nicely put.Reciprocity wrote:
I'm not really an "oil company hater". I hate that we live in a world where oil companies need to exist. I hate that our entire world economy is based on a finite, poisonous liquid. I hate that it gives animals in the middle east, africa, south america and russia, money and power they shouldn't have.
Why hate oil companies? They'll cut corners, buy politicians, destroy whatever they can to get what we need so they can get what they want. oil is a filthy, degenarate business. Hating the companies is pointless, they're all fucking scum because that's their nature.
Well, if we're being consistent about this, then if you're in favor of smaller government, what have you done to achieve this? Are you running for the Libertarian ticket or campaigning for at least one of their candidates?JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, you live in the right state for it so what's stopping you from running off into the forest, going off the grid and joining a hippie commune?Reciprocity wrote:
I'm not really an "oil company hater". I hate that we live in a world where oil companies need to exist. I hate that our entire world economy is based on a finite, poisonous liquid. I hate that it gives animals in the middle east, africa, south america and russia, money and power they shouldn't have.galt wrote:
Sure they should. I just dislike the fact that all the oil company haters feel somehow vindicated for their disdain now. Bunch of hypocritical morons.
Why hate oil companies? They'll cut corners, buy politicians, destroy whatever they can to get what we need so they can get what they want. oil is a filthy, degenarate business. Hating the companies is pointless, they're all fucking scum because that's their nature.
We can go back and forth all day like this, but it doesn't mean anything or go anywhere.
Just because you don't like our oil dependency doesn't mean you have to go to the extreme to protest it. That's like saying all Muslims who disapprove of drawing Mohammed should threaten cartoonists over their depictions.
Last edited by Turquoise (2010-05-23 22:42:36)
I don't like our oil dependency and I am doing something about it. R&D for green energy is my goal, remember? I just find it amusing that lefties have such an intense hatred for oil and oil products and yet use them on a daily basis. I wonder if that loathing transfers over onto themselves or if they just rationalize it away. I guess without the ability to rationalize their own decisions there wouldn't be much of a Left left after all the suicides.Turquoise wrote:
Well, if we're being consistent about this, then if you're in favor of smaller government, what have you done to achieve this? Are you running for the Libertarian ticket or campaigning for at least one of their candidates?JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, you live in the right state for it so what's stopping you from running off into the forest, going off the grid and joining a hippie commune?Reciprocity wrote:
I'm not really an "oil company hater". I hate that we live in a world where oil companies need to exist. I hate that our entire world economy is based on a finite, poisonous liquid. I hate that it gives animals in the middle east, africa, south america and russia, money and power they shouldn't have.
Why hate oil companies? They'll cut corners, buy politicians, destroy whatever they can to get what we need so they can get what they want. oil is a filthy, degenarate business. Hating the companies is pointless, they're all fucking scum because that's their nature.
We can go back and forth all day like this, but it doesn't mean anything or go anywhere.
Just because you don't like our oil dependency doesn't mean you have to go to the extreme to protest it. That's like saying all Muslims who disapprove drawing Mohammed should threaten cartoonists over their depictions.
Now, I've already explained that I plan on helping the situation. What exactly are you doing to correct all the things you hate aside from writing about them here? I know it's part of Stuff White People Like to cause a big stink about an issue, have someone else make an attempt to fix it and then feel good about themselves afterwards while singing Cumbaya for having an impact...
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-05-23 22:49:00)
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
The same argument could made against Wall Street for their disdain of people being propped up by government funds via welfare and such, yet, they accepted far more than any welfare program to stay afloat during this recent crash.JohnG@lt wrote:
I don't like our oil dependency and I am doing something about it. R&D for green energy is my goal, remember? I just find it amusing that lefties have such an intense hatred for oil and oil products and yet use them on a daily basis. I wonder if that loathing transfers over onto themselves or if they just rationalize it away. I guess without the ability to rationalize their own decisions there wouldn't be much of a Left left after all the suicides.Turquoise wrote:
Well, if we're being consistent about this, then if you're in favor of smaller government, what have you done to achieve this? Are you running for the Libertarian ticket or campaigning for at least one of their candidates?JohnG@lt wrote:
Well, you live in the right state for it so what's stopping you from running off into the forest, going off the grid and joining a hippie commune?
We can go back and forth all day like this, but it doesn't mean anything or go anywhere.
Just because you don't like our oil dependency doesn't mean you have to go to the extreme to protest it. That's like saying all Muslims who disapprove drawing Mohammed should threaten cartoonists over their depictions.
Hypocrisy isn't exclusive to any one side. It's human nature for a certain amount of that to be present wherever you look.
To be fair, I'm not a fan of the SUV-driving "environmentalists" either. It's just that you seem to be taking an extreme position on this.
Of course I am. I think 99% of the people on this planet are hypocritical morons. The other 1% are libertariansTurquoise wrote:
The same argument could made against Wall Street for their disdain of people being propped up by government funds via welfare and such, yet, they accepted far more than any welfare program to stay afloat during this recent crash.JohnG@lt wrote:
I don't like our oil dependency and I am doing something about it. R&D for green energy is my goal, remember? I just find it amusing that lefties have such an intense hatred for oil and oil products and yet use them on a daily basis. I wonder if that loathing transfers over onto themselves or if they just rationalize it away. I guess without the ability to rationalize their own decisions there wouldn't be much of a Left left after all the suicides.Turquoise wrote:
Well, if we're being consistent about this, then if you're in favor of smaller government, what have you done to achieve this? Are you running for the Libertarian ticket or campaigning for at least one of their candidates?
We can go back and forth all day like this, but it doesn't mean anything or go anywhere.
Just because you don't like our oil dependency doesn't mean you have to go to the extreme to protest it. That's like saying all Muslims who disapprove drawing Mohammed should threaten cartoonists over their depictions.
Hypocrisy isn't exclusive to any one side. It's human nature for a certain amount of that to be present wherever you look.
To be fair, I'm not a fan of the SUV-driving "environmentalists" either. It's just that you seem to be taking an extreme position on this.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
leaving the civilization we've created wouldn't solve anything. no, I buy my gas like everyone else. I'm a cog, like you, like any other "civilized" person. I wonder what could have been for this planet, for us, the clever monkeys, scuffling along the surface. Of course, I see and appreciate the benefits of how we live, but that's only because I'm a little part in the big machine, like you.
Well, there's always apathy to go by. That is my general orientation. I merely use this forum to sate my hobby of debate, but I hold no delusions of being able to change the situation or that most people in power would even try in the first place.JohnG@lt wrote:
Now, I've already explained that I plan on helping the situation. What exactly are you doing to correct all the things you hate aside from writing about them here? I know it's part of Stuff White People Like to cause a big stink about an issue, have someone else make an attempt to fix it and then feel good about themselves afterwards while singing Cumbaya for having an impact...
I just like to see how people defend their positions, which is why I challenge them. It's nothing personal.
By the way, that is a good book/website. Lander definitely has an eye for ironic humor.
The entire world we live in is built upon the burning of hydrocarbons and coal. Until we either convert to nuclear or wait for the next big thing to come along you just have to accept the fact that a thing as simple as turning on a light bulb when it gets dark is dependent on steam turbines which require things to burn to heat the water into steam to turn them. There's no shame involved, it's the world you were born into. We all like our comforts, we just have to be willing to accept the cost for them.Reciprocity wrote:
leaving the civilization we've created wouldn't solve anything. no, I buy my gas like everyone else. I'm a cog, like you, like any other "civilized" person. I wonder what could have been for this planet, for us, the clever monkeys, scuffling along the surface. Of course, I see and appreciate the benefits of how we live, but that's only because I'm a little part in the big machine, like you.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
He does do a good job. South Park does a good job with it too.Turquoise wrote:
Well, there's always apathy to go by. That is my general orientation. I merely use this forum to sate my hobby of debate, but I hold no delusions of being able to change the situation or that most people in power would even try in the first place.JohnG@lt wrote:
Now, I've already explained that I plan on helping the situation. What exactly are you doing to correct all the things you hate aside from writing about them here? I know it's part of Stuff White People Like to cause a big stink about an issue, have someone else make an attempt to fix it and then feel good about themselves afterwards while singing Cumbaya for having an impact...
I just like to see how people defend their positions, which is why I challenge them. It's nothing personal.
By the way, that is a good book/website. Lander definitely has an eye for ironic humor.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
I accept the cost like everyone else; doesn't mean I forget the cost.
I dunno john, you're not being broad and assumptive enough. Could you please try labelling with a broader brush?JohnG@lt wrote:
lefties have such an intense hatred for oil and oil products
Luckily BP was a big contributor to Obama.Reciprocity wrote:
...Why hate oil companies? They'll cut corners, buy politicians, ...
yeah, less than .01% of what he took in during his campaign. it's a huge conspiracy.Harmor wrote:
Luckily BP was a big contributor to Obama.Reciprocity wrote:
...Why hate oil companies? They'll cut corners, buy politicians, ...
Does $70k even get you a handshake?
plus, how much did they give mccain?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Except its the self-styled libertarians who are the most hypocritical of the lot.JohnG@lt wrote:
Of course I am. I think 99% of the people on this planet are hypocritical morons. The other 1% are libertarians
Fuck Israel
pure (social and economic) libertarians seem a dying breed unfortunately.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Says the man who wants to kill 90% of the Earths population, is more than willing to control every aspect of other peoples lives in order to force them to conform. You would be Stalin if you could somehow find your way into power. I feel sorry for you, it must be a terrible burden carrying around so much hate in your heart.Dilbert_X wrote:
Except its the self-styled libertarians who are the most hypocritical of the lot.JohnG@lt wrote:
Of course I am. I think 99% of the people on this planet are hypocritical morons. The other 1% are libertarians
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Frederick Bastiat
Not as much as the Bamster... Oh he was also tapping BP guys for staff (Steven Koonin).... awesome!Spark wrote:
plus, how much did they give mccain?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Interesting article/blog, regarding the (apparently awful) booming practices currently in use. Well there's plenty of swear words in it to keep you interested.
I've been in Oil and Gas Production (all upstream) and Exploration for over 30 years. My salary is a little bigger than God's, which is okay because I'm more useful than he is. I'm a better cook than God is too, but lets get back on subject here. Booming School. Not only is Oil Spill Booming a large industry in the USA, teaching Oil Spill Booming is a large industry in the USA. Most of BP's production and pipeline employees in the USA have attended at least one booming school. Many have attended two or three. Most oil and gas production employees in the USA have attended booming school. Some of us have attended really good, really extensive, week or two-week booming schools. BP's production employees have attended the best booming schools. I know this. I've seen them there.
BP's drilling folks have mostly not attended booming school. They're sometimes sent to booming school, but they fuck off in the bar and their bosses sign off on that being okay. Because for Drilling Hands, booming is for pussies. This is a generalization. Not all drilling hands think that, but most of them do and I guarantee BP's drilling executives think that booming is for pussies -- and that's if they think about booming at all or even know what it is. That's not so shocking. In the major oil companies, there are likely a few drilling executives that don't even know what drilling is. I'm not kidding. There's good BP drilling people who would, in private, back me up on that.
Fucking Nomenclature
Since this is your first day of DKos Booming school, you HAVE to fight lets go over some important definitions and oilfield grammar. Rope is not rope. It is fucking rope. All of it. Every yard of rope is fucking rope. Every section of boom is fucking boom. An anchor block is not an anchor block. It is a fucking anchor block. You get the idea. Later, when you're accustomed to all of this, you can substitute "goddamed", "motherfucking", "piece-of-shit-c*nt" (never understood that one myself) or "cocksucking" for fucking. But for now, it's all fucking.
Fucking Boom
Generally, boom is long and bright bright orange or yellow. It is not bright bright orange or yellow so you can see it, dear fledgling boomer, but so Governors, Senators, Presidents and The Media can see it. It has a round floaty part that floats, and a flat "skirt" that sinks. A RULE: the floaty part never floats high enough and the skirt never rides low enough. Some oil will ALWAYS go over the boom and some will ALWAYS go under it. Our task is to MINIMIZE both! We do that by fucking proper fucking booming. Here. This picture teaches you almost 100% of what you'll learn in DKos Booming School, about fucking proper fucking booming:
I lost my one copy of Photoshop, had to learn Gimp, and so the quality is sorta piece-of-shit-c*nt, but you get the idea. It's fucking obvious. Boom is not meant to contain or catch oil. Boom is meant to divert oil. Boom must always be at an angle to the prevailing wind-wave action or surface current. Boom, at this angle, must always be layered in a fucking overlapped sort-of way with another string of boom. Boom must always divert oil to a catch basin or other container, from where it can be REMOVED FROM THE FUCKING AREA. Looks kinda involved, doesn't it? It is. But if fucking proper fucking booming is done properly, you can remove most, by far most of the oil from a shoreline and you can do it day after day, week after week, month after month. You can prevent most, by far most of the shoreline from ever being touched by more than a few transient molecules of oil. Done fucking properly, a week after the oil stops coming ashore, no one, man nor beast, can ever tell there has been oil anywhere near that shoreline.
In practice, there's a reason the best booming schools last weeks. Different types of shoreline, different shapes, require different configurations. Your numerous anchor points (for this spill those would be 1-yard cement blocks with tie-off buoys) need to be chosen so the boom-tenders (you) can adjust the ropes, slanting the booms this way and that to account for changes in wind and current. Booms are tended 24/7, by the way. BUT... just having learned what you've learned here today, DKos Boomer, you know enough of the CONCEPT to figure it out. You get it. You could go out there and watch how the ping-pong balls (your test-oil) glide along the boom. You could see where they miss the catch basins and you could adjust and re-configure and you could perform fucking proper fucking booming. By the third day of actual booming, no one on this planet would be better than you. So if you understand it, and all these production employees understand it (we're talking tens of thousands of people here), then why is most or all of the booming along the Gulf... being done wrong?
Great Fucking Question, DKos Boomer!
1. The booming is being run by a company that concentrates on drilling and booming is for pussies. Production employees were not invited because they would just cause trouble. This is a drilling operation so just fuck off.
2. There's not enough boom, rope nor anchor on this planet to properly boom the Northern Gulf of Mexico. There should be! It's not that much an expense! Really! It's not! They said they were ready! Having enough materials to perform fucking proper fucking booming, IS part of being ready! THEY'RE NOT READY! ARE THEY?
3. Governors, Senators, Presidents and most of all the Piece-Of-Shit-C*nt Media don't know what fucking proper fucking booming LOOKS LIKE! So you can just lay a single line of neon-glo-orange boom out parallel to the shore, for miles, with anchor points every quarter-mile to where a good part of it washes up onto the shore like a huge, dead, orange nightcrawler... and they won't know the difference! Where it manages to stay off the bank, a little two-foot chop you would let your kids frolic in will send all the oil either over or under it! ALL THE OIL! ON THE SHORE! IN THE REEDS! ON THE BEACH! IN THE NESTS! OIL! So what! It's not gonna make CNN send a single correspondent to booming school, is it?
Now the Coast Guard? They know booming. They know what fucking proper fucking booming looks like. Coast Guard commandant, Adm. Thad Allen should be fired. Today. Now. This minute. Before he can give another press conference echoing what BP said not five minutes before him. Then he should be fucking court-martialed and fucking sent to prison before BP can give him a goddamned fucking job. He's a shameless piece of shit. And so is President Obama if he can't see that. People who know me and how I've supported our President through thick and thin, know how hard it was for me to write that. I'm literally on the verge of tears, right this second. But I won't erase it. There it is.
HERE it is.
Ouch.I couldn't find any pics of fucking proper fucking booming from along the Gulf, because there aren't any.
Oh, and by the way, BP!
There are days if not weeks worth of video of each of those 3 leaks. Yet you show us 10 seconds of the smallest one, the one you plugged, your only success.
Now you're going to try a Junk Shot and/or a Top Kill. You say you know either of these could make the leaks worse, possibly much worse. Well, show us the goddam leaks before and after. We have a right to know if you made it worse and we're tired of taking your word for anything.
Just try to maintain that it's YOUR footage and you don't have to show us.
Just try that. In front of Congress.
It's OUR seafloor! Not Yours! Our footage! Not Yours!
UPDATE: All media contacts, please consult actual booming experts. There are about a hundred. If you can't find one in time for your show tonight, you're a fucking bad journalist. Now, finding one that's not afraid of BP? That might be a challenge, but you're fucking up to it.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/5/11/11558/1890
twice as much (oil companies)Spark wrote:
plus, how much did they give mccain?
http://climateprogress.org/2010/05/25/p … ributions/Republican candidate Sen. John McCain received more than twice as much money from the oil and gas industries as Obama: McCain collected $2.4 million; Obama, $898,000.
Moreover, as Time’s Michael Scherer noted, the Politico article on BP’s donations “fails to provide the context readers need” considering Obama ran for president, and the numbers aren’t adjusted for “campaign inflation.” Even right-wing blogger Ed Morrissey warned the GOP not to “overpay their hand on this issue.”
This was a Think Progress repost. Media Matters further notes:
Like clockwork, media outlets seized on Palin’s accusation and cited Center for Responsive Politics’ calculation that Obama had received $71,051 in BP-linked contributions for his presidential campaign. Only problem is, contrary to Palin’s and the media’s suggestions, all of that money came from BP employees, not BP the company. A spokesman for the Center for Responsive Politics confirmed Monday that “the $71,051 that Obama received during the 2008 election cycle was entirely from BP employees.” The CRP spokesman also stated that “Obama did not accept contributions from political action committees, so none of this money is from BP’s PAC. And corporations themselves are prohibited from donating directly to candidates from their corporate treasuries.”
Why is this an important distinction? Because Obama raised far more money than any other candidate ever has, therefore, it is completely unsurprising that Obama also received the most amount of money from BP employees. Moreover, BP-linked contributions to Obama’s campaign are a drop in the bucket when compared to Obama’s total campaign haul. In addition to the $71,051 Obama received from BP-linked contributors in 2008, Obama’s 2004 Senate campaign raised $6,000 from BP-linked sources, bringing Obama’s total BP-related campaign contributions to 77,051. This represents less than .01 percent of the nearly $800 million that Obama raised for his campaigns.
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