You're welcome! You seem to know that Fox News is a reputable source, so I thought I'd commend you for it.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thanks for adding, moron.alexb wrote:
Fox News.
Last edited by alexb (2010-07-28 19:08:51)
I always get a kick out of those that maintain the only "reputable source" is the one they agree with.alexb wrote:
You're welcome! You seem to know that Fox News is a reputable source, so I thought I'd commend you for it.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thanks for adding, moron.alexb wrote:
Fox News.
the irony is killing melowing wrote:
I always get a kick out of those that maintain the only "reputable source" is the one they agree with.
Fuck Israel
Did you even bother to read past the FOX news link and what G@lt stated or are you just that fucking dense?alexb wrote:
You're welcome! You seem to know that Fox News is a reputable source, so I thought I'd commend you for it.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thanks for adding, moron.alexb wrote:
Fox News.
Did you read the thread?13/f/taiwan wrote:
Did you even bother to read past the FOX news link and what G@lt stated or are you just that fucking dense?alexb wrote:
You're welcome! You seem to know that Fox News is a reputable source, so I thought I'd commend you for it.JohnG@lt wrote:
Thanks for adding, moron.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
You can ignore the homosexual bit if you want, but I'm sure refusing to counsel someone in general (let alone a school council, and because they're homo) is a one way ticket to a grade U when taking a course on counselling. Usually when you fail you also get kicked out. You can ignore the personal feelings and all that and see it in a purely academic way if you want.
It's like taking a course in Computing and then rejecting binary. Then complaining when they kick you out. I mean seriously.
It's like taking a course in Computing and then rejecting binary. Then complaining when they kick you out. I mean seriously.
Perhaps I phrased that wrong. A non-private guidance counsellor in a situation where the kids have access to no other help is the last person that should conduct their work based on bigoted beliefs. If they're capable of keeping their personal and private lives separate, as any good professional should, then there wouldn't be a problem.lowing wrote:
Yes because before they were a guidance counsellor, they had no life experiences to base opinions on and no views on any issues.ghettoperson wrote:
Oh of course, I agree. A high school counsellor is the last person that should harbour bigoted views.
Your post is a perfect example of the fantasy land on which most of you think you live.
how so? I have never attacked a source over the information as the basis of my argument. I think by doing so all you are doing is showing you have no REAL argument to pose.Dilbert_X wrote:
the irony is killing melowing wrote:
I always get a kick out of those that maintain the only "reputable source" is the one they agree with.
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-29 06:12:12)
An argument has been made that she might be more professional and more responsible by recusing herself from that issue. Where any other counsellor might not give a fuck and offer bad advice based on their personal feelings, this lady decided it best not to try and influence them at all.ghettoperson wrote:
Perhaps I phrased that wrong. A non-private guidance counsellor in a situation where the kids have access to no other help is the last person that should conduct their work based on bigoted beliefs. If they're capable of keeping their personal and private lives separate, as any good professional should, then there wouldn't be a problem.lowing wrote:
Yes because before they were a guidance counsellor, they had no life experiences to base opinions on and no views on any issues.ghettoperson wrote:
Oh of course, I agree. A high school counsellor is the last person that should harbour bigoted views.
Your post is a perfect example of the fantasy land on which most of you think you live.
If this were the case, is she still bad?
You don't admire her views and professionalism by saying that other people are worse because they're just hiding their feelings. Most people don't have those sort of feelings in the first place, that's the whole point.lowing wrote:
An argument has been made that she might be more professional and more responsible by recusing herself from that issue. Where any other counsellor might not give a fuck and offer bad advice based on their personal feelings, this lady decided it best not to try and influence them at all.ghettoperson wrote:
Perhaps I phrased that wrong. A non-private guidance counsellor in a situation where the kids have access to no other help is the last person that should conduct their work based on bigoted beliefs. If they're capable of keeping their personal and private lives separate, as any good professional should, then there wouldn't be a problem.lowing wrote:
Yes because before they were a guidance counsellor, they had no life experiences to base opinions on and no views on any issues.
Your post is a perfect example of the fantasy land on which most of you think you live.
If this were the case, is she still bad?
'If this were the case' - How often is that the case? Really.
You're assuming that she's some sort of outspoken shining beacon who should be admired amongst the tight lipped masses.
Like I said before, academically speaking, what she's doing is the same as taking a computing course, rejecting something like binary and then complaining when she gets thrown off. Her views don't fit the course. Anyone can see that. You don't take a course with the mindset of going in there and changing it around and teaching everyone else, it's never worked like that. You do the course as is required, earn the titles that it brings and then you do what you want once you're back on the outside.
You don't think MOST people have an opinion on homosexuallity?? Really? Next!!Mekstizzle wrote:
You don't admire her views and professionalism by saying that other people are worse because they're just hiding their feelings. Most people don't have those sort of feelings in the first place, that's the whole point.lowing wrote:
An argument has been made that she might be more professional and more responsible by recusing herself from that issue. Where any other counsellor might not give a fuck and offer bad advice based on their personal feelings, this lady decided it best not to try and influence them at all.ghettoperson wrote:
Perhaps I phrased that wrong. A non-private guidance counsellor in a situation where the kids have access to no other help is the last person that should conduct their work based on bigoted beliefs. If they're capable of keeping their personal and private lives separate, as any good professional should, then there wouldn't be a problem.
If this were the case, is she still bad?
'If this were the case' - How often is that the case? Really.
You're assuming that she's some sort of outspoken shining beacon who should be admired amongst the tight lipped masses.
Like I said before, academically speaking, what she's doing is the same as taking a computing course, rejecting something like binary and then complaining when she gets thrown off. Her views don't fit the course. Anyone can see that. You don't take a course with the mindset of going in there and changing it around and teaching everyone else, it's never worked like that. You do the course as is required, earn the titles that it brings and then you do what you want once you're back on the outside.
She wasn't "changing anything around", she basically admitted she is not qualified to council this particular issue.
i don't get it. what do you mean by "issue"? homosexuality?lowing wrote:
she basically admitted she is not qualified to council this particular issue.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Certainly not on any level of hate or malice, or on a level where they would go out of their way to beat down on them, especially professionally. Especially the kind of people that choose to go into counselling. Keep thinking that this lady is better than everyone else though, if it makes you feel at peace.lowing wrote:
You don't think MOST people have an opinion on homosexuallity?? Really? Next!!Mekstizzle wrote:
You don't admire her views and professionalism by saying that other people are worse because they're just hiding their feelings. Most people don't have those sort of feelings in the first place, that's the whole point.lowing wrote:
An argument has been made that she might be more professional and more responsible by recusing herself from that issue. Where any other counsellor might not give a fuck and offer bad advice based on their personal feelings, this lady decided it best not to try and influence them at all.
If this were the case, is she still bad?
'If this were the case' - How often is that the case? Really.
You're assuming that she's some sort of outspoken shining beacon who should be admired amongst the tight lipped masses.
Like I said before, academically speaking, what she's doing is the same as taking a computing course, rejecting something like binary and then complaining when she gets thrown off. Her views don't fit the course. Anyone can see that. You don't take a course with the mindset of going in there and changing it around and teaching everyone else, it's never worked like that. You do the course as is required, earn the titles that it brings and then you do what you want once you're back on the outside.
Then she isn't qualified for the course or the honours it brings. So when she gets booted out, there's not much to complain about.She wasn't "changing anything around", she basically admitted she is not qualified to council this particular issue.
Stop trying to change my words around anyway, I didn't even say that most people don't have an opinion on homo's. I said most people don't have those sort of feelings (that she does). Sheesh, where do you get this stuff from.
She was paying the money to go to school, it shouldn't be the schools job to decide if she's qualified for it.
I read Graduate program. What I feel is morally wrong for a PUBLIC school guidance counselors might actually fit in well in a Christian/Catholic school. My morally compass says you should NOT discriminate for any reason, but she was paying the school for her education and shouldn't be judged on her beliefs. Instead of kicking her out, they should have just graded her on the subject and not issued out the credits for the class or allowed her to graduate in that subject.
I read Graduate program. What I feel is morally wrong for a PUBLIC school guidance counselors might actually fit in well in a Christian/Catholic school. My morally compass says you should NOT discriminate for any reason, but she was paying the school for her education and shouldn't be judged on her beliefs. Instead of kicking her out, they should have just graded her on the subject and not issued out the credits for the class or allowed her to graduate in that subject.
should they allow imbeciles into schools if the pay is right then, dude?cpt.fass1 wrote:
She was paying the money to go to school, it shouldn't be the schools job to decide if she's qualified for it.
Last edited by Shahter (2010-07-29 08:57:30)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
If they can get into the school, then yes?Shahter wrote:
should they allow imbeciles into schools if the pay is right then, dude?cpt.fass1 wrote:
She was paying the money to go to school, it shouldn't be the schools job to decide if she's qualified for it.
So if a person is fails every class they should be allowed to continue their education simply because they paid?cpt.fass1 wrote:
If they can get into the school, then yes?Shahter wrote:
should they allow imbeciles into schools if the pay is right then, dude?cpt.fass1 wrote:
She was paying the money to go to school, it shouldn't be the schools job to decide if she's qualified for it.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
If they CAN get into the school. Schools have a set of guidelines to get into them, simply put she should have failed the class not kicked out of school.JohnG@lt wrote:
So if a person is fails every class they should be allowed to continue their education simply because they paid?cpt.fass1 wrote:
If they can get into the school, then yes?Shahter wrote:
should they allow imbeciles into schools if the pay is right then, dude?
See I like to look at the big picture, where her fucked up sense of morality wouldn't and shouldn't ever be tolerated in PUBLIC schools, it might actually fit in at Private schools and she shouldn't be denied her right to freedom of speech or thought.
, She was not projecting "hate or malice" she did not "go out of her way to beat down on them". Where did it say any of that?Mekstizzle wrote:
Certainly not on any level of hate or malice, or on a level where they would go out of their way to beat down on them, especially professionally. Especially the kind of people that choose to go into counselling. Keep thinking that this lady is better than everyone else though, if it makes you feel at peace.lowing wrote:
You don't think MOST people have an opinion on homosexuallity?? Really? Next!!Mekstizzle wrote:
You don't admire her views and professionalism by saying that other people are worse because they're just hiding their feelings. Most people don't have those sort of feelings in the first place, that's the whole point.
'If this were the case' - How often is that the case? Really.
You're assuming that she's some sort of outspoken shining beacon who should be admired amongst the tight lipped masses.
Like I said before, academically speaking, what she's doing is the same as taking a computing course, rejecting something like binary and then complaining when she gets thrown off. Her views don't fit the course. Anyone can see that. You don't take a course with the mindset of going in there and changing it around and teaching everyone else, it's never worked like that. You do the course as is required, earn the titles that it brings and then you do what you want once you're back on the outside.Then she isn't qualified for the course or the honours it brings. So when she gets booted out, there's not much to complain about.She wasn't "changing anything around", she basically admitted she is not qualified to council this particular issue.
She has an opinion and that opinion she admitted would interfere with her judgement in this matter. She should be applauded for her honestly and integrity for recusing herself from that situation. MOST people admittedly or not, would rather not be around openly gay people. Especially when they are "acting gay". Sorry for the lack of PC but there is the truth and here is more truth, if you are gay and "act gay" you are being laughed at ridiculed made fun off talked about in circles etc..Do not think that you are not. Welcome to the real world.
I see, so in order to be qualified for any course such as this, you are not allowed any opinions, life experience, bias, prejudice etc....In other words, you should have been raised in a bubble with no outside influences to sway the opinion you are taught to have.
but that's the point - she DID fail. in her position she's - and rightfully so - expected to be able to get over her religious prejudices and do certain stuff in certaint situations. being unable to meet those expectations she got kicked out.cpt.fass1 wrote:
If they CAN get into the school. Schools have a set of guidelines to get into them, simply put she should have failed the class not kicked out of school.JohnG@lt wrote:
So if a person is fails every class they should be allowed to continue their education simply because they paid?cpt.fass1 wrote:
If they can get into the school, then yes?
well, as idiotic as it sounds, yes, if some religious cretins want their children - or themselves for that matter - fucked up especially hard, they should probably have a right to have that done.cpt.fass1 wrote:
See I like to look at the big picture, where her fucked up sense of morality wouldn't and shouldn't ever be tolerated in PUBLIC schools, it might actually fit in at Private schools and she shouldn't be denied her right to freedom of speech or thought.
Last edited by Shahter (2010-07-29 12:40:26)
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Why does this fact detract from the credibility of the article? Why does this fact make anything in the article less likely to be true?Phrozenbot wrote:
As soon as I read this part, the article lost all credibility. Fox portrays the women as being discriminated against, yet she discriminates as well. Wow.
Also, the law protects everyone, even people who discriminate.
She should have been allowed to complete her education. And then be perfectly free to be fired from any school for not doing her job when she refuses counseling to a gay student.
HollisHurlbut wrote:
Why does this fact detract from the credibility of the article? Why does this fact make anything in the article less likely to be true?Phrozenbot wrote:
As soon as I read this part, the article lost all credibility. Fox portrays the women as being discriminated against, yet she discriminates as well. Wow.
Also, the law protects everyone, even people who discriminate.
She should have been allowed to complete her education. And then be perfectly free to be fired from any school for not doing her job when she refuses counseling to a gay student.
It was twisted to make the women look victimized. The article first states she was removed from graduating for her beliefs that homosexuality is wrong, then clarifies that she was removed because she refused to counsel homosexual clients. Her personal beliefs is one thing, but she apparently actively discriminated against others, unless I'm mistaken, and that is entirely a different thing. Eastern Michigan University was completely just in removing her from graduation. If she graduated, she most likely would have continued on this way, resulting in her termination. Do you not think she would then file a lawsuit against any school who terminates her? She has already filed suit against EMU.Tedesco said both cases should be a warning to Christians attending public colleges and universities.
“Public universities are imposing the ideological stances of private groups on their students,” he said. “If you don’t comply, you will be kicked out. It’s scary stuff and it’s not a difficult thing to see what’s coming down the pike.”
My earlier comment was based on the articles clear lack of NPOV and how this was purely an assault on Christian's and their beliefs.
Last edited by Phrozenbot (2010-07-30 23:47:14)
Yes, but.HollisHurlbut wrote:
Why does this fact detract from the credibility of the article? Why does this fact make anything in the article less likely to be true?Phrozenbot wrote:
As soon as I read this part, the article lost all credibility. Fox portrays the women as being discriminated against, yet she discriminates as well. Wow.
Also, the law protects everyone, even people who discriminate.
She should have been allowed to complete her education. And then be perfectly free to be fired from any school for not doing her job when she refuses counseling to a gay student.
Funding could be an issue here though. This is a public school and probably receives a fair amount of public monies to operate. Should this affect the schools ability to say who can and cannot finish their education? What if a private college (yes, still receive public funding) was to do the same thing?
Most of the time, if not all, a private party or business should be able to discriminate at will. In this case there is public funding, the school should not be able to tell her how to think. Their job is to educate her, not police her thoughts. If she leaves school and gets fired from her job because she is not performing her duties to the standard a business has set as acceptable, so be it.
"The President does not have power under the Constitution to unilaterally authorize a military attack in a situation that does not involve stopping an actual or imminent threat to the nation" - Barack Obama (a freshman senator from Illinios)
You're ignoring the hit to the schools reputation that would come out of any high profile firing. A schools reputation is all that it has. Schools kick people out regularly for failing academically. This is no different.LividBovine wrote:
Yes, but.HollisHurlbut wrote:
Why does this fact detract from the credibility of the article? Why does this fact make anything in the article less likely to be true?Phrozenbot wrote:
As soon as I read this part, the article lost all credibility. Fox portrays the women as being discriminated against, yet she discriminates as well. Wow.
Also, the law protects everyone, even people who discriminate.
She should have been allowed to complete her education. And then be perfectly free to be fired from any school for not doing her job when she refuses counseling to a gay student.
Funding could be an issue here though. This is a public school and probably receives a fair amount of public monies to operate. Should this affect the schools ability to say who can and cannot finish their education? What if a private college (yes, still receive public funding) was to do the same thing?
Most of the time, if not all, a private party or business should be able to discriminate at will. In this case there is public funding, the school should not be able to tell her how to think. Their job is to educate her, not police her thoughts. If she leaves school and gets fired from her job because she is not performing her duties to the standard a business has set as acceptable, so be it.
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-07-31 06:42:46)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat