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2010-07-18 02:43:21
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6833|San Diego, CA, USA
Changing Stance, Administration Now Defends Insurance Mandate as a Tax

New York Times wrote:

When Congress required most Americans to obtain health insurance or pay a penalty, Democrats denied that they were creating a new tax. But in court, the Obama administration and its allies now defend the requirement as an exercise of the government’s “power to lay and collect taxes.”

And that power, they say, is even more sweeping than the federal power to regulate interstate commerce.

Administration officials say the tax argument is a linchpin of their legal case in defense of the health care overhaul and its individual mandate, now being challenged in court by more than 20 states and several private organizations.

Under the legislation signed by President Obama in March, most Americans will have to maintain “minimum essential coverage” starting in 2014. Many people will be eligible for federal subsidies to help them pay premiums.
Source: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/18/healt … f=politics

via http://www.drudgereport.com/

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So can the government mandate a "tax" to all the people who don't have Car Insurance too?  This doesn't smell right.
2010-07-18 10:30:20
Harmor
Error_Name_Not_Found
+605|6833|San Diego, CA, USA
Update: Obama: Mandate is Not a Tax

ABC News wrote:

But in our most spirited exchange, the President refused to accept the argument that a mandate to buy health insurance is equivalent to a tax.

STEPHANOPOULOS:  You were against the individual mandate...

OBAMA:  Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS:  ...during the campaign.  Under this mandate, the government is forcing people to spend money, fining you if you don’t. How is that not a tax?

OBAMA:  Well, hold on a second, George. Here -- here's what's happening.  You and I are both paying $900, on average -- our families -- in higher premiums because of uncompensated care.  Now what I've said is that if you can't afford health insurance, you certainly shouldn't be punished for that.  That's just piling on. If, on the other hand, we're giving tax credits, we've set up an exchange, you are now part of a big pool, we've driven down the costs, we've done everything we can and you actually can afford health insurance, but you've just decided, you know what, I want to take my chances.  And then you get hit by a bus and you and I have to pay for the emergency room care, that's...

STEPHANOPOULOS:  That may be, but it's still a tax increase.

OBAMA:  No.  That's not true, George.  The -- for us to say that you've got to take a responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase.  What it's saying is, is that we're not going to have other people carrying your burdens for you anymore than the fact that right now everybody in America, just about, has to get auto insurance. Nobody considers that a tax increase. People say to themselves, that is a fair way to make sure that if you hit my car, that I'm not covering all the costs.
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So is this an official 'flip-flop' or a blatant lie?
2010-07-18 12:04:04
13rin
Member
+977|6764
It was a ruse.  Get the bulk passed and then slip the other part in.  He's always felt that way.  Any thing to help speed up Government run healthcare.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2010-07-18 12:05:35
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina
I would agree that Obama needs to own up to this being a tax. The first post demonstrates a valid and logical defense of the healthcare bill.

The problem is that people denounce taxation on a surface level without looking much at the cost-benefit analysis of each tax.  This leads to transparent flip flopping on issues like this one.
2010-07-18 14:50:16
RAIMIUS
You with the face!
+244|6999|US
He has a choice, admit to breaking his campaign promise and look like "just another tax and spend democrat" or play word games and look like "just another lying politician." 

...not an enviable situation to be in, but signing things you haven't read does have consequences.


Note: the "haven't read" bit is not just a jab at the President, but a criticism of those who create 2,000+ page laws.  How can anyone think it is wise to create a law for hundreds of millions and not even know what it will do? 
I fully understand that the President is a busy man, and don't think he should be forced to read 2,000+ page laws.  Let's face it, War and Peace, Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, and the Bible are all shorter than several of the laws that have been passed recently.

Last edited by RAIMIUS (2010-07-18 14:53:27)

2010-07-19 03:01:12
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|6696|'Murka

RAIMIUS is spot on ref bloated legislation, and the habit the politicians have of trying to oversimplify the position of "everyone has car insurance" derails the argument, as well.

A very rudimentary analysis of that oversimplification shows how this is nothing like it:

- People choose to drive. Driving is a privilege, as defined by multiple court rulings. The document that allows one to drive, the license, is owned by the issuing state and can be revoked at any time. Without said license and a vehicle owned by the driver, there is no requirement for insurance.

- The only type of insurance required is liability. That is to protect others. To pay for damages to others caused by you.

Those two characteristics alone show that car insurance is nothing at all like the insurance that is being mandated by this law.

In fact, there is no type of good or service out there that can be compared to this. This is not something that we already see in everyday life that we should just say, "OK, well if the govt says so, we should just do it," which is essentially the position that is being taken.

This is altogether new and they need to just be up front about it, rather than try to convince the public that it's really not with lame-ass metaphors that only expose their deceptiveness.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

 

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