You have not been "singled out" for a tax increase. You happen to CHOOSE to partake in an activity that is taxed at a higher rate. There is a big differance.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.ghettoperson wrote:
I love it how the smokers are blowing everything ridiculously far out of proportion because some people don't like their nasty habit.
Poll
Do you smoke?
| No, never | 56% | 56% - 60 | ||||
| Used to, but quit | 20% | 20% - 22 | ||||
| Light smoker, < a pack a day | 13% | 13% - 14 | ||||
| Moderate, a pack a day | 6% | 6% - 7 | ||||
| heavy, > a pack a day | 3% | 3% - 4 | ||||
| Total: 107 | ||||||
Oh no, I'm sure it does. However comparing it to the number of people killed by drunk drivers doesn't help matters when it's a completely irrelevant number. The fact is, any hazard to other people caused by drinking is illegal.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.ghettoperson wrote:
I love it how the smokers are blowing everything ridiculously far out of proportion because some people don't like their nasty habit.
@Hurri: I assume the post about crapping in someones face being better than smoking was a joke.
The government should not be in the business of influencing my behavior with taxation. I know that's a difficult concept for you to grasp, but freedom and coercion can not coexist.nlsme1 wrote:
You have not been "singled out" for a tax increase. You happen to CHOOSE to partake in an activity that is taxed at a higher rate. There is a big differance.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.ghettoperson wrote:
I love it how the smokers are blowing everything ridiculously far out of proportion because some people don't like their nasty habit.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
It's harder to argue for in the US than the UK, because obviously in a government funded healthcare system, there needs to be a means to cover the additional cost that smokers cause to society.
I'm not comparing the legality of it though. I'm comparing the lethality. Until people show the same anger toward alcohol as they do to smoke, I'm gonna disregard any complaints about smoking.
you are not singled out for a tax increase, ANYONE that buys tobacco products pays a high tax for them.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.ghettoperson wrote:
I love it how the smokers are blowing everything ridiculously far out of proportion because some people don't like their nasty habit.
If people would be more responsible and not drink when you're going to drive shortly thereafter then alcohol wouldn't be such a killer. Even then you can still be killed by some irresponsible idiot drunk at the wheel burning the red light and hitting you head-on.
Smoking kills you slowly, and in the meantime it stinks. I think cigars smell great though, and if you smoke one every now and then I doubt it has any health risks at all. It has prestige to it too. Your breath still stinks though, in fact, I think everybody's breath stinks, the only exception being after cleaning them and about an hour later your breath stinks again without having touched food or water.
Smoking kills you slowly, and in the meantime it stinks. I think cigars smell great though, and if you smoke one every now and then I doubt it has any health risks at all. It has prestige to it too. Your breath still stinks though, in fact, I think everybody's breath stinks, the only exception being after cleaning them and about an hour later your breath stinks again without having touched food or water.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.lowing wrote:
you are not singled out for a tax increase, ANYONE that buys tobacco products pays a high tax for them.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.ghettoperson wrote:
I love it how the smokers are blowing everything ridiculously far out of proportion because some people don't like their nasty habit.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I do not smoke because im addicted, i smoke an occasional cigar though
15 more years! 15 more years!
You already stated that this bill is not about YOUR health. This bill is about MONEY. Money that gets put into healthcare, to offset the cost you WILL eventually increase. If this bill was about YOUR health, the FDA would have a lot more control then any tax.JohnG@lt wrote:
The government should not be in the business of influencing my behavior with taxation. I know that's a difficult concept for you to grasp, but freedom and coercion can not coexist.nlsme1 wrote:
You have not been "singled out" for a tax increase. You happen to CHOOSE to partake in an activity that is taxed at a higher rate. There is a big differance.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.
Being one that loves oil so much, how can you say this, while knowing the GOVERNMENT is the main reason our gas is half the cost as the rest of the world?JohnG@lt wrote:
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.lowing wrote:
you are not singled out for a tax increase, ANYONE that buys tobacco products pays a high tax for them.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.
Yes, our gas is half that of the rest of the world because it is NOT taxed. Isn't being free from government coercion wonderful?nlsme1 wrote:
Being one that loves oil so much, how can you say this, while knowing the GOVERNMENT is the main reason our gas is half the cost as the rest of the world?JohnG@lt wrote:
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.lowing wrote:
you are not singled out for a tax increase, ANYONE that buys tobacco products pays a high tax for them.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
even if those idiotic decisions could potentially endanger the lives of others? even if those result in increased spendings for health care?JohnG@lt wrote:
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.lowing wrote:
you are not singled out for a tax increase, ANYONE that buys tobacco products pays a high tax for them.JohnG@lt wrote:
It gets very very very old, especially when I get singled out for a tax increase and all the anti-smoking nazis cream their pants.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057Shahter wrote:
even if those idiotic decisions could potentially endanger the lives of others? even if those result in increased spendings for health care?JohnG@lt wrote:
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.lowing wrote:
you are not singled out for a tax increase, ANYONE that buys tobacco products pays a high tax for them.
Objective: To measure the relation between environmental tobacco smoke, as estimated by smoking in spouses, and long term mortality from tobacco related disease.
Design: Prospective cohort study covering 39 years.
Conclusions: The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.
As far as my medical bills are concerned, health insurance companies take into account that I'm a smoker when I sign up and charge me more money to offset the increased risk of medical bills. The government has zero impact on my medical care or the costs therein.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
What health care?Shahter wrote:
even if those idiotic decisions could potentially endanger the lives of others? even if those result in increased spendings for health care?JohnG@lt wrote:
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.lowing wrote:
you are not singled out for a tax increase, ANYONE that buys tobacco products pays a high tax for them.
Also why are drugs cheaper in other countries then they are in the U.S? Cause we in this country pay for them to be. I think personal choice is personal choice and when I get a bill for a couple hundred thousand for a cancer related illness are they going to dip into all the additional money I'm paying for my smokes?
Since we have smoking and drinking in here, lets talk about fatties as well. We have tons of obese people which I'm willing to bet cost our system way more money in health care then smoking.
Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2010-06-23 08:59:38)
Okay, you must not get it. Tax money is put INTO oil. That is why our oil is half the cost. You are not "free" from government coercion here it just happens to be the opposite effect as tobacco.JohnG@lt wrote:
Yes, our gas is half that of the rest of the world because it is NOT taxed. Isn't being free from government coercion wonderful?nlsme1 wrote:
Being one that loves oil so much, how can you say this, while knowing the GOVERNMENT is the main reason our gas is half the cost as the rest of the world?JohnG@lt wrote:
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.
Healthcare is private in the US so yeah GG.nlsme1 wrote:
You already stated that this bill is not about YOUR health. This bill is about MONEY. Money that gets put into healthcare, to offset the cost you WILL eventually increase. If this bill was about YOUR health, the FDA would have a lot more control then any tax.JohnG@lt wrote:
The government should not be in the business of influencing my behavior with taxation. I know that's a difficult concept for you to grasp, but freedom and coercion can not coexist.nlsme1 wrote:
You have not been "singled out" for a tax increase. You happen to CHOOSE to partake in an activity that is taxed at a higher rate. There is a big differance.
The government is taxing it because it's an easy ass revenue stream. Banning anything is just going to create a black market for it.
The oil industry in America is not subsidized no matter how much your liberal friends might wish it to be so.nlsme1 wrote:
Okay, you must not get it. Tax money is put INTO oil. That is why our oil is half the cost. You are not "free" from government coercion here it just happens to be the opposite effect as tobacco.JohnG@lt wrote:
Yes, our gas is half that of the rest of the world because it is NOT taxed. Isn't being free from government coercion wonderful?nlsme1 wrote:
Being one that loves oil so much, how can you say this, while knowing the GOVERNMENT is the main reason our gas is half the cost as the rest of the world?
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I say the fatties cost more to our healthcare then the smokers and drinkers combined.
If I'm not mistaken, most of the smoker's tax money goes into SCHIP. So no, that tax money isn't really doing much to deal with the healthcare costs that a smoker carries (this ain't Indonesia where 18-month-olds smoke).
TBH if the teabaggers really wanted to put a dent in the pockets of the government they'd encourage a month or two-long boycott of tobacco products.
TBH if the teabaggers really wanted to put a dent in the pockets of the government they'd encourage a month or two-long boycott of tobacco products.
manufactured excuses. it's been proven countless times over that "passive" smoking does increase health risks.JohnG@lt wrote:
http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7398/1057Shahter wrote:
even if those idiotic decisions could potentially endanger the lives of others? even if those result in increased spendings for health care?JohnG@lt wrote:
Individual decisions should not be influenced by government taxation.
Objective: To measure the relation between environmental tobacco smoke, as estimated by smoking in spouses, and long term mortality from tobacco related disease.
Design: Prospective cohort study covering 39 years.
Conclusions: The results do not support a causal relation between environmental tobacco smoke and tobacco related mortality, although they do not rule out a small effect. The association between exposure to environmental tobacco smoke and coronary heart disease and lung cancer may be considerably weaker than generally believed.
they charge you extra for your personal insurance as a smoker. who's going to pay for the troubles you cause others?JohnG@lt wrote:
As far as my medical bills are concerned, health insurance companies take into account that I'm a smoker when I sign up and charge me more money to offset the increased risk of medical bills. The government has zero impact on my medical care or the costs therein.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
That said though, is the US healthcare system entirely private? As in, like American universities, they still receive some government funding?Cybargs wrote:
Healthcare is private in the US so yeah GG.nlsme1 wrote:
You already stated that this bill is not about YOUR health. This bill is about MONEY. Money that gets put into healthcare, to offset the cost you WILL eventually increase. If this bill was about YOUR health, the FDA would have a lot more control then any tax.JohnG@lt wrote:
The government should not be in the business of influencing my behavior with taxation. I know that's a difficult concept for you to grasp, but freedom and coercion can not coexist.
The government is taxing it because it's an easy ass revenue stream. Banning anything is just going to create a black market for it.
Hey n1smel, you should take note that the only person who agrees with you on this topic is a guy who believes Stalin was the best leader his country ever had.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Correction: the Federal cigarette excise tax goes to SCHIP (State Children's Health Insurance Program). State cigarette taxes can go to anything. Not just health care.
Health insurance companies are entirely private. They are the ones that pay out the medical bills.ghettoperson wrote:
That said though, is the US healthcare system entirely private? As in, like American universities, they still receive some government funding?Cybargs wrote:
Healthcare is private in the US so yeah GG.nlsme1 wrote:
You already stated that this bill is not about YOUR health. This bill is about MONEY. Money that gets put into healthcare, to offset the cost you WILL eventually increase. If this bill was about YOUR health, the FDA would have a lot more control then any tax.
The government is taxing it because it's an easy ass revenue stream. Banning anything is just going to create a black market for it.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat