Sorry, if you can not see that Christianity is a belief while Islam is a way of life and culture embedded with all aspects of personal political and social life, I can not help ya.Dilbert_X wrote:
Nor do christianity or judaism, so whats your point?Islam does not recognize separation between church and state therefore is not truely compatable with western society.
Yup I do accept that, Christianity is the epitome of contradiction. However, this:mcminty wrote:
Yet I'm sure you wouldn't accept anything this source presents - http://www.evilbible.com/lowing wrote:
Islam and violence walk hand in hand.
http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/Pages … .htm#other
What is Norway's view on democracy and freedom and tolerance? Are gays chastised and condemned?Varegg wrote:
So is that wrong? ... it's not like the western society is the only correct blueprint as to how a society should be ... hell, even Norway haven't separated state and church ... so how about that? ... now there you have fundamentalist Norway in a nutshelllowing wrote:
Islam does not recognize separation between church and state therefore is not truely compatable with western society.
and yet the church isn't and Islam is.Dilbert_X wrote:
You know, most western societies have only achieved democracy by stomping on the church and barring it from govt.
The Christians would like to be in govt just as much as the muslims.
I don't "claim" bias, it is bias. Anyone with an objective approach can see that almost immediately - look at the name of the site ffslowing wrote:
You keep claiming the site is biased, and none of you have ever addressed any of the information in that site. I have asked time and time again for anny of you to attack the information. Call it lies and show why it is lies. You do not do this. The most any of you have done is claim intellectual superiority and refuse to discuss the information. Sorry, that is not an argument. . Come out with information that shows Islam is not violent in in its teachings or intolerant in its laws. You all do this shit all the time. This is a debate thread, debate.Jaekus wrote:
I don't put much worth in someone who uses a biased website to somehow validate their argument. But no matter how many people tell you this, you still can't understand the simplicity of what's being told. An 8th grader could easily comprehend what's going on here. You however, seem oblivious.
People have addressed all you are saying and more, you're blinkered or possibly blind. Can't reason with someone who has their head in the sand. Just saying how it is.
Telling me I am wrong is not addressing anything. Telling me you have a buddy that is Muslim and he is a great guy does not show Islam as tolerant and non-violent. Beating your chest claiming how superior you are does not do anything in showing how peaceful Islam is. Claiming I am just stupid and not worth the bother, does not prove the information I cited as wrong.
Sorry, you need to do better than that, I have asked for an argument for several pages now, and absolutely none of you have provided anything other than self proclaimed victory because I am not worthy of your attentions...Gunna have to do better than that.
Address the information, show how it is wrong. You claim bias, but it is easy to claim bias and dismiss any POV that is not yours. This forum is full of that tactic. It is the cheap way out of any argument.
If you have not noticed, as unpopular as my POV is on most topics, I stay and argue my point. I have never claimed bias and dismissed anyone elses argument. How about you give it a shot for once?
You carry on like you know all this stuff about Islam when clearly you don't. Opinion isn't knowledge dude, and all you are talking is opinion. If it wasn't just opinion, why do you have about a dozen people, from different walks of life from all over the world all telling you you're wrong in this? Have you even begun to question this?
No, because unfortunately for you you'll never be able to see anything outside your severely blinkered POV. Just because you say something over and over again doesn't start to make it true, it just further makes you look more incorrect to more people.
You constantly dismiss any POV that isn't yours but simultaneously play that card onto others. That's about the biggest load of hypocrisy I've read from anyone on any forum for a very long time.
actually I don't. I post facts that back up my opinion, articles that back up my opinion, current evets that back up my opinion, ISLAMIC LEADERS that back up my opinion. I do not care if you say 36 billion people say I am wrong, without showing me I am wrong it means nothing.Jaekus wrote:
I don't "claim" bias, it is bias. Anyone with an objective approach can see that almost immediately - look at the name of the site ffslowing wrote:
You keep claiming the site is biased, and none of you have ever addressed any of the information in that site. I have asked time and time again for anny of you to attack the information. Call it lies and show why it is lies. You do not do this. The most any of you have done is claim intellectual superiority and refuse to discuss the information. Sorry, that is not an argument. . Come out with information that shows Islam is not violent in in its teachings or intolerant in its laws. You all do this shit all the time. This is a debate thread, debate.Jaekus wrote:
I don't put much worth in someone who uses a biased website to somehow validate their argument. But no matter how many people tell you this, you still can't understand the simplicity of what's being told. An 8th grader could easily comprehend what's going on here. You however, seem oblivious.
People have addressed all you are saying and more, you're blinkered or possibly blind. Can't reason with someone who has their head in the sand. Just saying how it is.
Telling me I am wrong is not addressing anything. Telling me you have a buddy that is Muslim and he is a great guy does not show Islam as tolerant and non-violent. Beating your chest claiming how superior you are does not do anything in showing how peaceful Islam is. Claiming I am just stupid and not worth the bother, does not prove the information I cited as wrong.
Sorry, you need to do better than that, I have asked for an argument for several pages now, and absolutely none of you have provided anything other than self proclaimed victory because I am not worthy of your attentions...Gunna have to do better than that.
Address the information, show how it is wrong. You claim bias, but it is easy to claim bias and dismiss any POV that is not yours. This forum is full of that tactic. It is the cheap way out of any argument.
If you have not noticed, as unpopular as my POV is on most topics, I stay and argue my point. I have never claimed bias and dismissed anyone elses argument. How about you give it a shot for once?
You carry on like you know all this stuff about Islam when clearly you don't. Opinion isn't knowledge dude, and all you are talking is opinion. If it wasn't just opinion, why do you have about a dozen people, from different walks of life from all over the world all telling you you're wrong in this? Have you even begun to question this?
No, because unfortunately for you you'll never be able to see anything outside your severely blinkered POV. Just because you say something over and over again doesn't start to make it true, it just further makes you look more incorrect to more people.
You constantly dismiss any POV that isn't yours but simultaneously play that card onto others. That's about the biggest load of hypocrisy I've read from anyone on any forum for a very long time.
All of this, and you still provide nothing but lip service as to how wrong I am......ADDRESS THE FACTS IN THE SOURCES.
If we discussed abortion, and i provided information that abortion was murder, or a right, you would claim bias on that information as well.
Your bias argument is bullshit. Is the information factual or not? That is your question.
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-02 08:34:00)
I don't need to tread the same ground others have already tread. It's been pointed out to you with more eloquence than I care to attempt how your bias is applied to your arguments in previous pages along with "sources" that simply don't hold enough water. If you choose to ignore these and still bang on with the same tired, worn out and frankly outdated argument then I guess you can keep your own counsel and think whatever you like, cause you'll never learn or open your eyes to anything you don't want to consider or see. Kinda pity you in that regard.
Last edited by Jaekus (2010-07-02 09:10:58)
lmao! Of course you don't need to, because it is impossible to present Islam as peaceful tolerant and accepting. If you could you would have done so with more than mere dismissals and redirections and self proclaimed superiority.Jaekus wrote:
I don't need to tread the same ground others have already tread. It's been pointed out to you with more eloquence than I care to attempt how your bias is applied to your arguments in previous pages along with "sources" that simply don't hold enough water. If you choose to ignore these and still bang on with the same tired, worn out and frankly outdated argument then I guess you can keep your own counsel and think whatever you like, cause you'll never learn or open your eyes to anything you don't want to consider or see. Kinda pity you in that regard.
I can go all day long and post article after article, example after example, current event after current even, Islamic leader after Islamic leader, Muslim after Muslim that shows their is something to the claims that Islam is violent and intolerant. It is not MY opinion, it is the fucking worlds opinion. I just didn't make this shit up.
If you want my eyes opened, then open them, PROVE THAT Islam is not steeped in violence and intolerance in its culture, its beliefs, its teachings and its actions. Oh, and you are gunna have to do morethan just present some guy you know in class, or watched you drink.
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-02 09:58:29)
You know there is provision for Sharia law to be used over here?Uzique wrote:
lowing it is a fucking few and there is no any-which-way to spin it otherwise:
the number of muslims protesting and holding the opinion that shariah law should operate in britain is a tiny minority compared to the numbers of completely content and ordinary muslims in the country that prosper and live in peace and happiness under the current british system. a tiny minority. there are fringe groups in every religion, political party and general gathering of people- it's nothing new and it's certainly nothing incriminating of islam.
Rowan Williams got in trouble for saying it was a good thing, which it clearly is when you actually look at what that means in practice.
yeah, i know that... but lowing is talking more about the demonstrators than the evils of shariah law in england (which isn't even worth addressing).
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
You don't want to open your eyes so I'm not going to waste my time on you.lowing wrote:
lmao! Of course you don't need to, because it is impossible to present Islam as peaceful tolerant and accepting. If you could you would have done so with more than mere dismissals and redirections and self proclaimed superiority.Jaekus wrote:
I don't need to tread the same ground others have already tread. It's been pointed out to you with more eloquence than I care to attempt how your bias is applied to your arguments in previous pages along with "sources" that simply don't hold enough water. If you choose to ignore these and still bang on with the same tired, worn out and frankly outdated argument then I guess you can keep your own counsel and think whatever you like, cause you'll never learn or open your eyes to anything you don't want to consider or see. Kinda pity you in that regard.
I can go all day long and post article after article, example after example, current event after current even, Islamic leader after Islamic leader, Muslim after Muslim that shows their is something to the claims that Islam is violent and intolerant. It is not MY opinion, it is the fucking worlds opinion. I just didn't make this shit up.
If you want my eyes opened, then open them, PROVE THAT Islam is not steeped in violence and intolerance in its culture, its beliefs, its teachings and its actions. Oh, and you are gunna have to do morethan just present some guy you know in class, or watched you drink.
oh but of course.......LOL, that tactic has always been one of my favorites to observe...Dismiss, deny, ignore with self righteousness and superiority as justification. A hard "argument" to counter, no doubt.Jaekus wrote:
You don't want to open your eyes so I'm not going to waste my time on you.lowing wrote:
lmao! Of course you don't need to, because it is impossible to present Islam as peaceful tolerant and accepting. If you could you would have done so with more than mere dismissals and redirections and self proclaimed superiority.Jaekus wrote:
I don't need to tread the same ground others have already tread. It's been pointed out to you with more eloquence than I care to attempt how your bias is applied to your arguments in previous pages along with "sources" that simply don't hold enough water. If you choose to ignore these and still bang on with the same tired, worn out and frankly outdated argument then I guess you can keep your own counsel and think whatever you like, cause you'll never learn or open your eyes to anything you don't want to consider or see. Kinda pity you in that regard.
I can go all day long and post article after article, example after example, current event after current even, Islamic leader after Islamic leader, Muslim after Muslim that shows their is something to the claims that Islam is violent and intolerant. It is not MY opinion, it is the fucking worlds opinion. I just didn't make this shit up.
If you want my eyes opened, then open them, PROVE THAT Islam is not steeped in violence and intolerance in its culture, its beliefs, its teachings and its actions. Oh, and you are gunna have to do more than just present some guy you know in class, or watched you drink.
I am talking about Islam in England, and your assertion that there are no issues, controversies surrounding its presence. there is an entire media that says you are full of shit. Oh, including media from England.Uzique wrote:
yeah, i know that... but lowing is talking more about the demonstrators than the evils of shariah law in england (which isn't even worth addressing).
Huh? I'm just telling you the truth. Why do I need to rehash what you've been told by others and won't listen to? I won't waste my time.lowing wrote:
oh but of course.......LOL, that tactic has always been one of my favorites to observe...Dismiss, deny, ignore with self righteousness and superiority as justification. A hard "argument" to counter, no doubt.Jaekus wrote:
You don't want to open your eyes so I'm not going to waste my time on you.lowing wrote:
lmao! Of course you don't need to, because it is impossible to present Islam as peaceful tolerant and accepting. If you could you would have done so with more than mere dismissals and redirections and self proclaimed superiority.
I can go all day long and post article after article, example after example, current event after current even, Islamic leader after Islamic leader, Muslim after Muslim that shows their is something to the claims that Islam is violent and intolerant. It is not MY opinion, it is the fucking worlds opinion. I just didn't make this shit up.
If you want my eyes opened, then open them, PROVE THAT Islam is not steeped in violence and intolerance in its culture, its beliefs, its teachings and its actions. Oh, and you are gunna have to do more than just present some guy you know in class, or watched you drink.
lol. as I said...............being told something is not the same as being SHOWN something. I am TOLD ghosts exist as well, does little to prove it.Jaekus wrote:
Huh? I'm just telling you the truth. Why do I need to rehash what you've been told by others and won't listen to? I won't waste my time.lowing wrote:
oh but of course.......LOL, that tactic has always been one of my favorites to observe...Dismiss, deny, ignore with self righteousness and superiority as justification. A hard "argument" to counter, no doubt.Jaekus wrote:
You don't want to open your eyes so I'm not going to waste my time on you.
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-02 10:18:17)
No there isn't.lowing wrote:
I am talking about Islam in England, and your assertion that there are no issues, controversies surrounding its presence. there is an entire media that says you are full of shit. Oh, including media from England.Uzique wrote:
yeah, i know that... but lowing is talking more about the demonstrators than the evils of shariah law in england (which isn't even worth addressing).
Except the Daily Mail.
There are just as many articles that say more Islam could be good for London, like this article from Time Out:
http://www.timeout.com/london/big-smoke … lamic.html
The face of Islam in London is not at all how you present it. I can guarantee that I see more media focused on London than you do, very, very little of it has anything bad to say about Islam.It‘s the capital‘s fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place
You can always find extreme sources saying anything. Are they mainstream opinion, that's the question.
Last edited by Bertster7 (2010-07-02 10:22:06)
You want to be shown how to go to a university library and get researched books on Islam? I thought that was a pretty simple thing to do tbh.lowing wrote:
lol. as I said...............being told something is not the same as being SHOWN something. I am TOLD ghosts exist as well, does little to prove it.Jaekus wrote:
Huh? I'm just telling you the truth. Why do I need to rehash what you've been told by others and won't listen to? I won't waste my time.lowing wrote:
oh but of course.......LOL, that tactic has always been one of my favorites to observe...Dismiss, deny, ignore with self righteousness and superiority as justification. A hard "argument" to counter, no doubt.
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm have you actually read that article??????????........You might want to before you post something like that. It does little to bolster your argument and a great deal to bolster mine.Bertster7 wrote:
No there isn't.lowing wrote:
I am talking about Islam in England, and your assertion that there are no issues, controversies surrounding its presence. there is an entire media that says you are full of shit. Oh, including media from England.Uzique wrote:
yeah, i know that... but lowing is talking more about the demonstrators than the evils of shariah law in england (which isn't even worth addressing).
Except the Daily Mail.
There are just as many articles that say more Islam could be good for London, like this article from Time Out:
http://www.timeout.com/london/big-smoke … lamic.htmlThe face of Islam in London is not at all how you present it. I can guarantee that I see more media focused on London than you do, very, very little of it has anything bad to say about Islam.It‘s the capital‘s fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place
You can always find extreme sources saying anything. Are they mainstream opinion, that's the question.
"Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim – it doesn’t matter what colour you are. End of story."
^^^^^^^^^^
from your article and most of it is similar to this attitude.
Is this how you all feel? Really? We are in trouble.
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-02 10:26:48)
Mistrust and misunderstanding.lowing wrote:
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm have you actually read that article??????????........You might want to before you post something like that. It does little to bolster your argument and a great deal to bolster mine.Bertster7 wrote:
No there isn't.lowing wrote:
I am talking about Islam in England, and your assertion that there are no issues, controversies surrounding its presence. there is an entire media that says you are full of shit. Oh, including media from England.
Except the Daily Mail.
There are just as many articles that say more Islam could be good for London, like this article from Time Out:
http://www.timeout.com/london/big-smoke … lamic.htmlThe face of Islam in London is not at all how you present it. I can guarantee that I see more media focused on London than you do, very, very little of it has anything bad to say about Islam.It‘s the capital‘s fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place
You can always find extreme sources saying anything. Are they mainstream opinion, that's the question.
"Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim – it doesn’t matter what colour you are. End of story."
^^^^^^^^^^
from your article and most of it is similar to this attitude.
Is this how you all feel? Really? We are in trouble.
lowing in a nutshell
ohhhhhhhhhh another quote from the article
"it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London'
how sweet, Islamic rule COULD allow accommodations for other faith groups in London. Under their guiding hand of course....
appreciate the help with my argument, you are welcome anytime with more sources.
"it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London'
how sweet, Islamic rule COULD allow accommodations for other faith groups in London. Under their guiding hand of course....
appreciate the help with my argument, you are welcome anytime with more sources.
errrmlowing wrote:
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm have you actually read that article??????????........You might want to before you post something like that. It does little to bolster your argument and a great deal to bolster mine.Bertster7 wrote:
No there isn't.lowing wrote:
I am talking about Islam in England, and your assertion that there are no issues, controversies surrounding its presence. there is an entire media that says you are full of shit. Oh, including media from England.
Except the Daily Mail.
There are just as many articles that say more Islam could be good for London, like this article from Time Out:
http://www.timeout.com/london/big-smoke … lamic.htmlThe face of Islam in London is not at all how you present it. I can guarantee that I see more media focused on London than you do, very, very little of it has anything bad to say about Islam.It‘s the capital‘s fastest growing religion, based on noble traditions and compassionate principles, yet Islam can still be tainted by mistrust and misunderstanding. Here Time Out argues that an Islamic London would be a better place
You can always find extreme sources saying anything. Are they mainstream opinion, that's the question.
"Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim – it doesn’t matter what colour you are. End of story."
^^^^^^^^^^
from your article and most of it is similar to this attitude.
Is this how you all feel? Really? We are in trouble.
what the FUCK is wrong with that attitude? racial and ethnic equality to everyone in a religion? more than christianity can say after the subjugation of black africa and latin america to superior white-european spaniards and the power of rome...
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Oh I see, I have misunderstood huh? Again you might wanna read what you source. It is scary.Bertster7 wrote:
Mistrust and misunderstanding.lowing wrote:
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm have you actually read that article??????????........You might want to before you post something like that. It does little to bolster your argument and a great deal to bolster mine.Bertster7 wrote:
No there isn't.lowing wrote:
I am talking about Islam in England, and your assertion that there are no issues, controversies surrounding its presence. there is an entire media that says you are full of shit. Oh, including media from England.
Except the Daily Mail.
There are just as many articles that say more Islam could be good for London, like this article from Time Out:
http://www.timeout.com/london/big-smoke … lamic.html
The face of Islam in London is not at all how you present it. I can guarantee that I see more media focused on London than you do, very, very little of it has anything bad to say about Islam.
You can always find extreme sources saying anything. Are they mainstream opinion, that's the question.
"Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim – it doesn’t matter what colour you are. End of story."
^^^^^^^^^^
from your article and most of it is similar to this attitude.
Is this how you all feel? Really? We are in trouble.
lowing in a nutshell
Mistrust and misunderstanding.lowing wrote:
ohhhhhhhhhh another quote from the article
"it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London'
how sweet, Islamic rule COULD allow accommodations for other faith groups in London. Under their guiding hand of course....
appreciate the help with my argument, you are welcome anytime with more sources.
lowing in a nutshell
"Once you have submitted to Allah" now, tell me again how Islam intentions are to co-exist peacefully?Uzique wrote:
errrmlowing wrote:
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm have you actually read that article??????????........You might want to before you post something like that. It does little to bolster your argument and a great deal to bolster mine.Bertster7 wrote:
No there isn't.lowing wrote:
I am talking about Islam in England, and your assertion that there are no issues, controversies surrounding its presence. there is an entire media that says you are full of shit. Oh, including media from England.
Except the Daily Mail.
There are just as many articles that say more Islam could be good for London, like this article from Time Out:
http://www.timeout.com/london/big-smoke … lamic.html
The face of Islam in London is not at all how you present it. I can guarantee that I see more media focused on London than you do, very, very little of it has anything bad to say about Islam.
You can always find extreme sources saying anything. Are they mainstream opinion, that's the question.
"Race relations
Under Islam all ethnicities are equal. Once you have submitted to Allah you are a Muslim – it doesn’t matter what colour you are. End of story."
^^^^^^^^^^
from your article and most of it is similar to this attitude.
Is this how you all feel? Really? We are in trouble.
what the FUCK is wrong with that attitude? racial and ethnic equality to everyone in a religion? more than christianity can say after the subjugation of black africa and latin america to superior white-european spaniards and the power of rome...
never mind, you just keep bringing gems like that article. Stuff like that is fantasitc ammo for my opinion. got anymore?Bertster7 wrote:
Mistrust and misunderstanding.lowing wrote:
ohhhhhhhhhh another quote from the article
"it is reasonable to assume that under the guiding hand of Islam a civilised accommodation could be made among faith groups in London'
how sweet, Islamic rule COULD allow accommodations for other faith groups in London. Under their guiding hand of course....
appreciate the help with my argument, you are welcome anytime with more sources.
lowing in a nutshell
Last edited by lowing (2010-07-02 10:34:58)