BF2S Forums Empathy

lowing wrote:

Shahter wrote:

lowing wrote:

No it is not. those that do not are police, firefighters, EMT's, nurses, doctors, the good samaritan that pulls a kid out of a wrecked car before it explodes etc....for everyone else, empathy is cheap talk. Yeah that includes tax payers

"everyone else"? wow. how do you know that?

because action speaks louder than words. Hense my point. Who gives a flying fuck how ya FEEL? What you do about it is the difference.

I suppose in your eyes, as long as ya FEEL bad, then you are worthy. Feel bad and pay your taxes that is.

There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy (c).

lowing wins this one, sorry Euros.

Pug wrote:

lowing wrote:

Pug wrote:

You know, today I thought about giving $100 to a charity.  But I didn't do it.  But I'm a better person now because I thought about giving away that $100.  So I treated myself to a hooker.

I don't need to give away 100 dollars. I pay taxes, what more proof do you need that I care?

As per usual, my sarcasm might be ill advised.

1) Charities exist because there is a shortfall within the system.  Basic difference between the parties: Republicans believe that charities will be funded by the public according to need, Democrats believe that charitable giving should be lessened and the main funding should be from tax.  The GOP believes less money will end up with the organization...because due to inefficiency, less than 1/3 of every $1 collected goes where directed...and if a charity isn't funded, well too bad.  The Dems believe many charities will be overlooked if there is no government oversight (in other words, the government knows how to spend the money better than the populance).

2) The increased administrative burdens of adding every charitiable organization to the government's tit would be an amazing management problem.  Therefore, non-profit organizations exist to make up the difference.  Knowing this, the government set up special rules in order to allow these organizations to exist and fund themselves without being a taxable entity.  Therefore, very little governement funding is provided to non-profits.

3) Everyone pays taxes.  Very little of your generous contribution to the nations' coffers via taxation is going to charity.  Most non-profits receive less than 10% (or any) funding from the government.  Therefore, your taxes are not considered a charitable donation.

4) If charities are not funded, numerous problems would result which may or may not become areas the government would step in to help out.  The problem does not go away if it isn't addressed.  Charities try to address these problems.

The purpose of my original comment "thinking about giving money makes me a better person" is to prove a point.  Giving to charity doesn't make you a better person. 

It helps in areas which aren't being supported by a government program. 

No one is forcing you to give money to a charity.  But it's important to understand why non-profits charities exist, and the benefits of having them exist outweigh the other options.

I guess my sarcasm went undetected by you, I agree with you and was being absurd based on varegg's decree that he pays taxes therefore he is empathetic. (Oh and you are not even though you pay taxes as well)

JohnG@lt wrote:

lowing wins this one, sorry Euros.

how so? by ignoring everything said to him and keeping calling everybody a liar and money chaser? okay, let's see:

lowing's an ignorant prick.
have i just "won"?

Marlo Stanfield wrote:

Shahter wrote:

have i just "won"?

You would have if you didn't live in Russia.

darn...
ah, i know. i lied to you all, i live in usa actually, i'm a nigga, unemployed, a crack addict, and i'm suckin teh lifeblood out of this land of opportunity. oh, almost forgot:

lowing is an ignorant prick.

see? the above is just about as on-topic as most of lowing's rants. so, are we all set now? have i won?

Marlo Stanfield wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Marlo Stanfield wrote:

You would have if you didn't live in Russia.

darn...
ah, i know. i lied to you all, i live in usa actually, i'm a nigga, unemployed, a crack addict, and i'm suckin teh lifeblood out of this land of opportunity. oh, almost forgot:

lowing is an ignorant prick.

see? the above is just about as on-topic as most of lowing's rants. so, are we all set now? have i won?

No, you've been reported for racism.

there's no pleasing you. oh, well...

LOL you argued 3 pages or something ago that you pay your taxes through empathy.

Jaekus wrote:

Varegg wrote:

^^ All this have been explained over and over again and yet you fail to understand the nuances ...

This happens with every discussion lowing enters. I wouldn't bother.

qftae

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

telling me I do not know what empathy is, does not bolster your argument that paying taxes is an example of it. It is not.

You clearly doesn't what empathy is and your own statements in this thread speaks for itself ... and I didn't say paying taxes equals empathy, it was just one example of how it can be ...

lowing wrote:

Great so I have engaged in the only person that works but doesa not care about money, making more of it, or getting promoted to better your quality of life...Do you believe your own bullshit i wonder? Wanting a decent quality of life for you and your family does not equate to "obsessing with money". This is another one of your bullshit excuses as to how capitalists ( which you are one of) are evil.

Never said I don't care about money, never said I wouldn't like to make more, never said I didn't wan't to improve my life economically ... I said however that I don't care more about money than I care about other people ... learn to read ... and comprehend ...

lowing wrote:

Hmmmm, if there is more like you than why I am having to give up more of MY money everyday? Or have you joined that merry band of liberals that doesn't need money, as long as you are able to "collect" it from someone else??

I don't collect money from anyone else but my employer ...

lowing wrote:

Do I need toshow you again where you said you were empathetic and you used the fact that you pay a great deal of taxes, as your shining AND ONLY example as to why? We don't need to go through that again do we?

It was one example ... I can give you hundreds more but still you wouldn't understand it so what's the point?

lowing wrote:

Collect money? How come you didn't give yours up? you don't need it remember? I GAVE money, I didn't collect it form everyone else. See the difference?

I did both ... how come you asumed I didn't donate anything myself?

Empathy is feeling someone elses pain, understanding it, paying taxes does not qualify. not even as one example. Sorry. YOU clearly do not know what empathy is Varegg, becacuse your tax code shouldn't have even been brought up.

Ya ya did, you said you were content and do not care about earning more or getting promoted or improving your financial situation. YOU SAID, you pay taxes and this is proof you are empathetic, while all other capitalists ( except for a few) are hearltess and have no conscience, even though they pay taxes as well. I can only comprehend what you write, and so far you are very clear in what you say, until it is challenged, then it gets misty.

On the topic of Haiti, again that is what you said, you collected money and blankets etc...While I said I gave money. Again, can only address what you say Varegg.

If you can give hundreds more of examples, I would think you would be able to come up with a better example than your tax code as proof of your empathy. Even still, all it will be is 100 more examples of cheap talk, as that is what empathy is, and all it is.

I didn't assume, I asked and you told me you collected, you didn't say shit about giving. Again I comprehend just fine, do you know what it is you sre writing?

Anyway, as i have stated before, empathy is nothing but cheap talk, it something you FEEL, not something you DO. You may ACT on your empathy, and be driven to giving to charities, or work in a soup kitchen or become a rescue swimmer etc...but that itself is not empathy. This is my point, nearly all of us will claim empathy, but hardy any of us will actually act on it with any regularity. THis is why I call empathy cheap talk, bucause without action, it means dick.

Varegg wrote:

So what kind of actions makes empathy something more than just cheap talk?

Let me give you another example or two then lowing seeing as you are incapable of that yourself ...

1. Let's say that your kid or the kid next door or any other random kid falls off his/her bike, lies on the ground crying ... would you help that kid or just walk by thinking it doesn't concern you?

2. Give your seat on the bus to a senior citizen.

The list could go on for ever ... and simple things like this determines if you are empathic or not ... if you aren't empathic about the small issues chances are you ain't on the big issues either ...

1. yup, I would and have, nothing to do with empathy, just because I see someone in trouble does not mean I understand or can feel or share the pain they are in, they are in trouble, so I help. More toward morality and the golden rule than empathy.

2. Yup I would and I have, this goes toward courtesy and good manners. It does not mean I know what it is like to be 95 years old, I do not share in his pain or even understand his problems. Or even gave it a second thought after I stood up.


To be empathetic is to feel someones pain, understand it, maybe because you have been there and know, regardless as to why you might, empathy is an emotion NOT an action, and an emotion without action is cheap talk bullshit that serves no purpose.

FOr the most part, those of us that go through our daily routines like you and I can spout off all we want about how we feel someone elses pain, but the truth is, chances are we do not. Haiti for example, we gave, do you honestly claim that, because we gave that we have any idea as to what it is like to have your house, your family and your nation crumble before your eyes? I make no such claims, how is it you do?

I have no idea how to empathize with someone who has just lost everything in a house fire or a flood. I have no idea how to empathize with someone who has just lost a child in a car accident. I have no idea how to empathize with someone who has just found out they are dying. I have no idea because I have never experienced those events, and as far as I know neither have you. The best you and I can muster is sympathy, then maybe act on that sympathy with actions.

Empathy is not sympathy, there is a difference. Empathy is cheap talk emotion that unless you have experienced what the other person has, you have no idea how they feel though you may claim you do.

Sympathy is your concern and your grief over what someone else has to deal with. All you know is they are hurting. You are not sharing their pain or even understanding it, you can only imagine.

Still, sympathy like empathy is nothing but cheap talk without action. There is no escaping that fact.

Last edited by lowing (2010-05-21 04:34:16)

Varegg wrote:

Now you are closing in on the nuances lowing ... you are quite right that helping people in need is showing good manners, courtesy and following the golden rule like you say ... however empathy is a part of it all ... these emotions are bound together ...

Terminology: Empathy is the ability to understand and share another being's feelings.

Take notice of the phrase ability to understand and share ... you don't have to fall off a bike yourself to understand that it can be hurtful to do so ... you don't have to have cancer yourself to share a cancer-patients pain, you don't have to experience a earthquake to understand that people suffer greatly under such circumstances ...

you may want to read up on the differences between empathy snd sympathy. There is a difference, as I have spelled out. Both are emotions that has nothing to do with action, and certainly nothing to do with paying your taxes. You can cry over the loss of your best friends child. This is sympathy, feeling their loss or sharing in that loss as they do is empathy, ( which you can not unless you have lost a child of your own). Either way, you can have both emotions without lifting a finger to help. That is why they are worthless as they stand alone. Which brings us full circle to my premise that in regards to people we do not know, we do not empathize in any real sense, because we do not understand Haiti ( for example), or share in its pain. We say wow that is fucked up throw out a few bucks to make ourselves feel better and move along. Meanwhile their pain and suffering continues. That is not empathizing

I think you and those dumb fuck followers of yours in this thread really need to read the differences between empathy and sympathy before they continue to bare their own asses with the lowing bashing.

Last edited by lowing (2010-05-21 05:28:29)

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Now you are closing in on the nuances lowing ... you are quite right that helping people in need is showing good manners, courtesy and following the golden rule like you say ... however empathy is a part of it all ... these emotions are bound together ...

Terminology: Empathy is the ability to understand and share another being's feelings.

Take notice of the phrase ability to understand and share ... you don't have to fall off a bike yourself to understand that it can be hurtful to do so ... you don't have to have cancer yourself to share a cancer-patients pain, you don't have to experience a earthquake to understand that people suffer greatly under such circumstances ...

you may want to read up on the differences between empathy snd sympathy. There is a difference, as I have spelled out. Both are emotions that has nothing to do with action, and certainly nothing to do with paying your taxes. You can cry over the loss of your best friends child. This is sympathy, feeling their loss or sharing in that loss as they do is empathy, ( which you can not unless you have lost a child of your own). Either way, you can have both emotions without lifting a finger to help. That is why they are worthless as they stand alone. Which brings us full circle to my premise that in regards to people we do not know, we do not empathize in any real sense, because we do not understand Haiti ( for example), or share in its pain. We say wow that is fucked up throw out a few bucks to make ourselves feel better and move along. Meanwhile their pain and suffering continues. That is not empathizing

I think you and those dumb fuck followers of yours in this thread really need to read the differences between empathy and sympathy before they continue to bare their own asses with the lowing bashing.

Then you have your version of what empathy is and I have mine, and mine just happens to be exactly like the text book version ... so be careful who you call a dumbfuck lowing ...

Varegg wrote:

lowing wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Now you are closing in on the nuances lowing ... you are quite right that helping people in need is showing good manners, courtesy and following the golden rule like you say ... however empathy is a part of it all ... these emotions are bound together ...

Terminology: Empathy is the ability to understand and share another being's feelings.

Take notice of the phrase ability to understand and share ... you don't have to fall off a bike yourself to understand that it can be hurtful to do so ... you don't have to have cancer yourself to share a cancer-patients pain, you don't have to experience a earthquake to understand that people suffer greatly under such circumstances ...

you may want to read up on the differences between empathy snd sympathy. There is a difference, as I have spelled out. Both are emotions that has nothing to do with action, and certainly nothing to do with paying your taxes. You can cry over the loss of your best friends child. This is sympathy, feeling their loss or sharing in that loss as they do is empathy, ( which you can not unless you have lost a child of your own). Either way, you can have both emotions without lifting a finger to help. That is why they are worthless as they stand alone. Which brings us full circle to my premise that in regards to people we do not know, we do not empathize in any real sense, because we do not understand Haiti ( for example), or share in its pain. We say wow that is fucked up throw out a few bucks to make ourselves feel better and move along. Meanwhile their pain and suffering continues. That is not empathizing

I think you and those dumb fuck followers of yours in this thread really need to read the differences between empathy and sympathy before they continue to bare their own asses with the lowing bashing.

Then you have your version of what empathy is and I have mine, and mine just happens to be exactly like the text book version ... so be careful who you call a dumbfuck lowing ...

sorry Varegg, the "text book version" of empathy does not mention taxes or charity. You are 100% wrong. Empathy is EXACTLY as I described it. and that is indisputable.