X2 all the way. BURN IN HELL INTEL
it also depends on how long till you will upgrade again. i went dual core cause it will be along time til i upgrade and by then games will be taking advantage of dual cores.Towelly wrote:
Well if I could stretch all the way I'd have an FX-60, but since us mere mortals can't afford that the x2 4200 is a fine processor.
Any of the x2 series are great all round processors, though if your only going to be gaming I would suggest either going with the 3800+ or stretch to the 4000+ shouldn't be much more money, and performs better in games then the x2 3800.
take the dual core and that processor is amazing at over clocking.....
yeah, but thats why i said with a LARGER l2 cache. they've tested this all the time. if you put a 3200+ 754 pin with say a 1mb cache against a 3200+ 939 pin with a more common cache size the 754 wins. as soon as i find the link to said test, i'll post itjaymz9350 wrote:
you also lose a lot of memory bandwidth due to the lack of dual channel on 754Ender2309 wrote:
if you buy a socket 754 with a larger L2 cache you actually out perform a 939 single core for less cash. also, i don't know if the dual core actually does anything at all for gaming performance, but hey, if its the same cost i say the second, just because dual core sounds cooler
i would recomend the dual core as you can have background tasks running without having a hit on gaming performance
yeah but AGP is dead man so is socket 754, never ever buy old technology, I REPEAT SOCKET 754 IS DEAD AND SO IS AGP
Here's good article to read about dual cores vs single cores. http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?Pa … icleID=461 I bet you'll be shocked of the out come of the testing they do. Yesturday I picked up a used 754 Athlon 64 3700+ for 65 bucks. It runs at 2.4 ghz and has a 1meg cache. To upgrade from my 754 3000+ without shelling out for total system upgrade. Only thing is it's HTT is 1600 vs 2000 of the 939. Memory controler with is only 64 bit vs 128 bit of 939. Total Processor-to-system Bandwidth 9.6 GB/s 754-pin and 14.4 GB/s for 939-pin. All 754's run 200mhz faster then the 939 they are equal too. A 754 will never run the same as a 939. I got my 754 3700+ running at 4000+ with changing the clock mutiplier in my bios. But it will never turly be a 939 4000+. But now I can get another year out of my pc before a total system upgrade.
If you doing a total pc upgrade go with X2 939 SLI setup. But if you have no plans on ever adding a second video card. You can save some cash and buy a non sli pci express mb. Good sli mb's are not cheap right now. And in year or so if you decide you do want a second video card. The sli mb's will be down in price since new and improved stuff comes out every few months. Also if your going to run 2 video cards in SLI you going to need to get a really to good power supply. There's alot of power supplys out there the claim to be able to handle SLI but they can't. THere's alot more then just going out and buying the parts and putting it all together. Do a fair amount of web research before you by. Even call or stop by your local PC shop and ask them questions about what kinds of stuff they are building for their customers. Not talking about bestbuy or compusa. Remember you only get what your pay for. Pcs are like cars money is the factor in how fast you want to go.
If you doing a total pc upgrade go with X2 939 SLI setup. But if you have no plans on ever adding a second video card. You can save some cash and buy a non sli pci express mb. Good sli mb's are not cheap right now. And in year or so if you decide you do want a second video card. The sli mb's will be down in price since new and improved stuff comes out every few months. Also if your going to run 2 video cards in SLI you going to need to get a really to good power supply. There's alot of power supplys out there the claim to be able to handle SLI but they can't. THere's alot more then just going out and buying the parts and putting it all together. Do a fair amount of web research before you by. Even call or stop by your local PC shop and ask them questions about what kinds of stuff they are building for their customers. Not talking about bestbuy or compusa. Remember you only get what your pay for. Pcs are like cars money is the factor in how fast you want to go.
Last edited by Breadman (2006-05-02 21:50:57)
x2{M5}Sniper3 wrote:
Out of those two, I would go for the second one.
If I was you I would spend 40 more dollars and get an AMD 64 X2 4200+.
Overclocks better as well.
i would like to see that. i just find it hard to belive the extra cach out ways the double mem bandwidth on 939...especially since amd k8's aren't very cache dependant like intelsEnder2309 wrote:
yeah, but thats why i said with a LARGER l2 cache. they've tested this all the time. if you put a 3200+ 754 pin with say a 1mb cache against a 3200+ 939 pin with a more common cache size the 754 wins. as soon as i find the link to said test, i'll post itjaymz9350 wrote:
you also lose a lot of memory bandwidth due to the lack of dual channel on 754Ender2309 wrote:
if you buy a socket 754 with a larger L2 cache you actually out perform a 939 single core for less cash. also, i don't know if the dual core actually does anything at all for gaming performance, but hey, if its the same cost i say the second, just because dual core sounds cooler
i would recomend the dual core as you can have background tasks running without having a hit on gaming performance
Hey Breadman thanks for the link, that was just what I was looking for!Breadman wrote:
Here's good article to read about dual cores vs single cores. http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?Pa … icleID=461
[...]
You can save some cash and buy a non sli pci express mb. Good sli mb's are not cheap right now. And in year or so if you decide you do want a second video card. The sli mb's will be down in price since new and improved stuff comes out every few months. Also if your going to run 2 video cards in SLI you going to need to get a really to good power supply.
I only have one graphic card, and wasn't planning on getting a new one. But thanks for advice anyway..
(My components:
Geforce Nvidia 6600GT
1,5 GB DDR RAM (3x500MB)
200GB HD)
From the article (http://www.viaarena.com/default.aspx?Pa … icleID=461) and from Toms Hardware (http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html) and from what you guys say (with quite some exceptions lol), it really seemes like the 3800+ is by far the best bargain for me at this point.. I mainly use the PC for playing BF2, so while there are chances that games (BF3??) may start utilizing the dual core system, as of now and a coupple of years ahead, the single core sounds better. And also, in a coupple of years other stuff might have evolved too (like the stuff they are planning later this year?), so things will get outdated anyhow..?
Well, I still have to wait till the end of the week before I have the money to order the parts, so now perhaps you guys have any suggestions for the best mobo for the AMD Athlon 64 3800+? Thanks again for all the great advices!
This is a serious question is it just me or does amd like to make the fans really really loud i had my pc on my desk for like 3 years my intel broke got a amd and now the damn thing needs a closet to go in to make it quiet. THe think sounds like a rocket taking off I got another computer guy to take a look and he said thats how it works its loud but its better than intel...... I hate pcs
Umm hasn´t that got more to do with the fan on the cpu?? You could get a bigger/better fan? Mine was like that too, but I got a new, a "Salman", and its much better now..
I'm sure those who suggested a X2 3800+ are all saying "Aw you should've gone for the X2!" inside right now, myself partially included. However, it's your decision. I suppose that as a short-term investment that it's not too bad to go for a single-core since you aim on gaming on that machine. I have a different view and upgrade plan so I ended opting for the X2 when I upgraded. It just shows that we all got our reasons for going with one part over another despite the majority suggesting otherwise.WinstontheWolf wrote:
Well, I still have to wait till the end of the week before I have the money to order the parts, so now perhaps you guys have any suggestions for the best mobo for the AMD Athlon 64 3800+? Thanks again for all the great advices!
As for motherboard selection, this is one of the harder parts... since there's so little differences in performance between one motherboard to the next. The overclocking ability will show you the difference but at stock speed, it's hard to say which one to go for. There are numerous motherboard brands that I have seen used and all of them have differing features that'll influence your buying decision.
DFI motherboards are overclocker's best friend. Plenty of options and solid overclocking stability. I have heard some random or isolated RAM issue but it seems very farfetched and not very widespread. It's likely something one shouldn't worry much about.
ASUS motherboards are what I'd like to call the Lexus of motherboard. Expensive, worth the price for some. Opposite for others. There may be a model that best suits your needs.
EPoX, the former overclocking friend, but still a viable competitor and option to consider. Parts are very good and I am using an EPoX motherboard right now. Finding an EPoX board for sale of a particular exotic model, however, may prove to be difficult.
MSI is about as average for a motherboard as it can get. They're affordable and have good parts and features to go with it. Some of their models include some interesting trinkets that makes diagnostics quite easy. Beware of their so-called "rounded" IDE cables. The ones that came with the K8N Neo2 Platinum were imitation rounds and not true rounded cables. Need an example? Take your average IDE cable and crumple the ribbon. That's what it looks like.
Gigabyte, they make decent motherboards and their dual-BIOS feature is practically unmatched. Solid stock motherboards, but not worth going for if you have the slightest intention of overclocking. They can still be used for overclocking but you're not going to get very far.
Asrock, one particular motherboard model has the unique feature of providing both AGP8x and PCI Express x16. It's a solid board that alleviates the pain associated with buying a PCI Express video card to fully complete the upgrade. Consider this board as a placeholder to last you at least a year.
There are plenty of other companies but out of all of the mentioned, they are the ones worth looking into. Factor in things such as firewall, SLI, gigabit, RAID, SATA-II+NCQ, overclocking potentials, and layout designs. Beware of using 3rd party fans that provide you with their own retention brackets. The MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum board I used to have was a major major MAJOR pain in the butt to deal with. The backplate was metal and stickied onto the board. It delayed the upgrade for a while because not only do I want to remove it but I also had major fears I may end up breaking something. The EPoX board I use now aren't stickied and removing the backplate was very easy. This is just a FYI note in case you use something like the Zalman 7000Cu.
This ought to cover most of what's needed to know. You'll be able to narrow your choices down to about 5 or less when you factor in all of your requirements. Post back if you need personal opinions on a particular model.
If, as you say, the graphics card is as important for gaming as the processor, why have you just said what your processor is? What vid card do you have?slicknic wrote:
well first what video card do u ahve, this can be as important for gaming as processor (expecially bf2). I have an 64 3700+ and i can run bf2 high settings if i wanted. The dual core doesnt really do anything for bf2. but either is a good choice and a tough decision, but this should help
http://www23.tomshardware.com/cpu.html
qft, +1sixshot wrote:
The MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum board I used to have was a major major MAJOR pain in the butt to deal with.
It couldn't run my Corsair 2-2-2-5 memory and 6800 Ultra video card at proper speeds without crashing Unreal every five seconds. I was rather irritated at the glowing reviews it got from websites (who apparently wanted to continue receiving parts from MSI for testing). Swapped it as soon as I could for an Asus A8V which, ironically enough for VIA, was smooth and worlds more stable than that MSI.
Well, that's been over with since around Dec 2004. Around spring/summer '05, the local computer shop called up and left a message saying they "had my motherboard ready." Well, my ASUS was sitting two feet from my face, so I assumed they meant that they RMA'd the Neo2 and got it back. I've always meant to call back and see what the deal was...if they screwed up and didn't return my payment for the Neo2 on trade-in, or screwed up and and were going to give it to me for free. For some reason, I've never had the energy to follow through with it.
Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-05-03 23:49:44)
Weird... because when I had it running with my setup, it was a smooth ride. I had no issue with anything other than the backplate that I had to force off to get my Zalman heatsink installed. That and the so-called rounded cable they included were the only two beef I had with that particular model. I don't know if things have improved since then in their nForce4-based boards. The board has been pretty solid in the times I have used it. Interface, overclock stability, and tweaking options are all pretty good and on the average side of things. The board quality itself was solid and for a modest overclock, I was able to run everything stable. I had minor mishaps but having not much experience in overclocking on the A64 platform probably contributed to those. In the end, I still would consider that board as a viable option, as long as you use A64-mountable heatsinks.unnamednewbie13 wrote:
qft, +1sixshot wrote:
The MSI K8N Neo2 Platinum board I used to have was a major major MAJOR pain in the butt to deal with.
It couldn't run my Corsair 2-2-2-5 memory and 6800 Ultra video card at proper speeds without crashing Unreal every five seconds. I was rather irritated at the glowing reviews it got from websites (who apparently wanted to continue receiving parts from MSI for testing). Swapped it as soon as I could for an Asus A8V which, ironically enough for VIA, was smooth and worlds more stable than that MSI.
It's probably one of those isolated incidents but it is true what the reviewers said, the board is rock solid as a product. All those horror stories that people had with a particular brand or model just happens to be that one combination out of a billion that doesn't mesh well. People want something of a fix... but alas, the only other alternative is to simply get another model. Sucks tho, since some things are simply out of your control. My luck with hardware seems to be good... as I have yet to encounter a hardware combination that has utterly failed on me. *knocks on wood* I just hope mentioning it doesn't jinx it all up.
Dont take a X2 for gaming... I have a X2 4800+ in my 1st. system and with the same hardware, like Mobo, RAMs and GFX my AMD 64 4000 working in the 2nd system is way better for gaming. Even a AMD64 3200+ is faster than the X2 3800+... I havent tried overclocking yet.
If you wanna try some overclocking I suggest a opteron 144 or 146. If you cool them well you´ll get the speed of a FX57 for 1/3 the money.
Dualcores are the future, but atm only the FX60 (way to expensive) is above the par.
If you wanna try some overclocking I suggest a opteron 144 or 146. If you cool them well you´ll get the speed of a FX57 for 1/3 the money.
Dualcores are the future, but atm only the FX60 (way to expensive) is above the par.
I have not seen many people mention that you might want to wait a month. With the new AM2 chip coming out....you might be able to scrape up a great 939slot cheap. I dont THINK AMD has confirmed the new AM2 chips will be 939 compatible - I am sure people here could tell you....but the point is, if AMD switches over to a non 939 slot....then the existing stuff on the market will get cheap real fast.
My 2 cents - I put together a AMD X2 4800+ with an Asus A8N32SLI-Deluxe motherboard and it has been working great for 1 month now. No overclocking or anything and BF2 runs FAST and SMOOTH. I had some difficultly with the dual core at first - but I think I solved that with some dual core hot fixes.
If you do go with the dual core - make sure you search this forum for the driver and hot fix advice - the game won't run very reliably unless you install the Windows dual core hot fix.
My 2 cents - I put together a AMD X2 4800+ with an Asus A8N32SLI-Deluxe motherboard and it has been working great for 1 month now. No overclocking or anything and BF2 runs FAST and SMOOTH. I had some difficultly with the dual core at first - but I think I solved that with some dual core hot fixes.
If you do go with the dual core - make sure you search this forum for the driver and hot fix advice - the game won't run very reliably unless you install the Windows dual core hot fix.
The new Intel D805, this processor is amazing. Beat FX-60 and Intel Extreme D965. And costs only about 130 $.
Thanks again for awesome reply, Sixshot.. Well, as I mentioned, I have a 6600GT- card, so I only found this one mobo where it said it had agp slot: http://www.mpx.no/aspx/produkt/prdinfov … lid=54611. Do you think this would do for a 4000+? (I think I might go up to that, so my BF runs real nice.. Sorry to disappoint you dualcorefans, but I had to disappoint someone:/ ..). Do you know any other/better I could use with AMD 4000+ 939 socket and the 6600GT?sixshot wrote:
Asrock, one particular motherboard model has the unique feature of providing both AGP8x and PCI Express x16. It's a solid board that alleviates the pain associated with buying a PCI Express video card to fully complete the upgrade. Consider this board as a placeholder to last you at least a year.
[...]
You'll be able to narrow your choices down to about 5 or less when you factor in all of your requirements. Post back if you need personal opinions on a particular model.
I have to point that they only have ASUS, MSI and ASRock-boards in this shop, but I'll gain some on ordering from them since I'm also ordering cpu from there.. And anyway, as you mentioned, I'd have to get a ASRockboard if I want to use my 6600GT AGP-card with the new CPU, wouldn't I?
As I mentioned above, I have a 6600GT graphic card (AGP), so the way I have understood it, I will have to get a ASRock mobo (http://www.mpx.no/aspx/produkt/prdinfov … plid=54611) for it to be compatible.. Do you think this will allow the Opteron to overclock as well? If not, would you recommend any mobos for the Opteron that also will work with the AGP 6600GT?fon|sl4y3r wrote:
If you wanna try some overclocking I suggest a opteron 144 or 146. If you cool them well you´ll get the speed of a FX57 for 1/3 the money.
Can't wait.. Must.. play.. BF2.. NOW! Lol.. As, for the X2 4800+, I'm sure that kicks serious ass:O, but that one is a bit to expensive..Tunacommy wrote:
I have not seen many people mention that you might want to wait a month. With the new AM2 chip coming out....you might be able to scrape up a great 939slot cheap. I dont THINK AMD has confirmed the new AM2 chips will be 939 compatible - I am sure people here could tell you....but the point is, if AMD switches over to a non 939 slot....then the existing stuff on the market will get cheap real fast.
My 2 cents - I put together a AMD X2 4800+ with an Asus A8N32SLI-Deluxe motherboard and it has been working great for 1 month now. No overclocking or anything and BF2 runs FAST and SMOOTH. I had some difficultly with the dual core at first - but I think I solved that with some dual core hot fixes.
If you do go with the dual core - make sure you search this forum for the driver and hot fix advice - the game won't run very reliably unless you install the Windows dual core hot fix.
Eh are you talking about this: "Intel Pentium D 805 2.66GHz Socket LGA775, 2MB"?? It doesn't seem very powerful..?Zeibach wrote:
The new Intel D805, this processor is amazing. Beat FX-60 and Intel Extreme D965. And costs only about 130 $.
Btw one karma for you Sixshot;)
The model that you linked to is the one I spoke of. Unless I am mistaken, there's very little to no performance penalty going with either interface for video card. Meaning, you get the maximum performance possible out of both AGP8x and PCI Express x16. The board should be able to do just fine for a S939 motherboard. As I said, it's a good placeholder to last you at least a year. This is taken literally since I know that A) Socket AM2 release is near, B) Conroe will throw everything off, and C) you're seeking an upgrade now. If the system you are upgrading to is intended to last you well over a year until the next upgrade batch, then this board ought to be just fine.WinstontheWolf wrote:
Thanks again for awesome reply, Sixshot.. Well, as I mentioned, I have a 6600GT- card, so I only found this one mobo where it said it had agp slot: http://www.mpx.no/aspx/produkt/prdinfov … plid=54611. Do you think this would do for a 4000+? (I think I might go up to that, so my BF runs real nice.. Sorry to disappoint you dualcorefans, but I had to disappoint someone:/ ..). Do you know any other/better I could use with AMD 4000+ 939 socket and the 6600GT?
I have to point that they only have ASUS, MSI and ASRock-boards in this shop, but I'll gain some on ordering from them since I'm also ordering cpu from there.. And anyway, as you mentioned, I'd have to get a ASRockboard if I want to use my 6600GT AGP-card with the new CPU, wouldn't I?
The 6600GT card you have will perform just fine and will last you until the next upgrade, which will likely be a PCI Express video card. In either case, the motherboard is a good option for those limited in funds and cannot afford to scrap the video card for current-generation PCI Express. I say go for it if you absolutely need to keep the card for a while longer.
I think the overclocking potential of that Asrock board is very limited. You may get some overclock but not the kind that one can expect from other brands like MSI, EPoX, ASUS, or DFI. All of them have some level of potentials for overclocking and I seem to recall that this board model isn't the kind for overclocking.WinstontheWolf wrote:
(...) Do you think this will allow the Opteron to overclock as well? If not, would you recommend any mobos for the Opteron that also will work with the AGP 6600GT?
I pity da... erm... nevermind... There's probably about 10 of us (maybe more) who can tell you on a performance level what we think of that processor... and then there's perhaps about 100 and possibly more who'd tell you flat out (ie. without thought) what they think of that processor.Zeibach wrote:
The new Intel D805, this processor is amazing. Beat FX-60 and Intel Extreme D965. And costs only about 130 $.
Damn right. I dont think the Asrock-board is a good choice for overclocking. If you wanna stay with your GFX and actuall Motherboard, look out for a AMD64 4000+ tray and a good Cooler, about 260€ (~340US$)sixshot wrote:
I think the overclocking potential of that Asrock board is very limited. You may get some overclock but not the kind that one can expect from other brands like MSI, EPoX, ASUS, or DFI. All of them have some level of potentials for overclocking and I seem to recall that this board model isn't the kind for overclocking.WinstontheWolf wrote:
(...) Do you think this will allow the Opteron to overclock as well? If not, would you recommend any mobos for the Opteron that also will work with the AGP 6600GT?
Havent seen or tested myself, but if you refer to this http://www2.tomshardware.de/cpu/20060427/index.html this CPU is damn cheap and beats a FX60 more then well enough.Zeibach wrote:
he new Intel D805, this processor is amazing. Beat FX-60 and Intel Extreme D965. And costs only about 130 $.
Last edited by fon|sl4y3r (2006-05-05 08:00:40)
Ok almost ready to order Just one more thing..
I was thinking of buying a new power supply with the CPU and mobo, too. How many W is necessary to handle the 4000+, and do I have to consider compatibility here too? F.ex the Enermax 460W ATX 24 pins, is it ok to use it with a 4000+ and a 6600GT video card? You know which ones of these would be appropriate for a 4000+: http://www.mpx.no/aspx/produkter.aspx?l … amp;g2=372 ?
Pentium D 805 lol I don't think I've got the nerves for that overclocking!
I was thinking of buying a new power supply with the CPU and mobo, too. How many W is necessary to handle the 4000+, and do I have to consider compatibility here too? F.ex the Enermax 460W ATX 24 pins, is it ok to use it with a 4000+ and a 6600GT video card? You know which ones of these would be appropriate for a 4000+: http://www.mpx.no/aspx/produkter.aspx?l … amp;g2=372 ?
Pentium D 805 lol I don't think I've got the nerves for that overclocking!
Ok, heres what I finally ordered:
AMD Athlon 64 4000+
ASRock 939 Dual-SATA2
Tagan Easycon 530W
For 4240 norwegian kroners; about 675 $..
Thanks for your help guys! I'll write some words on how its running when I get it rigged..
AMD Athlon 64 4000+
ASRock 939 Dual-SATA2
Tagan Easycon 530W
For 4240 norwegian kroners; about 675 $..
Thanks for your help guys! I'll write some words on how its running when I get it rigged..
I was a bit late on the reply... just got my new video card from EVGA so I'm rushing to get some backups done that I had backlogged.WinstontheWolf wrote:
Ok almost ready to order Just one more thing..
I was thinking of buying a new power supply with the CPU and mobo, too. How many W is necessary to handle the 4000+, and do I have to consider compatibility here too? F.ex the Enermax 460W ATX 24 pins, is it ok to use it with a 4000+ and a 6600GT video card? You know which ones of these would be appropriate for a 4000+: http://www.mpx.no/aspx/produkter.aspx?l … amp;g2=372 ?
Pentium D 805 lol I don't think I've got the nerves for that overclocking!
Let's see... a 460W ought to be enough. You'll probably need to make sure that it also has a PCI Express power connector so that it can cope with the power-hungry cards out there. You can take a 'guesstimate' on the kind of power you need using this site here. It's always tricky trying to gauge just how much power you need for the setup that you're going to have and the setup you may end up upgrading to.