No, I've explained several times. I keep explaining the same damn thing over and over...you keep changing it to suit your argument.
Like I said, I expect nothing more from you, and you should not feel the need to post until you explain why MLK character is irrelevant while another public figure's character deserves to be drug through the mud if any dirt is found on them.Dilbert_X wrote:
lowing wrote:
You are not acknowledging Dilberts opinion is a double standard and in fact have gone to bat in order to deflect that fact, by arguing points that have not been made regarding the civil rights movement and tiger woods.
No you keep mentioning the civil rights movement and his "accomplishments". This is not the issue. Although his accomplishments started through false credentials. IE a PHD he did notearn.Pug wrote:
No, I've explained several times. I keep explaining the same damn thing over and over...you keep changing it to suit your argument.
And I've explained that it doesn't give him a free pass...
but it has no impact.
Go on, I'm getting tired.
but it has no impact.
Go on, I'm getting tired.
If he does not deserve a free pass then do not give him one. Let me hear you say he should have his PHD revoked and his historical image should reflect his lying, cheating, stealing, fraud and theft.Pug wrote:
And I've explained that it doesn't give him a free pass...
but it has no impact.
Go on, I'm getting tired.
Oh googly moogly reread my posts. Who said he's getting a free pass?
Hmmm....looks like the job Sherodd got at the USDA was a payoff:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini … 46149.html
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini … 46149.html
Let me ask you like this. Starting over so cut the bullshit dancing and directly answer the questions.Pug wrote:
Oh googly moogly reread my posts. Who said he's getting a free pass?
Answer yes or no to each then explain. Remember this has nothing to do with a movement that involved 100s of thousands of people not just MLK.
Should MLK have his PHD revoked? Should MLK's legacy reflect that he was a liar, a cheater, a thief a plagiarizer and a fraud? Given the absolute fact that he was all of these things? Now see if you can answer that question with out mentioning the civil rights. MLK was involved in the civil rights movement. HE was not the civil rights movement. Plenty of other more honorable people involved in that movement, ya know people that were not liars and cheaters.
If he murdered someone, regardless of his involvement in the civil rights movement, he would still be a murderer.
I love it!!Harmor wrote:
Hmmm....looks like the job Sherodd got at the USDA was a payoff:
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opini … 46149.html
I give up.lowing wrote:
Let me ask you like this. Starting over so cut the bullshit dancing and directly answer the questions.Pug wrote:
Oh googly moogly reread my posts. Who said he's getting a free pass?
Answer yes or no to each then explain. Remember this has nothing to do with a movement that involved 100s of thousands of people not just MLK.
Should MLK have his PHD revoked? Should MLK's legacy reflect that he was a liar, a cheater, a thief a plagiarizer and a fraud? Given the absolute fact that he was all of these things? Now see if you can answer that question with out mentioning the civil rights. MLK was involved in the civil rights movement. HE was not the civil rights movement. Plenty of other more honorable people involved in that movement, ya know people that were not liars and cheaters.
If he murdered someone, regardless of his involvement in the civil rights movement, he would still be a murderer.
I've answer this question at least five times in this thread and five times in another thread.
You are unable to understand simple facts. For instance, in the last five or six posts I've told you he's guilty but you are unable to actually understand the second part.
You have never answered shit..Should his PHD be revoked in light of his cheating... yes or no?Pug wrote:
I give up.lowing wrote:
Let me ask you like this. Starting over so cut the bullshit dancing and directly answer the questions.Pug wrote:
Oh googly moogly reread my posts. Who said he's getting a free pass?
Answer yes or no to each then explain. Remember this has nothing to do with a movement that involved 100s of thousands of people not just MLK.
Should MLK have his PHD revoked? Should MLK's legacy reflect that he was a liar, a cheater, a thief a plagiarizer and a fraud? Given the absolute fact that he was all of these things? Now see if you can answer that question with out mentioning the civil rights. MLK was involved in the civil rights movement. HE was not the civil rights movement. Plenty of other more honorable people involved in that movement, ya know people that were not liars and cheaters.
If he murdered someone, regardless of his involvement in the civil rights movement, he would still be a murderer.
I've answer this question at least five times in this thread and five times in another thread.
You are unable to understand simple facts. For instance, in the last five or six posts I've told you he's guilty but you are unable to actually understand the second part.
should his legacy INCLUDE his theft, adultery, fraud and plagiarism? yes or no?
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-23 11:33:31)
Well, the issuing university declined to do that, so who are we to argue?lowing wrote:
You have never answered shit..Should his PHD be revoked in light of his cheating... yes or no?
It does. The real point is what should be emphasized. Should that portion of his life be emphasized over the greater contributions to American society? No, I don't think so.lowing wrote:
should his legacy INCLUDE his theft plagiarism, adultery, fraud and plagiarism? yes or no?
I know what what the university declined to do and the reasoning behind it. Do you agree with it? Does MLK deserve to have his PHD revoked like the cheater he was and like anyone else would have had done?SenorToenails wrote:
Well, the issuing university declined to do that, so who are we to argue?lowing wrote:
You have never answered shit..Should his PHD be revoked in light of his cheating... yes or no?It does. The real point is what should be emphasized. Should that portion of his life be emphasized over the greater contributions to American society? No, I don't think so.lowing wrote:
should his legacy INCLUDE his theft plagiarism, adultery, fraud and plagiarism? yes or no?
If you insist that MLK and the civil rights movement are one, why then not condemn MLK for the shame he has brought upon the movement?
I mean all it takes apparently is one or 2 bad apples to condemn an entire tea party movement as racist, why not let the unscrupulous behavior of MLK, the leader of the civil rights movement, bring shame upon the civil rights movement as a whole along with his legacy?
If you insist MLK is judged separately from the civil rights movement, which I do, then judge him accordingly and punish him ( his legacy) accordingly. Like you would do anyone one else. Yes or no?
Ok, revoke his PhD (like I've said already).
What exactly does that accomplish?
Nothing.
(like I've said already)
What exactly does that accomplish?
Nothing.
(like I've said already)
And who said it doesn't? They aren't lies perpetuated by the white man to slander MLK.lowing wrote:
You have never answered shit..Should his PHD be revoked in light of his cheating... yes or no?
should his legacy INCLUDE his theft, adultery, fraud and plagiarism? yes or no?
And what does that accomplish, since they are already out there?
Nothing.
You argue with facts but ignore the reality.
Yes it does do something, it sets the record straight. Not unlike a criminal being absolved of any wrong doing after he was executed, or a medal being awarded posthumously.Pug wrote:
Ok, revoke his PhD (like I've said already).
What exactly does that accomplish?
Nothing.
(like I've said already)
It does not change our daily lives, but the truth and history then become a matter of public record and credit is given where it is due and removed when it is found to be based on bullshit. Like MLK's personal life.
Who the hell said MLK's personal life is private and this isn't part of the public record?
Wake up lowing.
Wake up lowing.
As an academic myself, I'm inclined to take their word for it. They reviewed it in light of the plaigarism, and decided that the original portions of the thesis were intellectually sufficient to warrant a PhD. I didn't read it, so I can't comment. The man was dead when they found out, so what did it matter? Seriously, if he were alive it's possible that things would have gone differently...but he didn't make his name in the world for the awesome papers he published in academia.lowing wrote:
I know what what the university declined to do and the reasoning behind it. Do you agree with it? Does MLK deserve to have his PHD revoked like the cheater he was and like anyone else would have had done?
Please find where I said 'MLK and the civil rights movement are one'. I didn't say it nor did I ever imply it, so don't put words in my mouth.lowing wrote:
If you insist that MLK and the civil rights movement are one, why then not condemn MLK for the shame he has brought upon the movement?
Straw man. And a pretty crappy one at that.lowing wrote:
I mean all it takes apparently is one or 2 bad apples to condemn an entire tea party movement as racist, why not let the unscrupulous behavior of MLK, the leader of the civil rights movement, bring shame upon the civil rights movement as a whole along with his legacy?
Sure, judge them accordingly. MLK's legacy isn't exactly untouched by his academic dishonesty, but maybe some people think that since the man is dead, there isn't much point to dragging him through the mud. Personally, I always saw him as 'just a guy' who managed to do something pretty awesome in his day. Finding out that he plaigarised parts of his thesis doesn't change what he did...it just means he wasn't that great as an academic.lowing wrote:
If you insist MLK is judged separately from the civil rights movement, which I do, then judge him accordingly and punish him ( his legacy) accordingly. Like you would do anyone one else. Yes or no?
open your eyes america
Tu Stultus Es
How much is this "job" she got from the USDA?
This was of course after she won a suit against the USDA and got, what $1.5 million in a settlement?
This was of course after she won a suit against the USDA and got, what $1.5 million in a settlement?
1. As I said, it matters for the same reason it matters to absolve a criminal that has been executed for a crime he did not commit.SenorToenails wrote:
As an academic myself, I'm inclined to take their word for it. They reviewed it in light of the plaigarism, and decided that the original portions of the thesis were intellectually sufficient to warrant a PhD. I didn't read it, so I can't comment. The man was dead when they found out, so what did it matter? Seriously, if he were alive it's possible that things would have gone differently...but he didn't make his name in the world for the awesome papers he published in academia.lowing wrote:
I know what what the university declined to do and the reasoning behind it. Do you agree with it? Does MLK deserve to have his PHD revoked like the cheater he was and like anyone else would have had done?Please find where I said 'MLK and the civil rights movement are one'. I didn't say it nor did I ever imply it, so don't put words in my mouth.lowing wrote:
If you insist that MLK and the civil rights movement are one, why then not condemn MLK for the shame he has brought upon the movement?Straw man. And a pretty crappy one at that.lowing wrote:
I mean all it takes apparently is one or 2 bad apples to condemn an entire tea party movement as racist, why not let the unscrupulous behavior of MLK, the leader of the civil rights movement, bring shame upon the civil rights movement as a whole along with his legacy?Sure, judge them accordingly. MLK's legacy isn't exactly untouched by his academic dishonesty, but maybe some people think that since the man is dead, there isn't much point to dragging him through the mud. Personally, I always saw him as 'just a guy' who managed to do something pretty awesome in his day. Finding out that he plaigarised parts of his thesis doesn't change what he did...it just means he wasn't that great as an academic.lowing wrote:
If you insist MLK is judged separately from the civil rights movement, which I do, then judge him accordingly and punish him ( his legacy) accordingly. Like you would do anyone one else. Yes or no?
2. funny, then why does the civil rights movement come up every time his fuckin name is mentioned or his behavior?
3. I don't think so, because if it were, you would have something more to say about it than a dismissal. A classic tactic in this forum. I think it parallels nicely.
4. Uhhhh it isn't just his academic dishonesty we are talking about. You are forgetting his integrity and his morality and his. Kinda sorta some principals he has built a reputation around. It is his character that has been exposed. I don't give a fuck about his college papers either, but it does reflect on the mans character, and integrity. Bigger men have been brought down for lesser "character flaws".
Also please keep in mind this started when Dilbert stated it was not important and MLK should have his privacy while in another thread has no problem ripping into someones privacy when there was not even any dirt to dig.
1. There is a remarkable difference in 'crimes' here.lowing wrote:
1. As I said, it matters for the same reason it matters to absolve a criminal that has been executed for a crime he did not commit.
2. funny, then why does the civil rights movement come up every time his fuckin name is mentioned or his behavior?
3. I don't think so, because if it were, you would have something more to say about it than a dismissal. A classic tactic in this forum. I think it parallels nicely.
4. Uhhhh it isn't just his academic dishonesty we are talking about. You are forgetting his integrity and his morality and his. Kinda sorta some principals he has built a reputation around. It is his character that has been exposed. I don't give a fuck about his college papers either, but it does reflect on the mans character, and integrity. Bigger men have been brought down for lesser "character flaws".
Also please keep in mind this started when Dilbert stated it was not important and MLK should have his privacy while in another thread has no problem ripping into someones privacy when there was not even any dirt to dig.
2. Well, I don't know lowing. I asked you to find where I said it. I never did, nor did I imply it. You see the same enemy in everyone on this forum, don't you?
3. You took two very different problems (MLK and Tea Party), 'defeated' the trivial one (Tea Party), then applied that to the other (MLK). That is a classic strawman.
4. It is academic dishonesty. That's it. Anyone here that has spent time in academia knows how poorly that is looked upon, but since he isn't around to say anything about it--and the people who know best think he deserved a PhD anyway--it doesn't really matter what you think.
And just because bigger men have been brought down for lesser flaws doesn't mean anything. Maybe they were treated just as unfairly and as unreasonably as you are treating MLK. It doesn't really matter since you've dismissed just about every opinion in this forum that does not align with yours.
1. I was addressing the issue of "what difference does it make"? the man is deadSenorToenails wrote:
1. There is a remarkable difference in 'crimes' here.lowing wrote:
1. As I said, it matters for the same reason it matters to absolve a criminal that has been executed for a crime he did not commit.
2. funny, then why does the civil rights movement come up every time his fuckin name is mentioned or his behavior?
3. I don't think so, because if it were, you would have something more to say about it than a dismissal. A classic tactic in this forum. I think it parallels nicely.
4. Uhhhh it isn't just his academic dishonesty we are talking about. You are forgetting his integrity and his morality and his. Kinda sorta some principals he has built a reputation around. It is his character that has been exposed. I don't give a fuck about his college papers either, but it does reflect on the mans character, and integrity. Bigger men have been brought down for lesser "character flaws".
Also please keep in mind this started when Dilbert stated it was not important and MLK should have his privacy while in another thread has no problem ripping into someones privacy when there was not even any dirt to dig.
2. Well, I don't know lowing. I asked you to find where I said it. I never did, nor did I imply it. You see the same enemy in everyone on this forum, don't you?
3. You took two very different problems (MLK and Tea Party), 'defeated' the trivial one (Tea Party), then applied that to the other (MLK). That is a classic strawman.
4. It is academic dishonesty. That's it. Anyone here that has spent time in academia knows how poorly that is looked upon, but since he isn't around to say anything about it--and the people who know best think he deserved a PhD anyway--it doesn't really matter what you think.
And just because bigger men have been brought down for lesser flaws doesn't mean anything. Maybe they were treated just as unfairly and as unreasonably as you are treating MLK. It doesn't really matter since you've dismissed just about every opinion in this forum that does not align with yours.
2. I am speaking generally here. If yo go back and read the arguments it was implied if not said.
3. The parellel is using one person to judge an entire movement.
4. No that is not it, it goes to the heart of his character. An image that defines the man as a whole. If that image is not the truth then the man credibilty is now questioned. Just like you would do anyone else.
I'm sorry, how is it I am treating MLK unfairly and unreasonably? If there is something I have pointed out he is guilty of that is unfair untrue or unreasonable, by all means point it out.
Actually, I do not dismiss every opinion. If I do not agree with it I address it. I do not dismiss it or deny it.
1. It really does make no difference, because the man is dead and the institution stands behind the award. Lose respect for him/institution/whatever if you want, that's a personal decision you can make.lowing wrote:
1. I was addressing the issue of "what difference does it make"? the man is dead
2. I am speaking generally here. If yo go back and read the arguments it was implied if not said.
3. The parellel is using one person to judge an entire movement.
4. No that is not it, it goes to the heart of his character. An image that defines the man as a whole. If that image is not the truth then the man credibilty is now questioned. Just like you would do anyone else.
I'm sorry, how is it I am treating MLK unfairly and unreasonably? If there is something I have pointed out he is guilty of that is unfair untrue or unreasonable, by all means point it out.
Actually, I do not dismiss every opinion. If I do not agree with it I address it. I do not dismiss it or deny it.
2. Not by me. How about you live up to the burden of proof here? Either that, or admit you're wrong.
3. Which single person is the tea party movement being judged on? Palin? Interesting, since I thought it was the cherry picked and poor media portrayal that was making it seem racist. Whatever, I'm not involved in that argument.
4. And I repeat, so he was a poor academic. Whoop-dee-friggen-doo. What he worked on in his life was not fraudulent, so why focus on the negative when the man has obviously done some very good things? I think it's fair to look at the whole picture of the man, but to recognize which things had the most impact in their life and on the world. Did his academic dishonesty change what he did? No. Does it make the man more ... human? Yea. Just like how people think Jefferson fathered a bunch of children with slaves (which he owned) and was also chronically in deep debt, that doesn't mean he wasn't a great man that helped shape and lead this country. Or how John Hancock was a smuggler, and his business interests might remove some of the nobility of his signing of the declaration of independence....but he was still a patriot that put his life on the line. Which of these things overshadows the other? It should be obvious. If you want to look at only the bad things that people in history have done, go right ahead and do so, but it'll be unfair to them and history. But don't be frustrated when people disagree with your take on these people--they could be looking at the overall meaning of that person's life.
funny it is only with MLK do you all acknowledge human frailties, and forgive accordingly. I do not recall any of you rendering such understanding for any other public figure. What makes this guy any different? Never mind he went to his grave knowing what he did and did not seek forgiveness for it. Never mind his actions went directly against what he said he stood for and indeed spoke about. You deem it insignificant and un-noteworthy.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character", MLK. Irony, gotta love it.
"I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character", MLK. Irony, gotta love it.