BF2S Forums Katrina 2010

eleven bravo wrote:

i did.  im surprised you believe bush doesnt care about black people after all that nonsense defending him over the years about katrina.  i guess you flip sides on an argument when it suits your purpose.

huh? I believe Bush doesn't care about black people? what??

Reciprocity wrote:

lowing wrote:

So with the lack of response to the 1.5 month old oil disaster in the gulf, the question now must be asked. Where is the accusations of racism by the Obama administration. I mean surely if a natural disaster could be blamed on Bush as a conspiracy to kill black people and a charge of racism  levied, why couldn't a man made disaster such as this oil spill?

Indeed, if this were McCain, or especially Jeb Bush in the white house, these accusations would be flourishing.

So what is the difference, and where are the racially charged accusations that this is another attempt by the US govt. to kill all the black people?

and most noticeably missing,  Kanye West claiming, Obama "does not care about black people"?

Again what is the difference?

And what was the name of the multi-billion dollar company responsible for that Hurricane?

You're a blind capitalist, so I'm sure you agree that this is BP's mess, they can clean it up.  They can take the heat.  And besides, as a responsible, socially contributive company, BP was well aware of the risks and potential dangers of drilling.  I'm sure they were well prepared, thanks to all those windfall profits over the years, to handle any potential problems.

fantastic post.....now, how about addressing the OP?

Reciprocity wrote:

lowing wrote:

fantastic post.....now, how about addressing the OP?

I did in the first sentence.  This isn't a natural disaster, this is a BP disaster.

You seem ok with blaming the govt. for the fuckin hurricane.

I have no problem with BP being responsible, but how about the govt. take charge over this, get it fixed, then assign blame and dollars on the back end of this story AFTER it is fixed.

Still, does not address the obvious lack of racial slurring regarding this. You say Katrina was a natural disaster therefore it MUST be racism, while the oil spill is man made so there is doesn't count? Not sure I am following this train of thought.

Spark wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

While there is certainly hypocrisy on the part of people like Kanye, you have to remember that this spill was not a natural disaster.

It's generally assumed that the government is supposed to aid the public during a natural disaster.  When a company is behind a disaster, the burden for cleaning things up should primarily be on that company.

Granted, in the case of Katrina, FEMA was less at fault than Ray Nagin and the Louisiana state government.

the fact that it is a man made disaster, that is obviously beyond the abilites of the private company to deal with, the govt., should take over responsibility for stopping it, then worry about charging the private company later. Or do you suggest it continues until BP pulls their head out?

This is very different. The specialised equipment needed to prepare/mitigate Katrina was all government owned. All the special equipment needed to fix this is owned by BP.

Actually, a lot of the dispersant has been sprayed by govt aircraft, a la aerial spraying of forest fires.

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

While there is certainly hypocrisy on the part of people like Kanye, you have to remember that this spill was not a natural disaster.

It's generally assumed that the government is supposed to aid the public during a natural disaster.  When a company is behind a disaster, the burden for cleaning things up should primarily be on that company.

Granted, in the case of Katrina, FEMA was less at fault than Ray Nagin and the Louisiana state government.

the fact that it is a man made disaster, that is obviously beyond the abilites of the private company to deal with, the govt., should take over responsibility for stopping it, then worry about charging the private company later. Or do you suggest it continues until BP pulls their head out?

So you want the government out of something like healthcare, yet you wish for them to take over cleanup from a private disaster. One with wich the government has ZERO experiance in.

Reciprocity wrote:

lowing wrote:

You seem ok with blaming the govt. for the fuckin hurricane.

Blame the government for the "fuckin hurricane"?  Why?  Hurricane's a hurricane.  It may seem unfair, but, in natural disasters, yes, it's the government's job to clean up the mess.  There's no one else.  You seem to be confusing the terms blame and mistake.  was the government to blame for Katrina?  mostly, no.  Did they make a mistake in their response?  yes. 

I have no problem with BP being responsible, but how about the govt. take charge over this, get it fixed, then assign blame and dollars on the back end of this story AFTER it is fixed.

And the government would know better than BP how to fix this kind of disaster.  Cleaning up oil spills is an integral part of extracting oil.  They know how to do this.  And if they don't, Louisiana can choke on crude for all I care.  What is the upside to the government taking charge?  What would the government add?       

Still, does not address the obvious lack of racial slurring regarding this. You say Katrina was a natural disaster therefore it MUST be racism, while the oil spill is man made so there is doesn't count? Not sure I am following this train of thought.

Seeing as kanye West is my official spokesperson,  I should respond to this.  Katrina, itself, wasn't racist.  It had black friends.  I've seen pictures.  However, when the flooding destroys the predominantly black, low-lying slums of New Orleans and Bush and brownie do nothing and then commend each other for it, it can come off as sorta racist.  Personally, I don't think bush and co. we're really racist,  I don't think they cared enough to be considered racist.  Also, oil spills aren't racist, as wreckognize pointed out two pages ago, they're black, they can't be racist.

lowing, you're conservative and have almost no sense of humor.  still, I think you're being fatuous, or trying to be fatuous.

1. why is it the federal govts. job t oclean up a states mess, even after relief money is donated by the feds, it is still the states job, and even the cities job. It certainly is not the federal govts job.

2. Was the federal govt to blame for the oil spill mostly no, are they continuously making a mistake in its response? yes.....where is the racism charges?

3. No it was not Bushs job to do something, BEFORE it was the cities job and then the states job, they under-reacted. Not Bush.

I think John Stewart covered this. About how they defended Bush's screw ups and now, those screw ups are treated as teh low water mark for PBO.
"Whether it's his Katrina or Afghanistan, "it's like no matter what happens during the Obama administration, there's the perfect Bush f--k up for the occasion."

But the hypocrisy lay in the fact that the same incidents conservatives used to defend and champion Bush's 8 years in office are now being used as the "low-water mark" for Obama. Stewart went on to compare them to shady used car salesmen, touting their product until some sucker takes it off their hands, upon which it becomes "your piece of sh-t now."

Closing it out, Stewart joked: "You know, for these conservative pundits, this may be their 'choke on a pretzel' moment."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/05/1 … t_46959194



At least PBO landed his plane in Louisana and took a walk on the beach. Bush did a lame ass fly by and that's why he got the racist award for not caring. And if you look it as a GOP take over, Katrina enable the Bush and the GOP to displace/bus black democratic voters all over the country, the rebuild was slow to nonexistant and the result was that GOP Jindal won the election, hmmmmm.

And while the hurricane really hit poor districts of New Orleans, this oil disaster is hitting the fishers who work for a living. May be people need to look at the GOP great brown hope Jindal and his ineptness in all of this. If you want to really look at this a race thing I guess you could spin it as a bipartisan racial attack by Jindal and PBO on the poor white working folk of Liousiana. OR you could just blame the company and demand the US govt set off a nuke to stop the oil just like the Russians did. OR better yet take the head putzes from BP out into the gulf, tie an anchor around their leg, put a wrench in their hand and tell them not to come back up until they stop the leak. IMO that would be closer to the Chinese state capitalist solution and out of all the wacky ideas out there I would rather see that, hell, make it pay per view, strap cameras to them, and take bets on how deep they get before expiring. Then give the proceeds to the families and businesses who up shit creek right now.

harmor do you ever have any original thoughts?  all you do is parrot.

FEOS wrote:

Spark wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Actually, a lot of the dispersant has been sprayed by govt aircraft, a la aerial spraying of forest fires.

I was more thinking about plugging the leak.

Not really any equipment to prepare/mitigate a hurricane on either the private or public front...

Plenty of equipment to prepare/mitigate a hurricanes EFFECTS.

Maybe not plenty, but there are steps that can be taken.

nlsme1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

nlsme1 wrote:

So you want the government out of something like health care, yet you wish for them to take over cleanup from a private disaster. One with wich the government has ZERO experience in.

first, the govt. has no experience managing health care, I give you medicare as indisputable proof of that.

and second I never really thought of the entire gulf coast covered in oil a "private disaster"

third, I would agree with any argument that put cleaning this up first, and assigning blame second.

Having a system like medicare IS experience in health care. Where IS the experience in cleaning up a disaster in private industry ( a private disaster).

well yeah I guess it is, technically, but I was going along the lines of having experience in doing something correctly  and efficiently. But yeah if you want to count fucking up 100 miles an hours and butchering a program  as experience, sure, the US govt. have got plenty of it in healthcare.

nlsme1 wrote:

To argue a point, you must take what was said in context. You were saying the government should clean up BP's mess. How much experience do they have there? And I try not to say something is a  "fact" when it is "technically" not true.

First when the oil spill covers the entire gulf coast region it is more than BP's mess. They can pay for the damage, but it is most definitely everyones mess.

Second how much experience does BP have cleaning up this mess.

Third, I am speaking of bring the entire arsenal of US resources to bear in order to get this leak stopped, instead of photo ops of Obama standing on a beach shaking hands.

nlsme1 wrote:

lowing wrote:

nlsme1 wrote:

To argue a point, you must take what was said in context. You were saying the government should clean up BP's mess. How much experience do they have there? And I try not to say something is a  "fact" when it is "technically" not true.

First when the oil spill covers the entire gulf coast region it is more than BP's mess. They can pay for the damage, but it is most definitely everyones mess.

Second how much experience does BP have cleaning up this mess.

Third, I am speaking of bring the entire arsenal of US resources to bear in order to get this leak stopped, instead of photo ops of Obama standing on a beach shaking hands.

First, the arguement could be made that healthcare is "everyones" problem just as easily, yet you don't want govt. there.

Second, a lot more then the government.

Third, what arsenol do we have for this?

Fourth, (and here is the kicker) do you know how easy it would be, for BP to then say."you took over. You took longer then we would have, and we are no longer responsible for the cost associated with it. You let 30 million gallons spill AFTER you tok over"

30,000,000 gallons * $1,000 gallons=30,000,000,000

Do you really want to let BP off the hook from those kinds of fines?

No your health is YOUR problem, and my health is MY problem, I do not share in your problems.

Really? When did BP dump oil in the gulf and pollute the coast line before?

The US govt. has unlimited resources in manpower, what is needed the US govt. can get. BP is not an authority, the US govt. is.

BP, and here is the kicker, has already lost in the court the counts, the court of public opinion. They will pay for this, even at the expense of its own existence.