oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6681|Πάϊ

nukchebi0 wrote:

The thing I don't understand is why Israel would initiate any tactical hostilities being fully aware (I highly doubt their government officials are that ignorant, willfully or not) of the substantial battering their appearance would take should activists be killed. People criticizing Israel like to portray the IDF as blood thirsty renegades who shoot first and ask questions later, but it doesn't seem fair or accurate to extend such a depiction to the current incident. Who had the incentive to create bloodshed? Certainly not Israel, who gets unfairly criticized with irrational prejudices and rushed judgements every time they have the audacity to wage a war with some semblance of utilizing their fully military capacity. Rather, it would be the anti-Israeli attempting to exploit this; as seen in the passionate, yet misguided fury of posters such as CameronPoe, it is a rather effective weapon in these organizations' arsenals.

I'm not necessarily supporting the Israelis, but trying to point out a logical analysis seems to indicate the "victimized" activists weren't really as innocent as certain people want them to be.
So you're suggesting that the activists on board died martyrically in order to make Israel look bad. Yes, yes... I can see how that makes more sense.
ƒ³
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

oug wrote:

So you're suggesting that the activists on board died martyrically in order to make Israel look bad. Yes, yes... I can see how that makes more sense.
why would they attack the soldiers?
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6632
cause they boarded their boat?
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

Uzique wrote:

cause they boarded their boat?
well feos said this...

"Under international law, a sovereign nation can legally enforce sanctions and blockade another with whom it is engaged in a hostile action. Hamas-governed Gaza would qualify as such, would it not?"

is that not correct?
Uzique
dasein.
+2,865|6632
reasonable application of force

legally and morally
libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual. http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6836|Canberra, AUS
and what does international law say about the blockade being stretched into international waters?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

Spark wrote:

and what does international law say about the blockade being stretched into international waters?
ask john f kennedy
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6267|eXtreme to the maX

11 Bravo wrote:

Uzique wrote:

cause they boarded their boat?
well feos said this...

"Under international law, a sovereign nation can legally enforce sanctions and blockade another with whom it is engaged in a hostile action. Hamas-governed Gaza would qualify as such, would it not?"

is that not correct?
Nations are supposed to deal with this kind of thing through the UN now, as the US did regarding the Iraq and Iran embargoes.

The Gaza invasion was years ago, the Israelis have no right blockading Gaza any more. If they want to they can try it through the UNSC.
doesnt matter what you think.  fact is their politicians come from the populace.  therefore you cannot just separate the two.
They come from the extremist part of the population and the govt has to grovel to them to stay in power, thats the problem.
It would be like the KKK and McCain forming an alliance to run the US although The Obama won the most votes.

Would the US population be properly represented in that situation?

Shas are awesome "On 2 July 2009, it was reported that Atias had called for the segregation of Israel's Arab population from Jewish Israelis, saying that achieving it was "a national duty... populations that should not mix are spreading... I don't think that it is appropriate [for them] to live together"

Crikey, he even thinks secular jews should be expelled to make room for ultra-orthodox jews
"There is a severe housing crisis among the young ultra-Orthodox couples, and in the general population. I, as an ultra-Orthodox Jew, don't think that religious Jews should have to live in the same neighborhood as secular couples, so as to avoid unnecessary friction. And since some 5,000 to 6,000 religious couples get married every year, a problem arises because they require a certain kind of community life that goes along with their lifestyle."
http://www.haaretz.com/news/housing-min … d-1.279277

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-05 06:25:05)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio
UN is a fucking pile of uselessness.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6937|Moscow, Russia

11 Bravo wrote:

UN is a fucking pile of uselessness.
i'd take a fucking pile of uselessness over a bunch of zionist extremists any day.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

Shahter wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

UN is a fucking pile of uselessness.
i'd take a fucking pile of uselessness over a bunch of zionist extremists any day.
ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6681|Πάϊ

11 Bravo wrote:

oug wrote:

So you're suggesting that the activists on board died martyrically in order to make Israel look bad. Yes, yes... I can see how that makes more sense.
why would they attack the soldiers?
Certainly not because they had a death wish. Stupidity and misjudgement of the situation would be my guess. Bear in mind that the same thing had happened before in 2008, only without the grim finalle. The fleet was ordered to stop, there were threats of boarding the boats, harrassment etc, but in the end the boats were allowed to pass. In all I think that the activists didn't expect such severity. It's like in street demonstrations - cops throw a few chemicals, they beat a few people but that's it. They don't start shooting at the crowd...

and btw JFK can go fuck himself in his Bay of Pigs. One violation of the law doesn't mean that all of them must henceforth go unpunished.

Last edited by oug (2010-06-05 06:23:45)

ƒ³
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6937|Moscow, Russia

11 Bravo wrote:

Shahter wrote:

i'd take a fucking pile of uselessness over a bunch of zionist extremists any day.
ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
most probably. does that mean we should all start looking at this probllem from zionist extremists pov?
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6681|Πάϊ

11 Bravo wrote:

Shahter wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

UN is a fucking pile of uselessness.
i'd take a fucking pile of uselessness over a bunch of zionist extremists any day.
ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
lol and if you lived in Nazi Germany your opinion would be different too. Doesn't mean you're right now does it. What a stupid argument.
ƒ³
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

oug wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Shahter wrote:

i'd take a fucking pile of uselessness over a bunch of zionist extremists any day.
ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
lol and if you lived in Nazi Germany your opinion would be different too. Doesn't mean you're right now does it. What a stupid argument.
it doesnt mean it is wrong either.  i am not justifying anything.....just saying its easy to yell from the top of the fence.  now, clean up your tone.

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-06-05 06:28:28)

Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6267|eXtreme to the maX

11 Bravo wrote:

Shahter wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

UN is a fucking pile of uselessness.
i'd take a fucking pile of uselessness over a bunch of zionist extremists any day.
ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
So, Israel gets to ignore the UN but no-one else is allowed to?

Lets start by cancelling UN recognition of Israel, since Israel has reneged on all the commitments made as part of that.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

Dilbert_X wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Shahter wrote:


i'd take a fucking pile of uselessness over a bunch of zionist extremists any day.
ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
So, Israel gets to ignore the UN but no-one else is allowed to?
no, that is not what i am saying.  my god you guys are terrible.  the bias is amazing.
oug
Calmer than you are.
+380|6681|Πάϊ

11 Bravo wrote:

oug wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:


ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
lol and if you lived in Nazi Germany your opinion would be different too. Doesn't mean you're right now does it. What a stupid argument.
it doesnt mean it is wrong either.  i am not justifying anything.....just saying its easy to yell from the top of the fence.  now, clean up your tone.
Actually it does mean it's wrong. And it's not the top of the fence, we're the ones being fucked here in case you haven't figured. Specifically there were Greek activists on these boats who were needlessly beaten and then illegally imprisoned in Israel.
ƒ³
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

oug wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

oug wrote:


lol and if you lived in Nazi Germany your opinion would be different too. Doesn't mean you're right now does it. What a stupid argument.
it doesnt mean it is wrong either.  i am not justifying anything.....just saying its easy to yell from the top of the fence.  now, clean up your tone.
Actually it does mean it's wrong. And it's not the top of the fence, we're the ones being fucked here in case you haven't figured. Specifically there were Greek activists on these boats who were needlessly beaten and then illegally imprisoned in Israel.
we're?  you know them?  are they your family?

please dude.  you are just grasping at straws to fuel your hate.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6267|eXtreme to the maX

11 Bravo wrote:

no, that is not what i am saying.  my god you guys are terrible.  the bias is amazing.
The Israelis owe the UN big time, and yet they tell them to GTFO.

Really the majority of moderate Israelis should tell their own extremists to GTFO, start working with the UN and make a lasting peace with the Palestinians and their neighbours.

Otherwise I don't see Israel being there in 50 years time.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

Dilbert_X wrote:

make a lasting peace with the Palestinians and their neighbours.
now really.  if you are going to think that will ever happen....no i know you dont think that.  you are too smart to even think that is possible.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6267|eXtreme to the maX

11 Bravo wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

make a lasting peace with the Palestinians and their neighbours.
now really.  if you are going to think that will ever happen....no i know you dont think that.  you are too smart to even think that is possible.
Of course its possible, even Hamas has offered peace - its not what the Israelis want.
Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6937|Moscow, Russia

11 Bravo wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

ya you would...but if you lived in israel id bet your opinion might be different.
So, Israel gets to ignore the UN but no-one else is allowed to?
no, that is not what i am saying.  my god you guys are terrible.  the bias is amazing.
look who's talking.
i've several jewish friends with relatives in israel. i know exactly how they feel about this. if anybody is to make a call on this it sure a hell is not them - it should be done from the "top of the fence", hence the UN. when there's a better organisation out there which is not a "pile o'uselessness" - get back to me.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5399|Cleveland, Ohio

Dilbert_X wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

make a lasting peace with the Palestinians and their neighbours.
now really.  if you are going to think that will ever happen....no i know you dont think that.  you are too smart to even think that is possible.
Of course its possible, even Hamas has offered peace - its not what the Israelis want.
well maybe.  idc if they both blow each other to hell.  not my problem.  however, as for the OP, these people should just mind their own business anyway.  activists aint gonna accomplish a fucking thing.  if anything it will just cause problems and fuel the flames.  oh wait it did.  go figure.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6267|eXtreme to the maX
Might achieve getting the blockade of 1.5million people lifted.
idc if they both blow each other to hell
There are some people who give a shit out there..

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-05 06:43:04)

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