German High Court: It's YOUR fault

2010-05-14 04:02:58

#1

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/37107291/ns … -security/

Germany's top criminal court ruled Wednesday that Internet users need to secure their private wireless connections by password to prevent unauthorized people from using their Web access to illegally download data.

Internet users can be fined up to euro100 ($126) if a third party takes advantage of their unprotected WLAN connection to illegally download music or other files, the Karlsruhe-based court said in its verdict.

"Private users are obligated to check whether their wireless connection is adequately secured to the danger of unauthorized third parties abusing it to commit copyright violation," the court said.

Um...wut?

How is the one whose internet access was illegally used responsible for the illegal acts of the one who used it? Is someone whose car was stolen responsible for the car thief's actions after they stole the car?

Granted, it's a small thing to put in a password, but what is meant by "adequately"? How are private users "obligated"? That's ridiculous. Private users aren't "obligated" to do anything.

And this only applies to private users...why not public WiFi providers (like coffee houses, internet cafes, etc)? Garbage ruling, IMO.

Last edited by FEOS (2010-05-14 04:04:49)

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-05-14 04:20:43

#2

Lucien: Fantasma Parastasie; +1,451|6938

It's so people can't say "it wasn't me, somebody used my network!". It's an obvious excuse that people WILL abuse and as such they're preemptively taking care of it.

Inb4 wall of text in reply that's basically "baww I still dont understand so youre wrong"

2010-05-14 04:20:54

#3

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6906|London, England

Yeah that's stupid.....I'm pinning my hopes on having the Liberal Democrats in the current coalition to prevent stupid shit like this from happening in the UK. God damn typical baby boomers don't know a thing about internet and technology so they do dumb shit like this, can't wait till they're all out of power and gone.

2010-05-14 04:28:46

#4

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6696|'Murka

Lucien wrote:
It's so people can't say "it wasn't me, somebody used my network!". It's an obvious excuse that people WILL abuse and as such they're preemptively taking care of it.

Inb4 wall of text in reply that's basically "baww I still dont understand so youre wrong"

I fully understand that.

However, from a civil liberties perspective, it's absolutely fucked up.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-05-14 04:29:46

#5

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6906|London, England

Lucien wrote:
It's so people can't say "it wasn't me, somebody used my network!". It's an obvious excuse that people WILL abuse and as such they're preemptively taking care of it.

Inb4 wall of text in reply that's basically "baww I still dont understand so youre wrong"

They're preemptively taking care of 'it' in the worst way possible

2010-05-14 04:57:56

#6

jsnipy: ...; +3,277|6808|...

so mac address filtering would not fit in this law

2010-05-14 04:59:36

#7

Surgeons: U shud proabbly f off u fat prik; +3,097|6775|Gogledd Cymru

j, can people spoof their mac address by messing with ARP tables or something. My lecturer was on about something this term but I didn't quite understand him.

2010-05-14 05:02:50

#8

jsnipy: ...; +3,277|6808|...

The Sheriff wrote:
j, can people spoof their mac address by messing with ARP tables or something. My lecturer was on about something this term but I didn't quite understand him.

Yes they can be spoofed. It's not entirely simple, takes a bit of determination.

Still issues when you have tons of devices with varying security capabilities.

Last edited by jsnipy (2010-05-14 05:10:24)

2010-05-14 05:37:16

#9

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

If I could download a car, I would.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2010-05-14 06:22:12

#10

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7060|Moscow, Russia

FEOS wrote:
How is the one whose internet access was illegally used responsible for the illegal acts of the one who used it?

read again, they are not responsible for illegal acts of others, only for not protecting their internet connection. if you have a gun you are supposed to keep it somewhere safe so that it can't be used for illegal stuff, right? why souldn't you do the same with your internet connection?

FEOS wrote:
Granted, it's a small thing to put in a password

passwords, mac-address filtering, even outdated wep-encryption are not enough these days to secure your wireless connection. people should stop breadcasting their wireless ssid and use wpa2 with dinamically changing keys to have a reasonable degree of protection.

FEOS wrote:
And this only applies to private users...why not public WiFi providers (like coffee houses, internet cafes, etc)? Garbage ruling, IMO.

now this i agree with. this regulation should certainly include public wifi providers.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-05-14 06:24:12

#11

Trotskygrad: бля; +354|6284|Vortex Ring State

Shahter wrote:
FEOS wrote:
How is the one whose internet access was illegally used responsible for the illegal acts of the one who used it?
read again, they are not responsible for illegal acts of others, only for not protecting their internet connection. if you have a gun you are supposed to keep it somewhere safe so that it can't be used for illegal stuff, right? why souldn't you do the same with your internet connection?

FEOS wrote:
Granted, it's a small thing to put in a password
passwords, mac-address filtering, even outdated wep-encryption are not enough these days to secure your wireless connection. people should stop breadcasting their wireless ssid and use wpa2 with dinamically changing keys to have a reasonable degree of protection.

Tbh, I used to use WPA2-TKIP, but then people started bitching about it because it doesn't work for Windows XP without a patch, and it's still buggy after that. Fucking Windows

2010-05-14 06:28:18

#12

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7060|Moscow, Russia

Trotskygrad wrote:
Tbh, I used to use WPA2-TKIP, but then people started bitching about it because it doesn't work for Windows XP without a patch, and it's still buggy after that. Fucking Windows

it works perfectly fine since sp3. if it doesn't the problem most probably is with your wireless access point and it's outdated firmware. update it.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-05-14 06:31:05

#13

Trotskygrad: бля; +354|6284|Vortex Ring State

Shahter wrote:
Trotskygrad wrote:
Tbh, I used to use WPA2-TKIP, but then people started bitching about it because it doesn't work for Windows XP without a patch, and it's still buggy after that. Fucking Windows
it works perfectly fine since sp3. if it doesn't the problem most probably is with your wireless access point and it's outdated firmware. update it.

yeah but most people in my department are too fucking lazy to update their laptop once in a while.

2010-05-14 06:35:30

#14

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7060|Moscow, Russia

Trotskygrad wrote:
Shahter wrote:
Trotskygrad wrote:
Tbh, I used to use WPA2-TKIP, but then people started bitching about it because it doesn't work for Windows XP without a patch, and it's still buggy after that. Fucking Windows
it works perfectly fine since sp3. if it doesn't the problem most probably is with your wireless access point and it's outdated firmware. update it.
yeah but most people in my department are too fucking lazy to update their laptop once in a while.

this is what this thread is about - fuckers who can't be bothered to properly update their software and secure their internet connections. whoever ruled against them on this is absolutely right, imo.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-05-14 07:37:19

#15

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

Its the same logic Germans apply to keeping firearms secure, we know you don't get that either.

Fuck Israel

2010-05-14 07:42:20

#16

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6906|London, England

Yeah, but those are friggin firearms. And this is internet. The car analogy feos said is more apt than a gun one, because cars are just seen as everyday regular non-threatening necessities, just like internet and unlike firearms.

2010-05-14 07:54:07

#17

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7060|Moscow, Russia

Mekstizzle wrote:
Yeah, but those are friggin firearms. And this is internet. The car analogy feos said is more apt than a gun one, because cars are just seen as everyday regular non-threatening necessities, just like internet and unlike firearms.

who cares how those are seen? it's about how those "everyday regular non-threatening necessities" can be used. and again, they are not making you aswer for illegal activities of others which could go up hell knows how high in damages to copyright holders, but only for leaving your connection to the internet insecure.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-05-14 08:16:05

#18

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6906|London, England

On a side note, I only use basic WEP. Mainly because it's easier like that to setup the laptop/PS3/blackberries etc.. well sort of, not easier, just lazier. I don't want to change and have to setup everything again.

So, saying that. How would I know if someone is stealing my internets or not. I seem to live in a pretty dumb area, all the people who would know how to do this (age-wise) are chavs so I'm not too worried.
I can check out the DHCP Client List on my router webpage and it never shows anything odd that's connected to my router. But are there specific programs out there to see if someone is stealing your internets? Or just seeing who's using it?

2010-05-14 08:42:33

#19

Shahter: Zee Ruskie; +295|7060|Moscow, Russia

Mekstizzle wrote:
So, saying that. How would I know if someone is stealing my internets or not. I seem to live in a pretty dumb area, all the people who would know how to do this (age-wise) are chavs so I'm not too worried.
I can check out the DHCP Client List on my router webpage and it never shows anything odd that's connected to my router. But are there specific programs out there to see if someone is stealing your internets? Or just seeing who's using it?

i don't think you'll find such a program that will work with your basic wifi access point designed for home use. however, almost all of them are on linux so you could write something yourself if you have the skills .
anyway, just checking the logs from time to time should do the trick. and take your time to disable ssid broadcasting and configure newer encryption - it's not rocket science, ffs.

if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.

2010-05-14 15:27:31

#20

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:
Its the same logic Germans apply to keeping firearms secure, we know you don't get that either.

We do prefer freedom of choice here. I know it's kind of alien to some Europeans.

2010-05-14 16:04:21

#21

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6853|Mountains of NC

germany ???????????? ....... I thought that was Obamas logic

or could they be the same :hmmmmmm:

_{now I'm basing this post off the title and just the title}

https://static.bf2s.com/files/user/17445/carhartt.jpg

2010-05-14 16:07:10

#22

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

We like social responsibility, not selfishness.

Fuck Israel

2010-05-14 16:09:04

#23

SEREMAKER: BABYMAKIN EXPERT √; +2,187|6853|Mountains of NC

but of course, you're always there to help your fellow man

2010-05-14 16:35:07

#24

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6690|North Carolina

Dilbert_X wrote:
We like social responsibility, not selfishness.

That's good. I see many programs throughout Europe and Australia that encourage that.

However, this isn't one of them. This is basically a law that was passed to give copyright entities much more power than they had before. Groups like the MPAA and RIAA eat this shit up.

Now, admittedly, America has fallen prey to laws like this too.

2010-05-14 18:46:47

#25

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,056|7057|PNW

So, does that mean that all Germans should get guard dogs and home video surveillance equipment, or be fined by the German government if their shit gets stolen?

Or does that mean that Europe may become pro-firearms for home defense...lol

BF2S Forums German High Court: It's YOUR fault

Lucien wrote:

Lucien wrote:

The Sheriff wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

FEOS wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Trotskygrad wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

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