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Turquoise wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Ok, I'll give you that to a degree.  Still, I would argue it had more to do with having a shitload of resources, geographical advantages (like not being next to aggressive and powerful countries), and economically expanding at the right period of time technologically speaking.

Can't do all that without self-determination Same as why the Puritan colonies were a lot better off than the ones in the South because of work ethic and individualism.

Well, some Southern colonies were penal (like Georgia), while others were plantation-based.  Much of the labor didn't have much choice regarding "self-determination."  They were already determined to be criminals or slaves.

Turquoise wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, some Southern colonies were penal (like Georgia), while others were plantation-based.  Much of the labor didn't have much choice regarding "self-determination."  They were already determined to be criminals or slaves.

They fared a lot better than French colonies too.

True....  well, other than the slaves, of course.

Ilocano wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Fair enough.  You're only worth as much as what the lowest bidder charges.

No, you're worth as much as you make yourself worth.

Let's use me as an example against a newly minted graduate.

Me: 29 year old graduate with a 3.95 GPA, military experience in which I was a team leader, graduated from one of the top high schools in the country, many years of work experience in unrelated fields + internship within field. Minor in international business.

Them: 22 year old graduate with a 2.5 GPA (average), zero life experience.

Pfft.  Apples to Oranges.  Same way a fresh graduate can't get my pay rate.  You have to wait at least 7 years before you can compare your present self to that 22 year old.  7 years is plenty of time for a skilled graduate to become a six figure Project Manager/Engineer.  How many more years before you think you'll become a Project Manager for a $250 Million+ contract?

Ilocano wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

Pfft.  Apples to Oranges.  Same way a fresh graduate can't get my pay rate.  You have to wait at least 7 years before you can compare your present self to that 22 year old.  7 years is plenty of time for a skilled graduate to become a six figure Project Manager/Engineer.  How many more years before you think you'll become a Project Manager for a $250 Million+ contract?

Considering I was made a PM for a $50M contract while an intern... I don't think very long

PM for the entire $50M as an intern?  The primary contractor?  Uhuh...  If so, cool for you.

Ilocano wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

PM for the entire $50M as an intern?  The primary contractor?  Uhuh...  If so, cool for you.

Well, I had oversight, but yeah.

Yeah, one of the best ways to get in.  One of my first major projects (30K employee domestic roll-out), not PM (just technical lead), was sweet.  But a great way to befriend all the power players.

Ilocano wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Ilocano wrote:

Yeah, one of the best ways to get in.  One of my first major projects (30K employee domestic roll-out), not PM (just technical lead), was sweet.  But a great way to befriend all the power players.

Government contract so I was essentially playing with house money. None of the regular guys wanted to get stuck with the paperwork so they dumped it in my lap and said 'have fun!' and I actually did.

God, being a PM is nice and all, as it can lead to executive management, but as an engineer/developer at heart, I still think there is too much BS with Corporate style project methodologies.  A VP and I would sometimes at some of the steps we have to go through because of project plan requirements.