BF2S Forums Police: Illegal Immigrants Raped 14yo Texas Girl at July 4th Party

JohnG@lt wrote:

[The entire concept that a person is limited to a certain geographical location based simply on where they were born is silly. It's not like the kid had any say in the matter. Those in favor of rigid immigration laws are essentially in favor of caste systems as well. So, unless you believe that poor people should stay poor because they were born poor, there is no rational justification for any country having closed borders.

Why not ship most of the population of Africa here?  I mean, the last time we did something like that, it was against their will, but today, I'm sure most Africans would prefer to live here if they had the ability to make the move.

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

[The entire concept that a person is limited to a certain geographical location based simply on where they were born is silly. It's not like the kid had any say in the matter. Those in favor of rigid immigration laws are essentially in favor of caste systems as well. So, unless you believe that poor people should stay poor because they were born poor, there is no rational justification for any country having closed borders.

Why not ship most of the population of Africa here?  I mean, the last time we did something like that, it was against their will, but today, I'm sure most Africans would prefer to live here if they had the ability to make the move.

If they can make their own way over here I don't have a problem with it. This way they at least show they have the desire to make something of themselves.

Dilbert_X wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Why not ship most of the population of Africa here?  I mean, the last time we did something like that, it was against their will, but today, I'm sure most Africans would prefer to live here if they had the ability to make the move.

If they can make their own way over here I don't have a problem with it. This way they at least show they have the desire to make something of themselves leach off American taxpayers.

Fixed for accuracy.

like Americans don't leach off of taxpayers as well, y'ever seen the welfare office?

JohnG@lt wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

The entire concept that a person is limited to a certain geographical location based simply on where they were born is silly. It's not like the kid had any say in the matter. Those in favor of rigid immigration laws are essentially in favor of caste systems as well. So, unless you believe that poor people should stay poor because they were born poor, there is no rational justification for any country having closed borders.

Why not ship most of the population of Africa here?  I mean, the last time we did something like that, it was against their will, but today, I'm sure most Africans would prefer to live here if they had the ability to make the move.

If they can make their own way over here I don't have a problem with it. This way they at least show they have the desire to make something of themselves.

See the highlighted.  You said you believe geographical location shouldn't limit where a person ends up living.  Well, the only reason so many Mexicans show up here instead of Africans is because they are right next door.  It doesn't mean that Mexicans have more determination than Africans -- it just means they have a shorter distance to get here.

So, in order to be consistent and logical, you have to acknowledge that immigration is inevitably always going to be connected to geography.  It's a nice idea that we should let anyone and everyone in that wants to come, but people are already affected by geography in ways that are "unfair" so to speak.

Having a completely open door policy of immigration actually just makes things even more lopsided in immigration.  This is part of why we implement quotas per country.  Yet, even with these in place, Mexicans and other Latinos bitch about what happens when they get caught sneaking in.

What Latino activists really want isn't equality.  What they want is the privilege of breaking rules that all other immigrant groups mostly follow and more or less have to follow because of geography.

The immigration debate has never really been one of racial equality -- it's been one where every special interest group wants to have their cake and eat it too.

As I've said before, it seems like the powers that be would prefer a system where cheap labor is abundant to the point where wages hit the rock bottom, while they get to make record profits employing these people and dodging taxes in the process.

If we let these interests get their way, say goodbye to your standard of living, and say hello to widespread poverty and crime.

The only people that should be terrified of immigrants are those that are freeloading off of the system or who are eminently replaceable in their job due to poor career and life choices they've made. I see no reason why these people should be coddled simply because they had the good fortune to be born in this country.

qfmotherfuckingt

Dilbert_X wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Hurricane2k9 wrote:

like Americans don't leach off of taxpayers as well, y'ever seen the welfare office?

usually african americans

Exactly.

Percentage of a particular race, yes.  But total population, whites and blacks are fairly even.

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

It shouldn't limit where we get our immigrants from. By the same token we shouldn't be overtly importing labor by paying for their boat trip or plane ride. You're trying to make this a slavery issue and it just doesn't hold water, sorry.

No, I didn't.  I was making an ironic reference to slavery, but you missed the point.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Of course immigration is going to be connected to geography. This is precisely why I said quotas are silly.

Then you should be perfectly ok with about half of Mexico's population moving here, because they would if they could.

JohnG@lt wrote:

You're also making the faulty assumption that every immigrant that arrives in this country will be completely unskilled labor and a drain on resources. Every wave of immigrants also brings innovation and people who want to create jobs as well. The same anti-immigration arguments have been made in this country since its founding. One group arrives and they immediately want the border closed behind them so they can reap the benefits of limited competition. For someone who is so keen to attack oligarchies and other attempts that companies make to limit competition in the market, you're making the exact same arguments they do in order to justify their behavior and to protect yourself from competition. Talk about having your cake and eating it too

Bullshit.  I acknowledge that plenty of immigrants are skilled labor...  which leads me to...

JohnG@lt wrote:

The only people that should be terrified of immigrants are those that are freeloading off of the system or who are eminently replaceable in their job due to poor career and life choices they've made. I see no reason why these people should be coddled simply because they had the good fortune to be born in this country.

EVERYONE is replaceable.  You think you're special because you're an engineer.  You're not.  India churns out millions of them every year.  If India bordered us instead of Mexico, you'd likely be out of a job or at least accepting a much lower pay than you currently do.

So if you're so keen about opening things completely up to everyone, ask yourself if you're ok with accepting a much lower wage than you currently do.  Since you're not in an industry directly affected by illegals, it's easy for you to be pro-immigration.  If you were, you wouldn't be such an elitist douchebag about it.

Thousands of engineers arrive from India every year due to the shortage of graduating engineers here in America. I'm not in an unaffected field at all. I'm just confident in my own abilities and know that I will succeed in life.

Turquoise wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

It shouldn't limit where we get our immigrants from. By the same token we shouldn't be overtly importing labor by paying for their boat trip or plane ride. You're trying to make this a slavery issue and it just doesn't hold water, sorry.

No, I didn't.  I was making an ironic reference to slavery, but you missed the point.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Of course immigration is going to be connected to geography. This is precisely why I said quotas are silly.

Then you should be perfectly ok with about half of Mexico's population moving here, because they would if they could.

JohnG@lt wrote:

You're also making the faulty assumption that every immigrant that arrives in this country will be completely unskilled labor and a drain on resources. Every wave of immigrants also brings innovation and people who want to create jobs as well. The same anti-immigration arguments have been made in this country since its founding. One group arrives and they immediately want the border closed behind them so they can reap the benefits of limited competition. For someone who is so keen to attack oligarchies and other attempts that companies make to limit competition in the market, you're making the exact same arguments they do in order to justify their behavior and to protect yourself from competition. Talk about having your cake and eating it too

Bullshit.  I acknowledge that plenty of immigrants are skilled labor...  which leads me to...

JohnG@lt wrote:

The only people that should be terrified of immigrants are those that are freeloading off of the system or who are eminently replaceable in their job due to poor career and life choices they've made. I see no reason why these people should be coddled simply because they had the good fortune to be born in this country.

EVERYONE is replaceable.  You think you're special because you're an engineer.  You're not.  India churns out millions of them every year.  If India bordered us instead of Mexico, you'd likely be out of a job or at least accepting a much lower pay than you currently do.

So if you're so keen about opening things completely up to everyone, ask yourself if you're ok with accepting a much lower wage than you currently do.  Since you're not in an industry directly affected by illegals, it's easy for you to be pro-immigration.  If you were, you wouldn't be such an elitist douchebag about it.

Actually with the pay theory Indian workers salaries will rise a lot as their quality of living will. It would be equivalent to that of a US engineer. Sure there'd be tensions if you open the floodgates, but after a while the pay will equalize, just look at the EU. It's not like once you completely open up your borders everyone would want to come into your country, that's just silly.

If it weren't for the huge amounts of Immigrants coming into America during the 19th and 20th century, USA wouldn't be a world power. Protectionist policies never worked, and never will work. Immigration is a good thing for everyone, why would you want to keep your product and services artificially high?

Immigration isn't a good thing for everyone, there are still negative effects to it.


THEY TOOK R JORBS!

And nation pride/identity

And the fact some send most of their wages back home.

jord wrote:

Immigration isn't a good thing for everyone, there are still negative effects to it.


THEY TOOK R JORBS!

And nation pride/identity

And the fact some send most of their wages back home.

they still buy shit owned by white people. globalization dawg.

Cybargs wrote:

Actually with the pay theory Indian workers salaries will rise a lot as their quality of living will. It would be equivalent to that of a US engineer. Sure there'd be tensions if you open the floodgates, but after a while the pay will equalize, just look at the EU. It's not like once you completely open up your borders everyone would want to come into your country, that's just silly.

The pay would still fall somewhat as compared to our average salaries for the same job.  It would rise a lot compared to the Indian norm though.

But yes, if we did open things up completely on the Southern border, you can be sure we'd have more Mexicans here than our infrastructure could handle.  The reason for this is because Mexico really is that shitty.

Cybargs wrote:

If it weren't for the huge amounts of Immigrants coming into America during the 19th and 20th century, USA wouldn't be a world power. Protectionist policies never worked, and never will work. Immigration is a good thing for everyone, why would you want to keep your product and services artificially high?

I'd like to keep my standard of living high.  It comes with the territory.  If you don't understand how this works, then look at protectionist countries like Norway.  They have a very high standard of living.  Yes, it's expensive to live there, but that doesn't matter, because they get paid more, and their public amenities are very good.

Besides, your argument ignores the changes our economy has had since that time.  We were a manufacturing power back then.  We needed cheap labor.  Nowadays, we're mostly service based -- which doesn't depend as much on cheap labor.

Cybargs wrote:

Norway has a high standard of living because 1)It's sitting under a shit ton of oil 2) It has only 4 million people 3) The population lives around cities in the South, making infrastructure very very cheap. Most jobs that current illegal immigrants will do you can bet your ass most American's wouldn't want to do in the first place. Sure they send money back home, increasing the standard of living there and then they might move back. Same effect happened with India and their economic boom, a lot of Engineers went back home to work. I'm sure if the borders were completely opened to Mexico, there'd be the same amount of immigrants, due to the ease of sneaking in. If someone is that determined to go to the US, they can just drive up the border with a passport and check in on a 90 day visa. The "THEY TOOK OUR DERBS" argument isn't really working well here Turq.

Well, if we're gonna play that game, we'd better dismantle the social safety net completely.  Time for Social Darwinism.

Cybargs wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Norway has a high standard of living because 1)It's sitting under a shit ton of oil 2) It has only 4 million people 3) The population lives around cities in the South, making infrastructure very very cheap. Most jobs that current illegal immigrants will do you can bet your ass most American's wouldn't want to do in the first place. Sure they send money back home, increasing the standard of living there and then they might move back. Same effect happened with India and their economic boom, a lot of Engineers went back home to work. I'm sure if the borders were completely opened to Mexico, there'd be the same amount of immigrants, due to the ease of sneaking in. If someone is that determined to go to the US, they can just drive up the border with a passport and check in on a 90 day visa. The "THEY TOOK OUR DERBS" argument isn't really working well here Turq.

Well, if we're gonna play that game, we'd better dismantle the social safety net completely.  Time for Social Darwinism.

Immigrants usually don't lower the standard of living, but actually increase it because they make products a lot cheaper. Think of it like Wal-Marts coming into town.

And what do the people do that lose their jobs?  They live off of the system.  The only way to counter that is to get rid of social programs that allow that.