BF2S Forums Should Arizona rename itself to "Nazi-zona"?

11 Bravo wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

so...let me get this straight so i know some of you are not trolling....please prove to me you are not.


you have an issue with a FEDERAL law that has been law for a very long time?  you have an issue with EVERYONE being required to have some form of ID not just one specific group?

wow.  BS.  you are either trolls, media sheep, or just plain derp derp.

FTW

Diesel_dyk wrote:

On the issue of federal law as in "have problem with enforcing federal law" and the "well everyone has to produce ID anyway" those aren't even arguments. They are just buzz phrases that on the surface sound so reasonable that they must be true, but they really mean nothing, its liking using some derf talking point and derf buzz phrase like patriotism and true american. So first fallacy, its not "everyone" that the law requires police to check... its citizens who look illegal and the law is mandatory on cops to do it, so cops have to as in are required to check the IDs of citizens who look illegal. So its not "everyone" and that means the law singles out some citizens based on how they look for negative treatment that is mandatory. That makes that part of the argument a complete lie.  and second, federal immigration law is not enforcable on citizens, period, so that's another lie. Besides that the Arizona law goes way beyond federal law. It would be like the feds have a law that makes ID checks by the border patrol mandatory on people who look illegal. That's not what the federal law is or does. The federal law doesn't strip out the cops discretion to not ask. So do I have a problem with a law that requires cops to ask citizens to ask them for their IDs based on how they look? Hell ya I do. Because it singles out and targets citizens who look like illegals for extra scrutiny that other citizens won't face.

You're arguments = fail. Its just some buzz phrases you picked up somewhere. Come back when you read the full post and take your time to think this one through and come up with an original thought. btw stop listening to talk radio its rotting your brain.

buzz words eh?  ok mr fail OP.

btw, what do you mean talk radio?

Read what I wrote and develop an argument, come on I'm waiting. I showed why its not EVERYONE as you state and I showed you how the Arizona law goes beyond the federal law. If AZ wanted it to apply to EVERYONE it should have stated that the cops have to check the ID of EVERYONE they stop and make a determination of legal status. That way EVERYONE could feel the impact of this law. Blonde haired, blue eyed, been here for five generations but no ID, tough charge him too, why should he get a free pass. That would be applying the law equally to EVERYONE. Like I said buzz words and BS with no meaning or substance once you make the slightest inquiry.

And the OP is not a fail. on the ethnic studies ban, its more than relevant to a parallel to other societies that passed laws of social control that favored a dominant group. So the "Nazi-zona" comment is relevant and yes its also funny and you starting to see blow back on the AZ legislation. And don't just dismiss those people as being unpatriotic or being uppity unamerican mexican-americans because that's just falling back on more buzz words and phrases, like "I wish Califonria would slide into the ocean" or that's "mexi-fornia" for you /whatever.

BTW Don't forget to read my comment about US multiculturalism being the spawn of segregation, you might learn something about unintended consequences and blow back.

tl;dr, mr dyke

nlsme1 wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

buzz words eh?  ok mr fail OP.

btw, what do you mean talk radio?

Read what I wrote and develop an argument, come on I'm waiting. I showed why its not EVERYONE as you state and I showed you how the Arizona law goes beyond the federal law. If AZ wanted it to apply to EVERYONE it should have stated that the cops have to check the ID of EVERYONE they stop and make a determination of legal status. That way EVERYONE could feel the impact of this law. Blonde haired, blue eyed, been here for five generations but no ID, tough charge him too, why should he get a free pass. That would be applying the law equally to EVERYONE. Like I said buzz words and BS with no meaning or substance once you make the slightest inquiry.

And the OP is not a fail. on the ethnic studies ban, its more than relevant to a parallel to other societies that passed laws of social control that favored a dominant group. So the "Nazi-zona" comment is relevant and yes its also funny and you starting to see blow back on the AZ legislation. And don't just dismiss those people as being unpatriotic or being uppity unamerican mexican-americans because that's just falling back on more buzz words and phrases, like "I wish Califonria would slide into the ocean" or that's "mexi-fornia" for you /whatever.

BTW Don't forget to read my comment about US multiculturalism being the spawn of segregation, you might learn something about unintended consequences and blow back.

By that logic, everyone pulled over should also have to submit to a sobriety test. Fact is, the law says NOTHING about race. There are other laws that deal with that. Good thing the "copwatchers" are there in case one of those laws are broken.

Wrong, Fact is that the law says if you look like an illegal, cop has to check you. So you are are correct it doesn't say anything about race... but once again that's another irrelevant point.

So you are saying that if the law applied equally to everyone, and cops had to check everyone's immigration status then to you that would be like requiring everyone to submit to a sobriety test, and So you would parallel the intrusiveness of a soberiety test with checking ID, now to me that looks like you think checking ID is really intrusive, and in these circumstances I agree.

You seem to indicate that you wouldn't like that and you wouldn't support the law then?..... How interesting! 

You see, once we get past the onion layers of these buzz words, do you see what lies underneathe.

So it boils down to the fact that it is okay if only citizens who look like illegals have to submit to this type of treatment..... but not if everyone had to because then that would mean people would be subjected to really intrusive behavior frm the state. Do you not see how this law results in unequal treatment between citizens who are supposed to be treated equally by constitutional law. mmmm shouldn't that make you rethink whether this law is a good idea.


and 11 BRavo TL:DR? really, its called DST, read and post... stop trolling and trying to bury real content that you disagree with but can't formulate a rational argument against. TL:DR makes you look like a dork.

Diesel_dyk wrote:

nlsme1 wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Read what I wrote and develop an argument, come on I'm waiting. I showed why its not EVERYONE as you state and I showed you how the Arizona law goes beyond the federal law. If AZ wanted it to apply to EVERYONE it should have stated that the cops have to check the ID of EVERYONE they stop and make a determination of legal status. That way EVERYONE could feel the impact of this law. Blonde haired, blue eyed, been here for five generations but no ID, tough charge him too, why should he get a free pass. That would be applying the law equally to EVERYONE. Like I said buzz words and BS with no meaning or substance once you make the slightest inquiry.

And the OP is not a fail. on the ethnic studies ban, its more than relevant to a parallel to other societies that passed laws of social control that favored a dominant group. So the "Nazi-zona" comment is relevant and yes its also funny and you starting to see blow back on the AZ legislation. And don't just dismiss those people as being unpatriotic or being uppity unamerican mexican-americans because that's just falling back on more buzz words and phrases, like "I wish Califonria would slide into the ocean" or that's "mexi-fornia" for you /whatever.

BTW Don't forget to read my comment about US multiculturalism being the spawn of segregation, you might learn something about unintended consequences and blow back.

By that logic, everyone pulled over should also have to submit to a sobriety test. Fact is, the law says NOTHING about race. There are other laws that deal with that. Good thing the "copwatchers" are there in case one of those laws are broken.

Wrong, Fact is that the law says if you look like an illegal, cop has to check you. So you are are correct it doesn't say anything about race... but once again that's another irrelevant point.

So you are saying that if the law applied equally to everyone, and cops had to check everyone's immigration status then to you that would be like requiring everyone to submit to a sobriety test, and So you would parallel the intrusiveness of a soberiety test with checking ID, now to me that looks like you think checking ID is really intrusive, and in these circumstances I agree.

You seem to indicate that you wouldn't like that and you wouldn't support the law then?..... How interesting! 

You see, once we get past the onion layers of these buzz words, do you see what lies underneathe.

So it boils down to the fact that it is okay if only citizens who look like illegals have to submit to this type of treatment..... but not if everyone had to because then that would mean people would be subjected to really intrusive behavior frm the state. Do you not see how this law results in unequal treatment between citizens who are supposed to be treated equally by constitutional law. mmmm shouldn't that make you rethink whether this law is a good idea.


and 11 BRavo TL:DR? really, its called DST, read and post... stop trolling and trying to bury real content that you disagree with but can't formulate a rational argument against. TL:DR makes you look like a dork.

There is more to "suspicion" then looks. The way one acts says way more. Cops don't ask every single person if they have been drinking. They don't ask every single person if the have drugs or weapons. They don't always ask what they were doing where they were. The law only states that if a cop suspects illegal status, they now have a right to verify it. And act upon an illegal alien. But god help the first cop that pulls over a legal citizen because they are of a darker skin tone.

I could say the same thng about a D.C. lawyer I know and a guy who ran for congress who used to work for goldman sachs I know who would say the exact opposite of what those "objective"mexicans say

i sure as fuck dont view it as objective.

my history with unfair treatment by law enforcement will not allow me to look at this law that az passed as being anything but a blank check to harass citizens of hispanic decent.



Im almost 100% certain anyone who went through any similar scenario I went through or even close to it would not support this bill in the least.

Last edited by eleven bravo (2010-05-14 12:07:22)

that would be true if there was any kind of criteria stated that would fit the description of an illegal immigrant.  since there is not, it targets a group of citizens who happen to share the same ethnicity as the majority of the illegal immigrant population.

how would you like it if the feds decided to target all white males for random searches to look for right wing militia members?  they are the ones that fit the description in those cases.

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

that would be true if there was any kind of criteria stated that would fit the description of an illegal immigrant.  since there is not, it targets a group of citizens who happen to share the same ethnicity as the majority of the illegal immigrant population.

how would you like it if the feds decided to target all white males for random searches to look for right wing militia members?  they are the ones that fit the description in those cases.

They are not targeting any group...ALL immigrants are required to carry papers. It does not say all MEXICAN immigrnats.

so, to avoid the appearance of racial profiling, let's just ask everyone for their papers, amiright?

burnzz wrote:

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

that would be true if there was any kind of criteria stated that would fit the description of an illegal immigrant.  since there is not, it targets a group of citizens who happen to share the same ethnicity as the majority of the illegal immigrant population.

how would you like it if the feds decided to target all white males for random searches to look for right wing militia members?  they are the ones that fit the description in those cases.

They are not targeting any group...ALL immigrants are required to carry papers. It does not say all MEXICAN immigrnats.

so, to avoid the appearance of racial profiling, let's just ask everyone for their papers, amiright?

eleven bravo wrote:

thanks for proving my point lowing.  I never once mentioned "mexican" yet you jumped to that assumption.  see how easy it is to do it on an internet forum, imagine how much easier itll be when a cop sees a group of hispanics walking down the street.  hes gonna make the same assumption you just did, a bunch of "mexicans"

I didn't say you were a Mexican, but lets cut the bullshit, the problem in AZ is illegal immigration from Mexico.

you still have not told me how you were so unfairly treated.

Last edited by lowing (2010-05-14 12:23:42)

It's obvious many still haven't read the bill.

It gives the police another reason to harass the hispanic populace.  It's obvious you (lowing) have never been pulled over for spurious reasons but for people who have it's painfully obvious how this law could be misused.