkest forests of Africa doesn't really make sense.

You missed my point entirely.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

So you deny that he opened up Russia to Western ideas, employed thousands of Western craftsman to begin industries, copied Dutch designs for vessels, or that almost the entire military was officered by Westerners? What about the trip he took incognito to the West where he worked in a Dutch shipbuilding yard in order to learn the trade? He even married his sons and daughters off to Western nobles for the first time in Russian history. Just about the only thing Russian about him was his love of vodka

Why the obsession with wanting some sort of glory or recognition of 'Western' culture having an impact on Russia anyway? Does it make you feel better or something? What is Western Europe anyway? What's the use in hanging onto the achievements of the Dutch other than, yeah, they're part of Western Europe. ''Hey I'm part of Western Europe too'' - Galt

This whole idea of clinging onto each other with the whole glory of Western Europe despite the fact that up until 1945 the entire continent, specifically that part of the continent, was fucking each other in worse ways than the darkest forests of Africa doesn't really make sense.

You missed my point entirely.

I didn't care for your point, I just looked beyond that.

eleven bravo wrote:

Ive got the made for tv movie about this guy that was made in the 80's on VHS

scsb

/sigh.
dude... how to phrase that... i don't remember telling you that i formed my opinion on Peter the Great based on what i've been tough in school. if anything, the ussr history books were, imo, a lot closer to what i've posted above than what they are teaching about Peter now.