BF2S Forums Israelis raid "Aid" Convoy

Mekstizzle wrote:

They still don't have a right to do that to them. Either it's an occupation and they have to not treat them this bad with this ultra restrictive blockade or they have to give them full freedom and stop occupying their shores/airspace and such. They can't just flout everything and then expect themselves (Israel) to be treated like a regular country, let alone a regular country that's supposed to be the shining star of democracy and freedom and liberty in the Middle East as alot of Americans like to say. There's no justification for what they're doing especially considering the country they try to come across as (actually, the country that Americans like to portray Israel as)

That's why they're very much like a rogue state right now

nlsme1 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

nlsme1 wrote:

Because you have lived in fear of rocket attacks and suicide bus bombigs as an everday citizen in your own country? How dare you try and elevate the way people view you on the backs of people you have no way of feeling what they did!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I spent all of 2004 in Baghdad and was subjected to mortar and rocket fire on a daily basis. I was also a few hundred yards away from a market when two suicide bombers with backpacks full of explosives walked in and detonated themselves. They killed a bunch of contractors in the process.

But the differance is you were a soldier. You do not know the pain they felt. Sorry, according to you, you could not empathize with them.

Mekstizzle wrote:

To be fair he's got a point, you're in a war zone thousands of miles away from home as part of a military unit. They are their homes in their own country with their families. But I suppose a loud destructive bang is a loud destructive bang

ruisleipa wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

What makes you feel powerless is what scares you.

so who's powerless? the gazans with their shitty rockets who resort to shitty tactics cos thats all they can do, or Israel and their mighty war machine? Who has the power, and who is crushing families? Hint: it's not the gazans.

(btw the fact that rthese shitty rockets you keep referring to hardly ever hit anyone and are aimed at ILLEGAL ISraelit settlements means nothing to you?)

ruisleipa wrote:

So Hamas shoots rockets BECAUSE they want Israel to kill some Palestinians? Right. Makes sense.

ruisleipa wrote:

OR Hamas shoots rockets because they're being illegally occupied, blockaded, Israel constantly commits HR violations in Palestine, has ignored UN resolutions and nothing else makes any difference. So they do what anyone could do, try and attack back using the shitty equipment they can smuggle in. Wuoldn't you do the same if you were one of them?

ruisleipa wrote:

Let's face it, often it's tit-for-tat. Should Hamas send rockets into Israel? No of course not. Should some pricks blow themselves up in markets? Of course not. Should Israel be doing all the shit they're doing? No, of course not. But who has the power to change the situation? ISrael does. It is clearly Israel's continued HR violations etc etc that are prolonging the conflict much more than anything Hamas does. I think suicide bombings are unforgiveable. I also think building illegal settlements on Palestinian land are unforgiveable. As is missiles and tanks in civilian neighbourhoods and whatever.

CameronPoe wrote:

The Irish vessel the 'Rachel Corrie' (named after an American human rights activist killed by an IDF buldozer) is en route as we speak: what will their reception be like? It left after the original flotilla. It's off Libya at the moment.

JohnG@lt wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

They still don't have a right to do that to them. Either it's an occupation and they have to not treat them this bad with this ultra restrictive blockade or they have to give them full freedom and stop occupying their shores/airspace and such. They can't just flout everything and then expect themselves (Israel) to be treated like a regular country, let alone a regular country that's supposed to be the shining star of democracy and freedom and liberty in the Middle East as alot of Americans like to say. There's no justification for what they're doing especially considering the country they try to come across as (actually, the country that Americans like to portray Israel as)

That's why they're very much like a rogue state right now

Why should they grant them freedom when undoubtedly the first thing they will do is go back to firing rockets at Israel? Why should Israel take their boot of the Gazan's collective throat when it means their own people will die?

I can empathize with the Israeli populace who were living in terror of rocket attacks and suicide bus bombings.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-06-01 14:35:05)

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spark wrote:

I'm quite stunned by Turkey's reaction. Weren't they close allies not too long ago?

They were, but Israel has a habit of shitting in the face of their allies.

nukchebi0 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Spark wrote:

I'm quite stunned by Turkey's reaction. Weren't they close allies not too long ago?

They were, but Israel has a habit of shitting in the face of their allies.

Why was a a ship carrying Western activists in an obvious attempt to publicize Israel's blockade flagged as a vessel from Turkey?

jord wrote:

Both are as bad as eachother.

Israelis and Palestinians Killed in the Current Violence

At least 6,348 Palestinians and 1,072 Israelis have been killed since September 29, 2000.

American news reports repeatedly describe Israeli military attacks against the Palestinian population as “retaliation.” However, when one looks into the chronology of death in this conflict, the reality turns out to be quite different.

Source: The number of Palestinian deaths is almost certainly an underestimate as it does not include the most recent deaths in the West Bank. B'Tselem, The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories reports that 4,908 Palestinians were killed by Israelis and 1,062 Israelis were killed by Palestinians between September 29, 2000 and December 26, 2008. (Visit their statistics page.) The UN Office for the Coordination of Humanitarian Affairs reports that at least 1,440 Palestinians were killed during the Israel’s assault on the Gaza strip, between December 27, 2008 and February 5, 2009. The Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs reports that 5 Israeli soldiers and 4 civilians were killed by Palestinians between December 27, 2008 and January 18, 2009, and 1 soldier was killed on January 27, 2009.

We apologize for how long it has been since the number of people killed has been updated! Unfortunately, B'Tselem, our main source for this information, has been extremely slow in adding the many Palestinians killed (and few Israelis killed) to their statistics page.

Date Range                                 Palestinians Killed                                     Israelis Killed
Sep 29, 2000 - Dec 26, 2008         4,908                                                     1,062

Dec 27, 2008 - Feb 5, 2009                  1,440                                                     10

Sep 29, 2000 - Feb 5, 2009                  6,348                                                      1,072

The numbers cited above include civilians and combattants killed by members of the opposing nationality (and therefore, do not include Palestinians killed by an explosive device that they set or was on their person, Israelis killed in 'friendly fire' incidents, etc.). The numbers also do not include the sizable number of Palestinians who died as a result of inability to reach medical care due to Israeli road closures, curfews, the Israeli closure of border crossing from Gaza, etc.

The figure for Palestinian deaths is extremely conservative, since it is difficult for B'Tselem to report on deaths in the Palestinian territories. The Palestine Red Crescent Society, internationally respected for its statistical rigor, reports significantly higher numbers of Palestinian deaths. We do not doubt the reliability of their data, and only use B'Tselem's more conservative numbers because they collect data on both populations.

In the past we used the statistics provided by Israel’s military for the number of Israelis killed, but they have not updated their statistics page since early in 2006. In addition, there is reason to believe that their numbers may have been somewhat inflated.
Breakdown of Deaths
                                                            Israelis                                      Palestinians
Children Killed
(More on the impact on children.)           123                                              1,487

Civilians* Killed                                            731                                            2,770 - 4,596
B'Tselem & UN OCHA
People killed in the course of a targeted killing     1                                     386 or more

People who were the object of a targeted killing     1                                     233

People killed on own land                           584 (54.5%)                               6,217 (98.9%)

People killed on others' land                  487 (45.5%)                                 71 (1.1%)
B'Tselem

* The Palestinian people do not have a military, so the usual classification of civilian is not being used. Instead B'Tselem provides data on the number of Palestinians who did not participate in hostilities, a significantly more stringent qualification than the one used to identify Israeli civilians. We do not know how many of the Israelis listed as civilians participated in the hostilities. Many settlers who illegally have taken over parts of the West Bank (and used to live in parts of the Gaza Strip) are heavily armed and there have been numerous reports of their brutal attacks on their Palestinian neighbors.
Causes of Deaths of Israeli Soldiers
2005
Committed Suicide     30
Illness     14
Accidents     26
Terror Incidents     6

Source: Israeli newspaper Ma’ariv, Oct. 10, 2005, p. 6.
Note: The paper also reported that since 1992, 459 Israeli soldiers have committed suicide.