BF2S Forums Israelis raid "Aid" Convoy

MOAB wrote:

This wasn't soley a humanitarian mission, it was a political one.

Besides that, the Israelis trucked up the supplies and Hamas turned them away as a protest. What's the point of that? It makes Hamas look all defiant, but at the same time they're rejecting the very thing they complain about not having enough of.

BBC wrote:

The Hamas government in control of Gaza has refused to accept the aid until the Israeli-Arab activists still in detention are released, and it also accused Israel of failing to deliver the full 10,000 tonnes of aid.

Israel says it is prepared to allow all the aid into Gaza, apart from cement and metal products - a sizeable proportion of the total shipment.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-03 06:27:17)

Dilbert_X wrote:

MOAB wrote:

This wasn't soley a humanitarian mission, it was a political one.

Illegal blockades, the intention of which is collective punishment, should be broken don't you think?

I bet the Warsaw ghetto would have welcomed some blockade breakers.

Besides that, the Israelis trucked up the supplies and Hamas turned them away as a protest. What's the point of that? It makes Hamas look all defiant, but at the same time they're rejecting the very thing they complain about not having enough of.

BBC wrote:

The Hamas government in control of Gaza has refused to accept the aid until the Israeli-Arab activists still in detention are released, and it also accused Israel of failing to deliver the full 10,000 tonnes of aid.

Israel says it is prepared to allow all the aid into Gaza, apart from cement and metal products - a sizeable proportion of the total shipment.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle … 226151.stm

JohnG@lt wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Its a different situation and you know it. You've got people with knives and steel bars going full out on you. They weren't holding back that much is clear. You have a paintball gun and a pistol. A paintball hurts for a few seconds, then goes away. Its a mild deterrent. If somebody started driving a knife into me and my only chance of survival was to shoot them, I would, and so would you.

It was not their only chance of survival. And better planning could have made for an entirely different situation. Not that I think they were right to engage in piracy in the first place.

Piracy? Really? Are you a member of Sinn Fein now?

JohnG@lt wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Its a different situation and you know it. You've got people with knives and steel bars going full out on you. They weren't holding back that much is clear. You have a paintball gun and a pistol. A paintball hurts for a few seconds, then goes away. Its a mild deterrent. If somebody started driving a knife into me and my only chance of survival was to shoot them, I would, and so would you.

It was not their only chance of survival. And better planning could have made for an entirely different situation. Not that I think they were right to engage in piracy in the first place.

Piracy? Really? Are you a member of Sinn Fein now?

JohnG@lt wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Piracy? Really? Are you a member of Sinn Fein now?

technically is it piracy.

Also, like Cameron said, the situation could be very different with different planning. I agree with you on the point that the soldiers were justified on firing, but I fail to see why they had to be there in the first place, on the deck, with weapons

How on earth is it piracy?

And how else would you inspect a ship and force it to change course? Should they have fired a shot over the bow instead? What happens if they ignore the shot? Do you sink the ship then? Sinking the ship would cause far more loss of life than the six people who died, no?



People are acting absolutely retarded about this whole thing. The anti-semites are coming out of the fucking woodwork and hiding behind the 'Palestinian Rights' cause. It's alluded to constantly on this forum: "Jews own the banks" "Jews got the bailouts" "Jews own our politicians". Christ sakes, these are the same fucking arguments that Hitler made! I really don't understand it at all. I had a lot of Jewish friends growing up and even dated a Jewish girl in high school for three years. Sure, they're clannish and have customs different from 'normal' people but who cares? Italians are weird too. So are the Irish and Mexicans and everyone else. Fuck, lets all gang up on the super minority because they do well for themselves in life and because they have a different religion from ours.

Shit. If anything, people should aspire to mimicing Jewish culture if anything. It's a culture that inspires hard work, doing well in school, and... get this... humility. Instead, people have embraced black culture which is the exact opposite. No wonder this country has gone to shit.

ghettoperson wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

technically is it piracy.

Also, like Cameron said, the situation could be very different with different planning. I agree with you on the point that the soldiers were justified on firing, but I fail to see why they had to be there in the first place, on the deck, with weapons

How on earth is it piracy?

And how else would you inspect a ship and force it to change course? Should they have fired a shot over the bow instead? What happens if they ignore the shot? Do you sink the ship then? Sinking the ship would cause far more loss of life than the six people who died, no?



People are acting absolutely retarded about this whole thing. The anti-semites are coming out of the fucking woodwork and hiding behind the 'Palestinian Rights' cause. It's alluded to constantly on this forum: "Jews own the banks" "Jews got the bailouts" "Jews own our politicians". Christ sakes, these are the same fucking arguments that Hitler made! I really don't understand it at all. I had a lot of Jewish friends growing up and even dated a Jewish girl in high school for three years. Sure, they're clannish and have customs different from 'normal' people but who cares? Italians are weird too. So are the Irish and Mexicans and everyone else. Fuck, lets all gang up on the super minority because they do well for themselves in life and because they have a different religion from ours.

Shit. If anything, people should aspire to mimicing Jewish culture if anything. It's a culture that inspires hard work, doing well in school, and... get this... humility. Instead, people have embraced black culture which is the exact opposite. No wonder this country has gone to shit.

And once more Godwins Law is proven. Since you can't win the argument with logic, you may as well just call everyone Hitler loving anti-semites. Honestly Galt, for someone who comes off as being smart you can be unbelievably stupid sometimes.

And FYI, no matter who it is who seizes it, capturing a boat without the proper authority is piracy.

CameronPoe wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

What else could they have done then? You've got what, fifteen people mobbing you with weapons, striking and stabbing you wherever they can. Bailing over the side for a thirty-to-fifty foot fall into cold water, on top of the injuries you already have, is not something I would try.

Regardless of what the Israeli response to this was, whether you think it right or wrong, the flotilla is just as much for blame for taking what is a blantantly provactive approach. This wasn't soley a humanitarian mission, it was a political one. They went in there with everything short of firearms like the anarchists you see at protest rallies, the ones who turn up to face off with the police, and responded exactly like they say the Israelis do, with unprovoked violence. Hypocritical much?

Besides that, the Israelis trucked up the supplies and Hamas turned them away as a protest. What's the point of that? It makes Hamas look all defiant, but at the same time they're rejecting the very thing they complain about not having enough of.

Here's a little food for thought as well.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/w … 142977.ece

Sounds less and less like a peacefully delivery the more you hear about it.

Times wrote:

The activists tied the rope used by the soldiers to a railing on the ship, in the hope of bringing down the helicopter, officials said — forcing the commander to cut the rope and leave four commandos on the deck below.

Damage the propellers on the underside of the boat? They could have come up with a plan that never involved boarding the boat. They're one of the most militarily technologically advanced nations on earth (thanks in no small part to Uncle Sam's blank cheque book).

On the 'political' charge: Of course it was and rightly so. The flotilla had to be done. The international community slaps sanction upon sanction on the likes of North Korea and Iran while turning a blind eye to Israel's flagrant abuse of international law and the humanitarian crisis in Gaza. This flotilla had to attempt to get to Gaza on principle, despite how doomed to failure the organisers surely knew it would be. Collective punishment is illegal under international law. Not allowing a completely unfettered flow of foodstuffs into Gaza is deplorable. Not allowing building materials in is just plain cruel, Israel having mown down thousands of civilian houses in their recent foray into the strip. The purpose of the flotilla was to rightly highlight the injustice in Gaza and to score a propaganda and PR victory over Israel. At the heavy cost of 9 lives it achieved that goal one hundredfold. It thankfully has ruined Israel's relationship with Turkey and there will now no longer be any possibility of an oil and water pipeline from Turkey to Israel to prop up a nation that should be sanctioned along with the likes of North Korea and Iran. The diplomatic damage has been massive. So on those counts the flotilla scored an impressive victory. There was no hope in actually discharging the cargo as planned - the goal was to win a PR victory to have pressure heaped on Israel to act less like those who dreamed up the Warsaw ghetto.

On the 'peaceful flotilla' charge: the people on board the boat resisted an invader force on their vessel in international waters. If I was on the boat I would have been like:  "Who the fuck do these guys think they are attempting to jump onto my boat with guns and tazers?". The fact they took on commandos with little more than knives and sticks is a mark of bravery, if not stupidity. You neglect to recognise that the Israelis, in attempting to board, provoked a very understandable response. The fact of the matter is there were no firearms on any of the boats.

M.O.A.B wrote:

Sounds more like a dick move tbh.

Essentially putting people into a dangerous situation with lives at stake just to show up Israel.

Last edited by CameronPoe (2010-06-03 10:57:14)

CameronPoe wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Sounds more like a dick move tbh.

Essentially putting people into a dangerous situation with lives at stake just to show up Israel.

They elected to put themselves in that situation and at heavy cost won an impressive and badly needed PR victory over Israel.

M.O.A.B wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

M.O.A.B wrote:

Sounds more like a dick move tbh.

Essentially putting people into a dangerous situation with lives at stake just to show up Israel.

They elected to put themselves in that situation and at heavy cost won an impressive and badly needed PR victory over Israel.

Israel knows just about everybody hates them regardless of what they do and it hasn't changed them in the past. And its not going to drop the blockade either. So lives lost for nothing really. The aid could have gone through and nine people would still be alive, but no, a point had to be made.

CameronPoe wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

CameronPoe wrote:

From a cargo of wheelchairs? "Watch out, he's got a cinder block!".

So why exactly wouldn't the ships divert to an Israeli port and then move their goods over a land route after they were inspected?

Because the Israelis would not have allowed in items that they have proscribed, most importantly cement.