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2010-07-28 17:28:07
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5545|London, England

Ilocano wrote:

Same as John, I know a few High School friends who chose the party, spend beyond your means, and work enough to support your lifestyle route.  They are pretty much working dead end jobs.   And then there are those friends who applied themselves and are now doctors, dentists, engineers, chemists, military officers, corporate directors, VP's, etc...
It's interesting you mention this because my girlfriend has had to do a round of hiring to fill two positions in the past few weeks and you wouldn't believe the number of applicants she's received that want their job to fit around their lifestyle instead of vice versa. One woman wanted to strictly work from home because she's raising kids (which is admirable, but she was inflexible), one girl didn't want to commute to a certain office because it would make living in trendy Brooklyn a hassle. The guy she ended up hiring was fresh out of school, wanted to work hard and didn't have prior life commitments that he felt were more important than finding a job.

It's all well and good to seek happiness in life but most people today seem to view work as simply a means of paying for their social life. They want the job, and life, to come to them instead of the other way around.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-07-28 17:39:10
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6854

So, if a certain group of the population has not the motivation to improve themselves, we should take away some of the wealth from the rich elite?

Didn't stop that door man from sending his kids to college, and then their kids kids to elite colleges, etc.  Didn't stop that China man from working on the rail road or as a bus boy, saving up his money, sacrificing so the next generation can have a better life?

God, it really pisses me off when I read about people saying some people have too much money...  Like that song, "Billionaire" from Travie McCoy.  Yeah, who doesn't want "to be a billionaire, so freaking bad".  Get off your ass, stop lazying about on the beach, and do something about it.
2010-07-28 17:47:26
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6854

JohnG@lt wrote:

the number of applicants she's received that want their job to fit around their lifestyle instead of vice versa.
Quite a few of us at my work are actually like that, including myself.  But to get it requires highly in demand skills that very few others could fill.  For example, I have flexible work hours.  I come in late to work because I have to bring the kids to school.  But if there is an emergency, I can get on the conference call, join a web-ex session, and/or VPN in.  Now if only I could work from a beach off Hawaii like someone I know.
2010-07-28 18:00:58
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

Ilocano wrote:

So, if a certain group of the population has not the motivation to improve themselves, we should take away some of the wealth from the rich elite?

Didn't stop that door man from sending his kids to college, and then their kids kids to elite colleges, etc.  Didn't stop that China man from working on the rail road or as a bus boy, saving up his money, sacrificing so the next generation can have a better life?

God, it really pisses me off when I read about people saying some people have too much money...  Like that song, "Billionaire" from Travie McCoy.  Yeah, who doesn't want "to be a billionaire, so freaking bad".  Get off your ass, stop lazying about on the beach, and do something about it.
I'm sure the top 1% has trouble sleeping at night just thinking about it.
2010-07-28 18:03:46
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6854

Turquoise wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

So, if a certain group of the population has not the motivation to improve themselves, we should take away some of the wealth from the rich elite?

Didn't stop that door man from sending his kids to college, and then their kids kids to elite colleges, etc.  Didn't stop that China man from working on the rail road or as a bus boy, saving up his money, sacrificing so the next generation can have a better life?

God, it really pisses me off when I read about people saying some people have too much money...  Like that song, "Billionaire" from Travie McCoy.  Yeah, who doesn't want "to be a billionaire, so freaking bad".  Get off your ass, stop lazying about on the beach, and do something about it.
I'm sure the top 1% has trouble sleeping at night just thinking about it.
Points to title of thread.
2010-07-28 18:09:17
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5545|London, England

Ilocano wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

the number of applicants she's received that want their job to fit around their lifestyle instead of vice versa.
Quite a few of us at my work are actually like that, including myself.  But to get it requires highly in demand skills that very few others could fill.  For example, I have flexible work hours.  I come in late to work because I have to bring the kids to school.  But if there is an emergency, I can get on the conference call, join a web-ex session, and/or VPN in.  Now if only I could work from a beach off Hawaii like someone I know.
I mean my gf has the same opportunity. Hell, she works from home most Fridays, but to outright say in a job interview that you are not willing to come into the office more than once a week turns people off. Working from home is an earned privilege, not a right.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-07-28 18:13:44
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6854

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

the number of applicants she's received that want their job to fit around their lifestyle instead of vice versa.
Quite a few of us at my work are actually like that, including myself.  But to get it requires highly in demand skills that very few others could fill.  For example, I have flexible work hours.  I come in late to work because I have to bring the kids to school.  But if there is an emergency, I can get on the conference call, join a web-ex session, and/or VPN in.  Now if only I could work from a beach off Hawaii like someone I know.
I mean my gf has the same opportunity. Hell, she works from home most Fridays, but to outright say in a job interview that you are not willing to come into the office more than once a week turns people off. Working from home is an earned privilege, not a right.
True that.  Needs to be earned first.
2010-07-28 18:14:00
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

Ilocano wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

So, if a certain group of the population has not the motivation to improve themselves, we should take away some of the wealth from the rich elite?

Didn't stop that door man from sending his kids to college, and then their kids kids to elite colleges, etc.  Didn't stop that China man from working on the rail road or as a bus boy, saving up his money, sacrificing so the next generation can have a better life?

God, it really pisses me off when I read about people saying some people have too much money...  Like that song, "Billionaire" from Travie McCoy.  Yeah, who doesn't want "to be a billionaire, so freaking bad".  Get off your ass, stop lazying about on the beach, and do something about it.
I'm sure the top 1% has trouble sleeping at night just thinking about it.
Points to title of thread.
I'll be sure to cry for them.
2010-07-28 18:19:05
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5545|London, England

Ilocano wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ilocano wrote:


Quite a few of us at my work are actually like that, including myself.  But to get it requires highly in demand skills that very few others could fill.  For example, I have flexible work hours.  I come in late to work because I have to bring the kids to school.  But if there is an emergency, I can get on the conference call, join a web-ex session, and/or VPN in.  Now if only I could work from a beach off Hawaii like someone I know.
I mean my gf has the same opportunity. Hell, she works from home most Fridays, but to outright say in a job interview that you are not willing to come into the office more than once a week turns people off. Working from home is an earned privilege, not a right.
True that.  Needs to be earned first.
I guess I just fail to understand the pickiness of people when there is close to 10% reported unemployment. Reminds me of the people out in the midwest sitting around in old factory towns waiting for someone to bring work to them.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-07-28 18:42:33
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6658

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Only because people have become dependent on them. They're a problem simply because they were brought into existence in the first place without a real need. People were fine before the government started meddling.
I believe the extreme wealth disparity present in this country before the New Deal would disprove that notion.
The wealth disparity means fuck all. There's nothing stopping people from attaining a very comfortable lifestyle if it's their goal. There's nothing stopping people from planning for their own retirement. What the hell do the tycoons of 100 years ago have to do with anything? It's not like they're taking money out of other peoples pockets.
this is extremely idealistic and pretty much entirely out of touch with social realities.

are you seriously telling me a person raised in a low-wealth, impoverished area, thus with access to nothing but low-quality state education and surrounded by a social-atmosphere and condition where success is seen as 'unattainable' and thus, for instance, crime steps forward as the easiest way to provide for 'the family network'-- are you telling me a person in that situation can just 'get off their butt' and become comfortable, middle-class and college educated? how does one get into college when the only attainable primary/high school education sucked? how does one overcome the stigma of, say, being a poor-black child from the inner city? this is what i and other people in this thread would refer to as a 'bum deal': some people are born into a situation where, more often than not, a certain amount of fate and determinism is involved. idealistically, yes the schools in america do not discriminate on race, creed or background... but they're exclusive in terms of basic-education and basic-wealth. that is denied to some people in the extremely poor areas of your country. they're going nowhere -- they're stuck in black-holes, stuck in the vicious cycle of poverty and crime. it's a social ill of western civilized society that individualistic, achievement-driven environments inevitably produce the 'other side' of the 'american dream' equation: the american nightmare. people that are born into bad situations; people that are exploited for their labour or beliefs; people that are discriminated against or socially stigmatized. to ignore it is idealism. to do anything to try and help it and break-down the 'wealth gap' is apparently, devil-designed european socialism akin to agrarian soviet schemes.

lose/lose
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-28 18:51:53
Ilocano
buuuurrrrrrppppp.......
+341|6854

The Williams sisters...
2010-07-28 18:57:51
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6658
extremely poor example of an extremely rare and extreme scenario.

that relies on a very specific set of circumstances that nowhere near everybody has available to them.

inspiring tales are great and can be harnessed as a motivation but they shouldn't become apocryphal fantasies or misleading.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-28 18:58:07
Catbox
forgiveness
+505|6903
life is about choices.
Love is the answer
2010-07-28 18:59:11
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6658
yes, life is about choices but some people have more choice than others.

are all conservative middle-class americans just psychologically-vetted to comfortably neglect or idealise these social problems, or what?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-28 19:04:24
Macbeth
Banned
+2,444|5773

Ilocano wrote:

The Williams sisters...
The CEO of Goldman Sachs, Lloyd Blankfein, was born and raised in the Bronx housing projects.
2010-07-28 19:08:01
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6658
as i keep saying individual and extreme-standout examples are great for what they are-- stellar examples.

i think the social concern here is with raising the general standard of living for everybody, so that nobody should suffer and have to endure poverty or a lack of opportunity in an advanced, western economically developed country. your stories and examples would be great if everybody could make the 'choice' to pick up a tennis racquet and then if everybody could become a tennis pro, or if everybody could make the 'choice' to become a business leader and then every black child from queens ends up as a VP or CEO. but of course that's just as unrealistic as the idealism that throws out these token-examples as a 'defense'. the objective should be to make sure that everybody is receiving a better standard of education, a better life-expectancy and health-state, a better set of all-round realistic and reasonable opportunities.

that's the hallmark of a superpower and an advanced civilization: how is the standard of life for your poorest? that is not so much socialist as humanist; not so much relying upon left-wing political and economic ideologies so much as harking back to the basics of renaissance and enlightenment western thinking.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
2010-07-28 20:15:43
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

Uzique wrote:

are all conservative middle-class americans just psychologically-vetted to comfortably neglect or idealise these social problems, or what?
For all practical purposes, the answer to that question is yes.

I applaud your efforts, but I believe you may be attempting the futile here.
2010-07-28 21:35:46
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6293|eXtreme to the maX

Uzique wrote:

as i keep saying individual and extreme-standout examples are great for what they are-- stellar examples.

i think the social concern here is with raising the general standard of living for everybody, so that nobody should suffer and have to endure poverty or a lack of opportunity in an advanced, western economically developed country. your stories and examples would be great if everybody could make the 'choice' to pick up a tennis racquet and then if everybody could become a tennis pro, or if everybody could make the 'choice' to become a business leader and then every black child from queens ends up as a VP or CEO. but of course that's just as unrealistic as the idealism that throws out these token-examples as a 'defense'. the objective should be to make sure that everybody is receiving a better standard of education, a better life-expectancy and health-state, a better set of all-round realistic and reasonable opportunities.

that's the hallmark of a superpower and an advanced civilization: how is the standard of life for your poorest? that is not so much socialist as humanist; not so much relying upon left-wing political and economic ideologies so much as harking back to the basics of renaissance and enlightenment western thinking.
Few people are prepared to talk about what goes with it - population control.

Raise the standard of living -> People feel more comfortable with having extra children -> Average standard of living falls again.

Applies to certain ethnic groups more so, they're already confident having kids when their standard of living is low.

(Puts on white asbestos suit and pointy hat)
Fuck Israel
2010-07-28 21:57:02
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5545|London, England

Uzique wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


I believe the extreme wealth disparity present in this country before the New Deal would disprove that notion.
The wealth disparity means fuck all. There's nothing stopping people from attaining a very comfortable lifestyle if it's their goal. There's nothing stopping people from planning for their own retirement. What the hell do the tycoons of 100 years ago have to do with anything? It's not like they're taking money out of other peoples pockets.
this is extremely idealistic and pretty much entirely out of touch with social realities.

are you seriously telling me a person raised in a low-wealth, impoverished area, thus with access to nothing but low-quality state education and surrounded by a social-atmosphere and condition where success is seen as 'unattainable' and thus, for instance, crime steps forward as the easiest way to provide for 'the family network'-- are you telling me a person in that situation can just 'get off their butt' and become comfortable, middle-class and college educated? how does one get into college when the only attainable primary/high school education sucked? how does one overcome the stigma of, say, being a poor-black child from the inner city? this is what i and other people in this thread would refer to as a 'bum deal': some people are born into a situation where, more often than not, a certain amount of fate and determinism is involved. idealistically, yes the schools in america do not discriminate on race, creed or background... but they're exclusive in terms of basic-education and basic-wealth. that is denied to some people in the extremely poor areas of your country. they're going nowhere -- they're stuck in black-holes, stuck in the vicious cycle of poverty and crime. it's a social ill of western civilized society that individualistic, achievement-driven environments inevitably produce the 'other side' of the 'american dream' equation: the american nightmare. people that are born into bad situations; people that are exploited for their labour or beliefs; people that are discriminated against or socially stigmatized. to ignore it is idealism. to do anything to try and help it and break-down the 'wealth gap' is apparently, devil-designed european socialism akin to agrarian soviet schemes.

lose/lose
Umm, do what millions of other people have done? Join the military? Get out of the ghetto and get money for college and self respect all at the same time. It works wonders.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-07-28 21:58:19
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5545|London, England

Uzique wrote:

yes, life is about choices but some people have more choice than others.

are all conservative middle-class americans just psychologically-vetted to comfortably neglect or idealise these social problems, or what?
You are aware that I grew up poor to a single mother and went to public school for most of my life? There was a crack house three doors down from my home for the first ten years of my life. I adjusted.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-07-28 22:00:24
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5545|London, England

Uzique wrote:

as i keep saying individual and extreme-standout examples are great for what they are-- stellar examples.

i think the social concern here is with raising the general standard of living for everybody, so that nobody should suffer and have to endure poverty or a lack of opportunity in an advanced, western economically developed country. your stories and examples would be great if everybody could make the 'choice' to pick up a tennis racquet and then if everybody could become a tennis pro, or if everybody could make the 'choice' to become a business leader and then every black child from queens ends up as a VP or CEO. but of course that's just as unrealistic as the idealism that throws out these token-examples as a 'defense'. the objective should be to make sure that everybody is receiving a better standard of education, a better life-expectancy and health-state, a better set of all-round realistic and reasonable opportunities.

that's the hallmark of a superpower and an advanced civilization: how is the standard of life for your poorest? that is not so much socialist as humanist; not so much relying upon left-wing political and economic ideologies so much as harking back to the basics of renaissance and enlightenment western thinking.
Our 'poor' go to bed every night with a full belly, have big screen tv's and cable television. Our 'poor' would be considered wealthy in any third world nation. Get off your high horse you silver spoon-fed turd.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-07-28 23:49:23
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|6903

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

as i keep saying individual and extreme-standout examples are great for what they are-- stellar examples.

i think the social concern here is with raising the general standard of living for everybody, so that nobody should suffer and have to endure poverty or a lack of opportunity in an advanced, western economically developed country. your stories and examples would be great if everybody could make the 'choice' to pick up a tennis racquet and then if everybody could become a tennis pro, or if everybody could make the 'choice' to become a business leader and then every black child from queens ends up as a VP or CEO. but of course that's just as unrealistic as the idealism that throws out these token-examples as a 'defense'. the objective should be to make sure that everybody is receiving a better standard of education, a better life-expectancy and health-state, a better set of all-round realistic and reasonable opportunities.

that's the hallmark of a superpower and an advanced civilization: how is the standard of life for your poorest? that is not so much socialist as humanist; not so much relying upon left-wing political and economic ideologies so much as harking back to the basics of renaissance and enlightenment western thinking.
Our 'poor' go to bed every night with a full belly, have big screen tv's and cable television. Our 'poor' would be considered wealthy in any third world nation. Get off your high horse you silver spoon-fed turd.
lol poverty in America is like fucking high wages here in Taiwan. Shit, give someone from China 600 bucks a month, they'll live like kings.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2010-07-29 00:10:26
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|6997|Nårvei

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:


I dunno but, doubt it. Considering the troops, the equipment, the logistics, the bases..I gotta think more is spent in Europe.
And that amounts to how much in Norway? ... please remind me cause I must have forgotten that we have US bases in Norway ...
http://www.gettingaround.net/pages/usafe-norway.php     So you think bases in germany, England, Spain, Greece Italy etc  offer no protectino to Europe as a whole, yeah including Norway.
Of course they do, just like Russian bases offered "protection" to Romania, Hungary etc etc ... you are quite the hypocrite lowing ...

You specifically stated earlier that US funds found its way into Norway, and that hasn't happened since the end of WW2.

Maybe you guys should start spending your money at home, that's where your biggest issues of concernes are located ... and stop pretending you are destabilizing a global axis of evil because you caused that situation yourselves ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
2010-07-29 00:12:04
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6962|Moscow, Russia

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:


Oh yes, it's so much better having a planned economy.
"better" is subjective, but it is a lot more efficient, as it's been demonstrated by the ussr.
How'd that work out for them?
spectacular. they went from plow to nuclear weapons in about fifty years.

JohnG@lt wrote:

How many millions of citizens died laboring on public works projects?
a lot less than your propaganda told you.

JohnG@lt wrote:

How was the quality of the goods produced by people trained as farmers and forcibly working in factories (and vice versa) work out?
a lot better than today when we "embraced the new and right ways".

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ask your parents about the bread lines some day.
i'd see what it would have been like in usa if you for once actually fought a real war on your own territory. if anything, katrina alone was enough for your jedi to start tearing each other's throats.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2010-07-29 06:37:06
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6592|North Carolina

Cybargs wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Uzique wrote:

as i keep saying individual and extreme-standout examples are great for what they are-- stellar examples.

i think the social concern here is with raising the general standard of living for everybody, so that nobody should suffer and have to endure poverty or a lack of opportunity in an advanced, western economically developed country. your stories and examples would be great if everybody could make the 'choice' to pick up a tennis racquet and then if everybody could become a tennis pro, or if everybody could make the 'choice' to become a business leader and then every black child from queens ends up as a VP or CEO. but of course that's just as unrealistic as the idealism that throws out these token-examples as a 'defense'. the objective should be to make sure that everybody is receiving a better standard of education, a better life-expectancy and health-state, a better set of all-round realistic and reasonable opportunities.

that's the hallmark of a superpower and an advanced civilization: how is the standard of life for your poorest? that is not so much socialist as humanist; not so much relying upon left-wing political and economic ideologies so much as harking back to the basics of renaissance and enlightenment western thinking.
Our 'poor' go to bed every night with a full belly, have big screen tv's and cable television. Our 'poor' would be considered wealthy in any third world nation. Get off your high horse you silver spoon-fed turd.
lol poverty in America is like fucking high wages here in Taiwan. Shit, give someone from China 600 bucks a month, they'll live like kings.
By the same token, our taxes on the wealthy are pretty low compared to most of the developed world, yet they still complain like they're being robbed.

Perspective is everything.

 

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