Last edited by ArMaG3dD0n (2006-05-03 13:39:16)
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-05-03 13:48:58)
Respond to my post on the last page about your so called prophecies. I showed that they were vague, and even wrong in some respects, but religious groups are willing to settle for close enough.JaMDuDe wrote:
On wiki thats not even a theory on how the first cell was created. Skruples thats a 100% faith based thing to show that u cant make stuff up and say we know it was designed. Christianity ISNT PURELY FAITH BASED. Theres evidence for it and prophets and historical facts for it.
OH really not only based faith?JaMDuDe wrote:
On wiki thats not even a theory on how the first cell was created. Skruples thats a 100% faith based thing to show that u cant make stuff up and say we know it was designed. Christianity ISNT PURELY FAITH BASED. Theres evidence for it and prophets and historical facts for it.
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-05-03 14:20:02)
As people have been pointing out to you for the past 20 pages straight, there is plenty of evidence for evolution, you just choose to believe answeringenesis when they say that none of it means anything. How about studying some of this for yourself for once? Why not take a drive down to your local university and ask a real professor? Read a few books? Every time someone confronts you with evidence you just run off to AIG and repeat what they say to us... and then you come back here and tell us WE'RE the ones taking all our evidence on faith.JaMDuDe wrote:
Skruples thats a 100% faith based thing to show that u cant make stuff up and say we know it was designed. Christianity ISNT PURELY FAITH BASED. Theres evidence for it and prophets and historical facts for it. Evolutionists are people like topal who KNOW there are scientific facts that evolution is based on but they cant seem to find them, but they KNOW scientists all around the world agree on these amazing fossil records and scientific theories.
Oh snap!!1 I think Moose would be a little more insulted if you managed to spell 'genisis' correctly; as it stands you come off as a petulant child. And who are you trying to convince about the faith issue? Us? Or yourself? The rest of us have no problem with faith, you can believe the sky is green and God created us all 6000 years ago if that makes you happy, but when you tell us that over a century of science is wrong to such a staggering degree and then link ilovegod.com as proof... some of us might argue. In short, your arguments are weak, your reasoning is almost nonexistent, and your sources would be laughed out of any academic setting. Get with the program.JaMDuDe wrote:
He created us moose. Go read genisis it has more details. If that is your basis on how christianity is false then go ahead and believe that. Because God didnt share with us each and EVERY SINGLE step of creating man doesnt mean the entire religion is faith based. Tell me when you graduate 4th grade. Agent look at this link http://christiananswers.net/dictionary/ … ecies.html Please show me how those are vague and untrue. You did not prove anything. You took 3 out of 60 sumthing i believe, and put them in your own words.
...and plenty of educated people don't believe in the existence of God. Plenty of uneducated people believe in the existence of God. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing.JaMDuDe wrote:
So is this plenty of proof of evolution all the stuff that has been proven wrong and is still in textbooks? Can you please show me solid proof of evolution? Not all scientists agree with evolution. Plenty of very educated scientists dont agree with it.
Thank you. That's what I've been saying all along. Now will you ask AIG and christiananswers to stop using God to explain the holes in their reasoning? Or, perhaps *gasp* stop using them as the source for all your wordly information?JaMDuDe wrote:
You arent going to believe any "proof" since u cant physically see or test God in a lab.
has been covered extensively. I don't have the time or the patience to go into this any further, but suffice it to say that the prophecies are not blowing my mind as far as 'proof of God' is concerned, any more than Nostradamus' prophecies have convinced me ww3 is coming.JaMDuDe wrote:
Prophecy
What about it? If we just skip over all the logical problems with dinosaurs being alive 6000 years ago and not slaughtering humans (including Noah when he tries to put a couple of them in a 50x30 centimeter cage) willy nilly, our understanding of how soft tissues are preserved is not very complete. For all we know soft tissues can survive for trillions of years in the right conditions, it was just believed that they could only survive about 100000 years (until this was found). Science changes with time, the same cannot be said for religion.JaMDuDe wrote:
Dinosaur blood,
The first cause. I am assuming you're talking about the creation of the universe, and as I've said it is A. impossible to determine exactly what happened ~15 billion years ago with our current level of technology, and B. There are theories in place, but I'm guessing you've only read AIG's interpretation and thus have no understanding of the physics behind those theories. The link below touches on this subject briefly.JaMDuDe wrote:
the need for a first cause, the impossibility of life spontaneously appearing,
Can be explained with simple physics. Ice is relatively complex. It forms a perfect geometric pattern at the molecular level every time. Did God make it that way? Or is it the result of slight positive and negative charges at each end of the water molecule?JaMDuDe wrote:
the complexity of molecular structures,
The 'finely tuned physical laws' have also been covered, but you appear to revert to your original talking points about once every 10 pages or so. Very well. There is nothing special about the physical laws. If the physical laws were different in any number of ways, we would either not exist, or you would be telling us how perfect and divine those other physical laws are. Here. Read this: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/cosmo.htmlJaMDuDe wrote:
finely tuned physical laws and the rarity of earth in this galaxy is a little bit of proof. And a lot of the proof a evolution has been provin wrong.
Ok, so if they dont agree together that mean its not a good proof for you? ok that works.JaMDuDe wrote:
So is this plenty of proof of evolution all the stuff that has been proven wrong and is still in textbooks? Can you please show me solid proof of evolution? Not all scientists agree with evolution. Plenty of very educated scientists dont agree with it.
Last edited by MooseRyder (2006-05-03 16:23:22)
Neither of them use much detail, which is the whole point. If you write vague and open ended prophecies, its only a matter of time until something happens that people will associate with it.JaMDuDe wrote:
Nostradamus didnt use as much detail as the bible does.
I'm going to assume that first sentence is a typo, since blood cells living trillions of years is not reasonable at all; The universe hasn't been around that long. As for the theories, that was my entire point. The theories said blood cells cant be preserved longer than about 100000 years. That theory is obviously incorrect, and so it will be changed.JaMDuDe wrote:
Its only reasonable that blood cells can live trillions of years. Ive seen theories and ive also seen thats its impossible.
If I pop the side of my computer case off and look inside, I will see an amazing degree of detail and precision. If I had no knowledge of prior events, I would assume that some engineers and technicians somewhere created this fantastic piece of technology from scratch, and that would be amazing. However, I know this is not the case, the computer technology today, which is very complex and relies on many seperate pieces working together is the result of decades of research, and is descended from the first computer which involved alot of vacuum tubes and space and was nowhere near as complex. In the same way you look at cells and animals today and say 'all these parts working together is amazing! This could never happen by chance!', while I look at the same cells and speculate that there were probably trillions upon trillions of slightly less advanced cells that preceded it, all the way back to the very first cell or self replicating gizmo of some kind which couldn't have been very complex at all.JaMDuDe wrote:
Can you explain the molecular machines that need every single part to work and slowly evolving would give it no advantage?
Fixed.JaMDuDe wrote:
That link doesnt work for talkorigins.
Ah, once again, using God to fill in the gaps in your science. Thank you for making my point.JaMDuDe wrote:
The same guy made all the species, why wouldnt they be alike at all?
What, do you mean, are they physically here? In my house? Would you like me to fedex you some? Google is your friendJaMDuDe wrote:
Can you show me the fossils they have?
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-05-03 17:11:56)
Last edited by Spearhead (2006-05-03 17:45:28)
And you know Jesus was born of a virgin? You were there when he was conceived? You followed his mother around her entire life and made sure she never had sex? Oh right, it says she's a virgin in the bible, so you believe it. The point being you look in the bible to find prophecies, and then you look in the Bible again to find the evidence that those prophecies were fulfilled. You're not blowing my mind here.JaMDuDe wrote:
The bible prophecies are very detailed. If you do not think from the house of david from a virgin in bethlehem isnt detailed i dont know what is. Look at what i showed agent, they are very detailed.
The cells aren't 'alive', they're preserved. If you don't understand the distinction you shouldn't be having this discussion, and as Spark (I believe) pointed out, there are bacterial cells millions of years old that have been reactivated. Its not such a leap of faith for me to assume that somewhere, somehow, dinosaur blood survived inside a fossilized bone.JaMDuDe wrote:
This is what happens when bias scientists find something. They already know cells cant live that long, but instead of saying that it might have lived a thousands of years ago, they say we must have been wrong before.
How do you know they evolved at the same time? Is it possible that these segments evolved at seperate times and later took up complementary jobs? Going back to my computer analogy, a regular desktop computer will not run without a graphics card. It won't run without a motherboard. It won't run without a cpu. But if we go back through the 'evolution' (so to speak) of the computer, you would see that all of those things were added in one at a time, and were changed to complement each other.JaMDuDe wrote:
How do molecules that NEED every single part to work evolve? If slow random mutations made the parts one at a time they would be no advantage to the cell.
And you credit the laws of physics to an omnipotent omnipresent super-entity. Wheres your evidence? What are the odds that you and I would be having this conversation, out of everyone on the planet? Lets see... 1 in 6 and a half billion x 1/6500000000 = ~2.36686x10^-20. Lets add in Spark. ~2.36686x10^-20 x 1/6500000000 = ~3.64132x10^-30. Holy crap! The odds are worse than the number of people that have ever existed! God must have this all planned out, because it couldn't possibly be random chance!JaMDuDe wrote:
They just credit our laws of physics to chance. The odds of the laws of physics in our universe, and the odds of the earth appearing in OUR galaxy are beyond chance.
Lets put 'fossil' into google and see what comes up. Hey look, the 4th link down is talkorigins page on human fossils. Was that so hard?JaMDuDe wrote:
No i meant the fossils scientists have. I do believe i have found the missing link between fish and land animals. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Peri … destus.jpg
Let's start from the bottom.JaMDuDe wrote:
Ok, it just seems a little odd that it took them 90,000 years to domesticate animals and plant crops.
Spark, at least its within a few million years.
So your basis on believing evolution is bacteria can evolve and the flood couldnt happen??? If you prove the flood wrong all it does is say that the bible isnt litteral.
I wont "think" of an answer to this one, ill give you a link because they explain it better. http://www.icr.org/index.php?module=art … mp;page=14
"The accumulation of mutations doesn't lead to a new kind of bacterium—it leads to extinction"
Could you show me evidence of this? How do cows and sheep adapting to their environment even prove evolution?
Im pretty sure there are plate tectonics. Sea floor spreading sped up during the flood. Heres how to explain subduction http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subduction
So God should have taken mans free will away from moving onto wildlife? Why didnt evolution prepare the animals for human contact?
No its not a coincidence, the earth was made for us. The laws of physics are "finely tuned" and didnt evolve.Yeah He did. Do you mind explaining how these bacteria evolved to break down chemicals which are no use to them?spark wrote:
How do you explain bacteria that break down chemical materials - none of which are of the slightest use to them? Did God just make it so they can eat it - for no reason whatsoever?
How do you know where eden is? The flood washed it all away. Can you show me where they found the remains? I thought that the first humans were supposed to have come from africa. When i enter rift valley in wiki it says nothing of the earliest human remains.
If they dont need cities why start 10,000 years ago? Did they intentionally wait until when a lot of people thought the earth was created to start living together? 90,000 years is a long time to wait.
Mountains are still rising, that means that they werent as tall thousands of years ago. Heres a link for the the water problem http://www.answersingenesis.org/Home/Ar … lood12.asp Do you know how much water is in the deepest parts of the pacific? If the sea floor rose and all that water was spilled onto land that would be plenty of water. Then after the flood the water "receded" back into the great deep.
Because stones are easy to mold and strong. Would you like adam to get his meat with a sniper rifle?
The uranium-lead dating method has produced so many anomalous readings that it has fallen into disrepute, even among Evolutionists.
Why couldnt the big bang happened thousands of years ago? Our galaxy is winding up so fast that if it were millions of years old it would be a featureless disc. But, its supposed to be billions of years and its still a spiral.
Cause the world started at one point and seemed to explode like the bible says. There was nothing then "let there be light"
Why would God warn everybody about every problem they might encounter at one point? Its not His fault we sinned. The bible does talk about "stars falling from the sky" .
How do you know dodo wasnt on the ark and it migrated after and got stuck?
Look at the link above.
There is evidence of a global flood. If you look at an evolutionist the extinction of most humans means http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toba_catastrophe_theory Creationists think it was a flood. Things like the grand canyon are evidence of huge amounts of water to creationists, and to evolutionists its the result of millions of years.
Last edited by Spark (2006-05-04 00:08:59)
No, its not possible. This answer has been covered. Evolution doesnt add all the parts at one time. If we go back through "evolution" we would see that all the parts were made and its impossible for a computer to assemble itself.skruples wrote:
How do you know they evolved at the same time? Is it possible that these segments evolved at seperate times and later took up complementary jobs? Going back to my computer analogy, a regular desktop computer will not run without a graphics card. It won't run without a motherboard. It won't run without a cpu. But if we go back through the 'evolution' (so to speak) of the computer, you would see that all of those things were added in one at a time, and were changed to complement each other.
Last edited by JaMDuDe (2006-05-04 09:26:59)
ROFLMAO!!!herrr_smity wrote:
http://www.dailysixer.com/godbanana.shtml
No mutations that give advantages.....wow.....really...JaMDuDe wrote:
Could you also explain why we havent found ANY mutations that give an advantage? If this is how everything on earth formed how come we cant find one?
Last edited by ArMaG3dD0n (2006-05-04 12:50:10)
