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2010-06-23 09:39:50
globefish23
sophisticated slacker
+334|6609|Graz, Austria
The cop might have overreacted my immediately punching her to the face (he may just have shoved her away and readied his baton/pepper spray/tazer), but it's definitely the girl's fault.
If you try to evade or resist an enforcement officer and even use physical force against him, you're in for it.

And I say that being quite left or "liberal" as you Yanks call it.

Heck, here in Austria you can often wriggle yourself out of getting a ticket by being very nice, polite and cooperative with the cops.
More so as a woman.

That said, I've witnessed similar situations with 2 cops being surrounded by 10-15 drunk people on a Saturday night, trying to arrest one of them and getting shoved and yelled at, and I thought that I didn't want to be in their place now.
They had already called back-up before though, and a lot of it.
2010-06-23 20:07:42
Stingray24
Proud member of the vast right-wing conspiracy
+1,060|6730|The Land of Scott Walker
I'm pretty sure society would be much better off if more sassy 17 year olds with no respect for authority were punched in the face.
2010-06-23 20:41:39
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

I stand by what I said, I bet you give the benefit of the doubt to the police 100% of the time as well. That is to say given any situation you stumble across, you will run to the cop for protection or advice over anyone else in the heat of the moment. IE, you will trust the cops judgement first.
That depends on the situation and on the local police force.  For example, I would be a lot more reluctant to trust L.A.'s police force than the force here in my city.

lowing wrote:

I loved the Henry Gates example regarding this. All of you instantly jumped on the "the cop is a racist" bandwagon until it had been proven the cop was 100% in the right and Gates was the fuckin racist that deserved to be arrested. After that came out what happened, dead silence, no apologies to the cop no admittance that Gates or any of you was wrong. You all just shut the fuck up and life went on.
Henry Gates is a dumbass.  I supported the cops in that situation because when people pull the race card (especially well-to-do people), they're usually full of shit.
2010-06-23 20:47:27
DrunkFace
Germans did 911
+427|6967|Disaster Free Zone
All I get from this thread is America needs to review and change their jaywalking laws.
2010-06-24 08:55:48
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6981|NJ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XFb9VmBp … embedded#!
2010-06-24 09:00:42
RTHKI
mmmf mmmf mmmf
+1,743|7022|Cinncinatti

DrunkFace wrote:

All I get from this thread is America needs to review and change their jaywalking laws.
never heard of them being enforced till this incident really
https://i.imgur.com/tMvdWFG.png
2010-06-24 14:02:24
LostFate
Same shit, Different Arsehole
+95|6771|England

Stingray24 wrote:

I'm pretty sure society would be much better off if more sassy 17 year olds with no respect for authority were punched in the face.
Who's fucking authority, you can't cross the fucking street without getting punched in the face by some pig?
2010-06-24 14:04:28
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6415|North Tonawanda, NY

LostFate wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

I'm pretty sure society would be much better off if more sassy 17 year olds with no respect for authority were punched in the face.
Who's fucking authority, you can't cross the fucking street without getting punched in the face by some pig?
If you'll notice, the one who was getting stopped didn't get punched...it was her friend that assaulted her.  Break the law in front of a cop and you should expect to be talked to.  If you resist and your friend assaults that cop, then...the friend can expect to be 'pacified'.  No one was punched merely because of jaywalking.
2010-06-24 14:39:05
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6981|NJ

SenorToenails wrote:

LostFate wrote:

Stingray24 wrote:

I'm pretty sure society would be much better off if more sassy 17 year olds with no respect for authority were punched in the face.
Who's fucking authority, you can't cross the fucking street without getting punched in the face by some pig?
If you'll notice, the one who was getting stopped didn't get punched...it was her friend that assaulted her.  Break the law in front of a cop and you should expect to be talked to.  If you resist and your friend assaults that cop, then...the friend can expect to be 'pacified'.  No one was punched merely because of jaywalking.
You don't get talked to, you get a Fine and in most cases the fines are outrages. Then  you'll get a bunch of other shit on top of that, and in a broken system that is very hard to get out of.
2010-06-24 14:52:18
SenorToenails
Veritas et Scientia
+444|6415|North Tonawanda, NY

cpt.fass1 wrote:

You don't get talked to, you get a Fine and in most cases the fines are outrages. Then  you'll get a bunch of other shit on top of that, and in a broken system that is very hard to get out of.
'expect to be talked to' was meant to mean that the consequences would need to be dealt with somehow.  If that means a warning, ticket, or arrest, you'll be hearing from someone.

Edit: Yes, the fines suck.  But the worst part is the 'court fee'...wtf is with that?

Last edited by SenorToenails (2010-06-24 14:54:49)

2010-06-24 15:11:50
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|6981|NJ
Yeah I'm all for a fair and just law system, not the gouge and throw in jail if you can't pay that the US is in right now.  We have a punishment system that is based on money and corruption. I"m sure it really wasn't intended to be this way, at least I hope it wasn't. But those brand new cars and buildings have to come from somewhere and the tax revenue just isn't enough any more.
2010-06-24 18:03:42
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

I stand by what I said, I bet you give the benefit of the doubt to the police 100% of the time as well. That is to say given any situation you stumble across, you will run to the cop for protection or advice over anyone else in the heat of the moment. IE, you will trust the cops judgement first.
That depends on the situation and on the local police force.  For example, I would be a lot more reluctant to trust L.A.'s police force than the force here in my city.

lowing wrote:

I loved the Henry Gates example regarding this. All of you instantly jumped on the "the cop is a racist" bandwagon until it had been proven the cop was 100% in the right and Gates was the fuckin racist that deserved to be arrested. After that came out what happened, dead silence, no apologies to the cop no admittance that Gates or any of you was wrong. You all just shut the fuck up and life went on.
Henry Gates is a dumbass.  I supported the cops in that situation because when people pull the race card (especially well-to-do people), they're usually full of shit.
Would you trust any US police force over a guy in ski mask and a gun in a bank? Yes? Then you give the police the benefit of the doubt. There is no situation where you would stumble across a cop and a civilian pointing guns at each other and you would aid the civilian. Again benefit of the doubt goes to the cop. Like it or not.

Regarding Gates, you know the point I was making.
2010-06-24 18:12:42
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

I stand by what I said, I bet you give the benefit of the doubt to the police 100% of the time as well. That is to say given any situation you stumble across, you will run to the cop for protection or advice over anyone else in the heat of the moment. IE, you will trust the cops judgement first.
That depends on the situation and on the local police force.  For example, I would be a lot more reluctant to trust L.A.'s police force than the force here in my city.

lowing wrote:

I loved the Henry Gates example regarding this. All of you instantly jumped on the "the cop is a racist" bandwagon until it had been proven the cop was 100% in the right and Gates was the fuckin racist that deserved to be arrested. After that came out what happened, dead silence, no apologies to the cop no admittance that Gates or any of you was wrong. You all just shut the fuck up and life went on.
Henry Gates is a dumbass.  I supported the cops in that situation because when people pull the race card (especially well-to-do people), they're usually full of shit.
Would you trust any US police force over a guy in ski mask and a gun in a bank? Yes? Then you give the police the benefit of the doubt. There is no situation where you would stumble across a cop and a civilian pointing guns at each other and you would aid the civilian. Again benefit of the doubt goes to the cop. Like it or not.

Regarding Gates, you know the point I was making.
So, we've gone from an example involving a fat lady pushing a cop off of a friend with the cop punching her in the face, and you're using an example with a guy wearing a ski mask and wielding a gun.

Nice strawman.
2010-06-24 18:14:48
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

I stand by what I said, I bet you give the benefit of the doubt to the police 100% of the time as well. That is to say given any situation you stumble across, you will run to the cop for protection or advice over anyone else in the heat of the moment. IE, you will trust the cops judgement first.
That depends on the situation and on the local police force.  For example, I would be a lot more reluctant to trust L.A.'s police force than the force here in my city.


Henry Gates is a dumbass.  I supported the cops in that situation because when people pull the race card (especially well-to-do people), they're usually full of shit.
Would you trust any US police force over a guy in ski mask and a gun in a bank? Yes? Then you give the police the benefit of the doubt. There is no situation where you would stumble across a cop and a civilian pointing guns at each other and you would aid the civilian. Again benefit of the doubt goes to the cop. Like it or not.

Regarding Gates, you know the point I was making.
So, we've gone from an example involving a fat lady pushing a cop off of a friend with the cop punching her in the face, and you're using an example with a guy wearing a ski mask and wielding a gun.

Nice strawman.
Nope, we have gone from one example of a cop being assaulted to another. There is no situation where a cop is under attack and you would think the one attacking the cop is in need of assistance.
2010-06-24 18:18:16
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:


Would you trust any US police force over a guy in ski mask and a gun in a bank? Yes? Then you give the police the benefit of the doubt. There is no situation where you would stumble across a cop and a civilian pointing guns at each other and you would aid the civilian. Again benefit of the doubt goes to the cop. Like it or not.

Regarding Gates, you know the point I was making.
So, we've gone from an example involving a fat lady pushing a cop off of a friend with the cop punching her in the face, and you're using an example with a guy wearing a ski mask and wielding a gun.

Nice strawman.
Nope, we have gone from one example of a cop being assaulted to another. There is no situation where a cop is under attack and you would think the one attacking the cop is in need of assistance.
I don't know...  I can think of a few....

https://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/kent-famousphoto.jpg
2010-06-24 19:46:38
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


So, we've gone from an example involving a fat lady pushing a cop off of a friend with the cop punching her in the face, and you're using an example with a guy wearing a ski mask and wielding a gun.

Nice strawman.
Nope, we have gone from one example of a cop being assaulted to another. There is no situation where a cop is under attack and you would think the one attacking the cop is in need of assistance.
I don't know...  I can think of a few....

http://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.co … sphoto.jpg
"Trouble exploded in town around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window, setting off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long, more people had joined the vandalism and looting.

By the time police arrived, a crowd of 120 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and out-of town youths who regularly came to Kent's bars. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The entire Kent police force was called to duty as well as officers from the county and surrounding communities.


The decision to call in the National Guard was made at 5:00 P.M., but the guard did not arrive into town that evening until around 10 P.M.. A large demonstration was already under way on the campus, and the campus Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) building [11] was burning


More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered its burning. Several Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze


The dispersal process began late in the morning with campus patrolman Harold Rice,[20] riding in a National Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read them an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters responded by throwing rocks, striking one campus Patrolman and forcing the Jeep to retreat."

I won't even get into the fact that this has nothing to do with what we were talking about.
2010-06-24 21:24:05
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:


Nope, we have gone from one example of a cop being assaulted to another. There is no situation where a cop is under attack and you would think the one attacking the cop is in need of assistance.
I don't know...  I can think of a few....

http://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.co … sphoto.jpg
"Trouble exploded in town around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window, setting off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long, more people had joined the vandalism and looting.

By the time police arrived, a crowd of 120 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and out-of town youths who regularly came to Kent's bars. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The entire Kent police force was called to duty as well as officers from the county and surrounding communities.


The decision to call in the National Guard was made at 5:00 P.M., but the guard did not arrive into town that evening until around 10 P.M.. A large demonstration was already under way on the campus, and the campus Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) building [11] was burning


More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered its burning. Several Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze


The dispersal process began late in the morning with campus patrolman Harold Rice,[20] riding in a National Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read them an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters responded by throwing rocks, striking one campus Patrolman and forcing the Jeep to retreat."

I won't even get into the fact that this has nothing to do with what we were talking about.
No, I want you to say it.  I want you to tell all of us that they deserved to die.  That way, we can see in black and white where your priorities are.  I figure you would appreciate this approach, since you don't like to bother with nuances of policy or ideology.
2010-06-24 22:44:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

I don't know...  I can think of a few....

http://digitalrhetor.files.wordpress.co … sphoto.jpg
"Trouble exploded in town around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window, setting off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long, more people had joined the vandalism and looting.

By the time police arrived, a crowd of 120 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and out-of town youths who regularly came to Kent's bars. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The entire Kent police force was called to duty as well as officers from the county and surrounding communities.


The decision to call in the National Guard was made at 5:00 P.M., but the guard did not arrive into town that evening until around 10 P.M.. A large demonstration was already under way on the campus, and the campus Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) building [11] was burning


More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered its burning. Several Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze


The dispersal process began late in the morning with campus patrolman Harold Rice,[20] riding in a National Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read them an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters responded by throwing rocks, striking one campus Patrolman and forcing the Jeep to retreat."

I won't even get into the fact that this has nothing to do with what we were talking about.
No, I want you to say it.  I want you to tell all of us that they deserved to die.  That way, we can see in black and white where your priorities are.  I figure you would appreciate this approach, since you don't like to bother with nuances of policy or ideology.
Sorry Turquoise, Kent State has nothing to do with a cop struggling to restrain his suspect to the point of assault on a police officer.

But since you broached the subject, I do not give a flying fuck about anyone getting killed in the process of committing violent crime, and what I posted about those events were not only criminal, they were violent. Coulda swore I have adequately made that clear over the years. I always did love the liberal media twist on Kent State however. Innocent students minding their own business gunned down for no apparent reason while singing peace songs.

Last edited by lowing (2010-06-24 22:45:57)

2010-06-24 23:08:13
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6690|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:


"Trouble exploded in town around midnight when people left a bar and began throwing beer bottles at cars and breaking downtown store fronts. In the process they broke a bank window, setting off an alarm. The news spread quickly and it resulted in several bars closing early to avoid trouble. Before long, more people had joined the vandalism and looting.

By the time police arrived, a crowd of 120 had already gathered. Some people from the crowd had already lit a small bonfire in the street. The crowd appeared to be a mix of bikers, students, and out-of town youths who regularly came to Kent's bars. A few members of the crowd began to throw beer bottles at the police, and then started yelling obscenities at them. The entire Kent police force was called to duty as well as officers from the county and surrounding communities.


The decision to call in the National Guard was made at 5:00 P.M., but the guard did not arrive into town that evening until around 10 P.M.. A large demonstration was already under way on the campus, and the campus Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) building [11] was burning


More than a thousand protesters surrounded the building and cheered its burning. Several Kent firemen and police officers were struck by rocks and other objects while attempting to extinguish the blaze


The dispersal process began late in the morning with campus patrolman Harold Rice,[20] riding in a National Guard Jeep, approaching the students to read them an order to disperse or face arrest. The protesters responded by throwing rocks, striking one campus Patrolman and forcing the Jeep to retreat."

I won't even get into the fact that this has nothing to do with what we were talking about.
No, I want you to say it.  I want you to tell all of us that they deserved to die.  That way, we can see in black and white where your priorities are.  I figure you would appreciate this approach, since you don't like to bother with nuances of policy or ideology.
Sorry Turquoise, Kent State has nothing to do with a cop struggling to restrain his suspect to the point of assault on a police officer.

But since you broached the subject, I do not give a flying fuck about anyone getting killed in the process of committing violent crime, and what I posted about those events were not only criminal, they were violent. Coulda swore I have adequately made that clear over the years. I always did love the liberal media twist on Kent State however. Innocent students minding their own business gunned down for no apparent reason while singing peace songs.
And I'm saying that a guy pointing a gun at a cop is incomparable to a woman pushing a cop.

You gave an extreme example, and I gave one too, but you took the bait just like I wanted you to.  Your logic is clearly flawed because you're more focused on punishment than on maintaining a balanced perspective on the situational nature of conflicts with the law.  This lack of perceiving nuances is what hinders your ability to critically think.
2010-06-25 03:33:30
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


No, I want you to say it.  I want you to tell all of us that they deserved to die.  That way, we can see in black and white where your priorities are.  I figure you would appreciate this approach, since you don't like to bother with nuances of policy or ideology.
Sorry Turquoise, Kent State has nothing to do with a cop struggling to restrain his suspect to the point of assault on a police officer.

But since you broached the subject, I do not give a flying fuck about anyone getting killed in the process of committing violent crime, and what I posted about those events were not only criminal, they were violent. Coulda swore I have adequately made that clear over the years. I always did love the liberal media twist on Kent State however. Innocent students minding their own business gunned down for no apparent reason while singing peace songs.
And I'm saying that a guy pointing a gun at a cop is incomparable to a woman pushing a cop.

You gave an extreme example, and I gave one too, but you took the bait just like I wanted you to.  Your logic is clearly flawed because you're more focused on punishment than on maintaining a balanced perspective on the situational nature of conflicts with the law.  This lack of perceiving nuances is what hinders your ability to critically think.
Assault is assault, it is easy to sit back like you  do and examine the video frame by frame, and decide what is right and what is wrong. The cop was assaulted, and he reacted to that assault as he should have. At that moment, he did not know anything else about the situation,.

Took the bait? What bait? you had to come out and beg me to say what you wanted to hear, not very leading there Turquoise so you can stop patting yourself on the back. I know exactly what I am saying, you did not trick me into anything.,

My example was not extreme, cops get assaulted and shot at all the time. How many Kent States have their been? Besides, I will not allow myself the luxury to "critically think" past events such as that, in real time, from the comforts of the future to pass judgement and determine right and wrong. Fact is it was a volatile situation fueled by violent criminal behavior, and those students thought they were untouchable, and they weren't.


Regardless. it still was not an example of the OP, it was a completely different issue from what we are discussing.
2010-06-25 03:43:18
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California
I don't understand why we're still debating this issue. She pushed an officer, and he defended himself.

Can somebody please tell me where the problem is with that?
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2010-06-25 03:44:14
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I don't understand why we're still debating this issue. She pushed an officer, and he defended himself.

Can somebody please tell me where the problem is with that?
liberalism
2010-06-25 03:54:15
Benzin
Member
+576|6284
If she had simply accepted the citation she could have gone to the courthouse to get the jaywalking charge dropped against her or paid the tiny little fine. It sucks, but it's still breaking the law.

As far as the punch, should have known better than to lay your hands on an officer that is already on a power trip in issuing someone a jaywalking citation...

Last edited by CapnNismo (2010-06-25 03:55:03)

2010-06-25 04:03:18
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California
So can we all conclude the two women are entirely at fault for the occurrences that ensued by refusing the citation?

/topic closed?
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2010-06-25 07:15:41
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|6934

lowing wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

I don't understand why we're still debating this issue. She pushed an officer, and he defended himself.

Can somebody please tell me where the problem is with that?
liberalism
I'm a liberal tree hugging bisexual asshole and I think the cop was right to punch her. In fact, I think he wasn't efficient enough with his asskicking. Labels are stupid.

 

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