eleven bravo wrote:
America saved your ass
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
leleleven bravo wrote:
America saved your ass
and we were paying it back until the 1980's... generous of you
also you didn't really give much of a shit about japan or germany up until the point where it trod on your own toes
i refuse to see america as a 'hero' in that farcical account of history. i don't really care what sorta shit you're spoonfed in your crappy school system.
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
got em coach
Tu Stultus Es
you a master
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
I noticed how easy threads go to shit once anyone mentions anything about US involvement in WW2. Im not familiar with other forums though but I assume its the same all around.
Tu Stultus Es
it's because the us education system and conception of history doesn't give a straight account
the victor writes history and the version you guys sketched out is a bit... skewed
i think it goes to shit generally because you all have this sense of patriotism that is better suited to germany under the third reich
the rest of us just don't understand why you blindly celebrate it such a crooked bunch so much
the victor writes history and the version you guys sketched out is a bit... skewed
i think it goes to shit generally because you all have this sense of patriotism that is better suited to germany under the third reich
the rest of us just don't understand why you blindly celebrate it such a crooked bunch so much
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
it really depends on the part of the country I gues. Ive had an equal share of "America #1" and "America is the devil" teachers growing up. id assume in places like texas or the bible belt youd get a lot more of what youre describing.
Tu Stultus Es
Quick question to Shater (genuinely interested) would the soviets have gone further than Germany and Alsace? I'm in two minds whether they would have gone the whole course in liberating Europe, or just re-establishing their borders. I may have missed some history here, someone fill in the blanks if i have.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Which borders are you talking about?FatherTed wrote:
Quick question to Shater (genuinely interested) would the soviets have gone further than Germany and Alsace? I'm in two minds whether they would have gone the whole course in liberating Europe, or just re-establishing their borders. I may have missed some history here, someone fill in the blanks if i have.
The former USSR countries that russia lost in the treaty of versailles., I think.
Russia lost Poland and the Baltics, which were part of the Russian Empire. The Soviets had no rights to the Baltics and Poland, they had become sovereign nations, the Baltics gained their independence in a god damn War of Independence againt German freikorps and the Bolshevik army. (1918-1920)pace51 wrote:
The former USSR countries that russia lost in the treaty of versailles., I think.
And what baltin said.BALTINS wrote:
Russia lost Poland and the Baltics, which were part of the Russian Empire. The Soviets had no rights to the Baltics and Poland, they had become sovereign nations, the Baltics gained their independence in a god damn War of Independence againt German freikorps and the Bolshevik army. (1918-1920)pace51 wrote:
The former USSR countries that russia lost in the treaty of versailles., I think.
pretty much what you posted above. i'm not concerned about where those borders happened to be, i'm just curious if Russia would have kept going into Europe or just left it at that.BALTINS wrote:
Which borders are you talking about?FatherTed wrote:
Quick question to Shater (genuinely interested) would the soviets have gone further than Germany and Alsace? I'm in two minds whether they would have gone the whole course in liberating Europe, or just re-establishing their borders. I may have missed some history here, someone fill in the blanks if i have.
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
I guess really only Stalin could answer that. I don't know what Shahter is going to say, but it's just too hypothetical. On one side they wanted to spread communism, by any means necessary, on the other, after loosing so many men, would they risk a war against the West.FatherTed wrote:
pretty much what you posted above. i'm not concerned about where those borders happened to be, i'm just curious if Russia would have kept going into Europe or just left it at that.BALTINS wrote:
Which borders are you talking about?FatherTed wrote:
Quick question to Shater (genuinely interested) would the soviets have gone further than Germany and Alsace? I'm in two minds whether they would have gone the whole course in liberating Europe, or just re-establishing their borders. I may have missed some history here, someone fill in the blanks if i have.
you know, if my grandmother had balls...FatherTed wrote:
Quick question to Shater (genuinely interested) would the soviets have gone further than Germany and Alsace? I'm in two minds whether they would have gone the whole course in liberating Europe, or just re-establishing their borders. I may have missed some history here, someone fill in the blanks if i have.
i dunno. tbh, i don't think stalin would've gone futher. if anything, i'm sure he wasn't as hardcore a communist as he's often painted. communism, while a very nice idea, is practically absurd, and stalin, an extraordinary man as he was, must've understood that. by the time the war with germany ended he had more than enough people for his propaganda machine to braiwash already.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
ty for the insight
Small hourglass island
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
Always raining and foggy
Use an umbrella
I'm genuinely curious as to what your assertion of this "straight account" is.Uzique wrote:
it's because the us education system and conception of history doesn't give a straight account
the victor writes history and the version you guys sketched out is a bit... skewed
i think it goes to shit generally because you all have this sense of patriotism that is better suited to germany under the third reich
the rest of us just don't understand why you blindly celebrate it such a crooked bunch so much
I do propose that war itself is an enemy of all mankind. In fact, I would go so far as to say the thought of war blows my mind. To many, life is much too short and precious to be fighting wars these days. Also, war cannot give life, but it can only take it away. I said war---huh, good god, y'all! What is it good for? Absolutely nothing!
hurr durr. No seriously, right after I clicked post, I thought... "Wait, wasn't the P51 manufactured too late for that?"FEOS wrote:
Someone needs to read up on the Lend-Lease Act and what the USSR got out of it.Trotskygrad wrote:
cars include trucks... Locomotives, sure. Planes? nah. IL-2 > P51 for ground attack any day.FEOS wrote:
And the trucks and the planes and the locomotives and the...
Decent summary: http://www.theeasternfront.co.uk/lendlease.htm
oh and Teds, yeah, I mean Stalin practically had ALL of Eastern Europe by the end of the war, and I don't think he wanted much more, or could get much more, without provoking the ire of the rest of the Allies.
The USSR did the majority of the fighting, dying, and winning in Europe--no question. 200 divisions > 30
However, the US and UK kept German industry to a VERY slow growth for several years, held down over 1 million german soldiers and almost the entire Luftwaffe with the CBO, defeated Italy (not huge, but something), and that little thing called the Pacific.
However, the US and UK kept German industry to a VERY slow growth for several years, held down over 1 million german soldiers and almost the entire Luftwaffe with the CBO, defeated Italy (not huge, but something), and that little thing called the Pacific.
Its a good point. Russia was beaten by Japan before, what's to say it wouldn't happen again.RAIMIUS wrote:
the Pacific.
Hey butthole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Warpace51 wrote:
Scorching and burning. Starving the Germans. Smashing them at Stalingrad. Millions of russian civilians died. Russian men and women fought in the war. Without the scorched Earth policy, Germany would have won. Russia was crippling themselves in order to cripple germany more. That deserves respect.BALTINS wrote:
Umm, remind me again what did the Soviet Union do while Germany was invading half of Europe, you know, that boring part before the Great Patriotic War begun in 1941?Shahter wrote:
"team effort"? ah, you mean that episode when the free and the brave were sitting back doing what they do best - lending money to those, who did actual fighting? - sure, it helped. thank you for reminding me of our debt, kind sir. don't worry, we intend to pay you back eventually.
Fuck.
You.
Right when androo left pace51 came along, picked up the ball and kept things going. GG mods.
Leave finland out of this. The winter war, yeah, Russia doesn't deserve respect for that. However, they deserve some respect for what they did in ww2 (Not the raping or pillaging, the part where they pushed germany back at great cost to themselves)Ultrafunkula wrote:
Hey butthole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Warpace51 wrote:
Scorching and burning. Starving the Germans. Smashing them at Stalingrad. Millions of russian civilians died. Russian men and women fought in the war. Without the scorched Earth policy, Germany would have won. Russia was crippling themselves in order to cripple germany more. That deserves respect.BALTINS wrote:
Umm, remind me again what did the Soviet Union do while Germany was invading half of Europe, you know, that boring part before the Great Patriotic War begun in 1941?
Fuck.
You.
Well by that logic the Germans deserve respect for fighting Stalins dictatorship and killing so many of the other Allies that had bombed civilians.pace51 wrote:
Leave finland out of this. The winter war, yeah, Russia doesn't deserve respect for that. However, they deserve some respect for what they did in ww2 (Not the raping or pillaging, the part where they pushed germany back at great cost to themselves)Ultrafunkula wrote:
Hey butthole. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_Warpace51 wrote:
Scorching and burning. Starving the Germans. Smashing them at Stalingrad. Millions of russian civilians died. Russian men and women fought in the war. Without the scorched Earth policy, Germany would have won. Russia was crippling themselves in order to cripple germany more. That deserves respect.
Fuck.
You.
Oh they dont deserve respect for the genocide and raping though.
On a side note:
As you can see, the Russian losses were completely justified...
Last edited by presidentsheep (2010-06-11 05:32:17)
I'd type my pc specs out all fancy again but teh mods would remove it. Again.
Weird table, we are shown as allies, our military deaths aren't shown though, because our men fought in the Latvian Waffen SS legion.presidentsheep wrote:
Well by that logic the Germans deserve respect for fighting Stalins dictatorship and killing so many of the other Allies that had bombed civilians.pace51 wrote:
Leave finland out of this. The winter war, yeah, Russia doesn't deserve respect for that. However, they deserve some respect for what they did in ww2 (Not the raping or pillaging, the part where they pushed germany back at great cost to themselves)
Oh they dont deserve respect for the genocide and raping though.
On a side note: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e … lties2.svg
As you can see, the Russian losses were completely justified...