| Far Left | 9% | 9% - 6 | ||||
| Left | 7% | 7% - 5 | ||||
| Moderate Left | 19% | 19% - 12 | ||||
| Center (more or less) | 26% | 26% - 17 | ||||
| Moderate Right | 9% | 9% - 6 | ||||
| Right | 19% | 19% - 12 | ||||
| Far Right | 7% | 7% - 5 | ||||
| Total: 63 | ||||||
It is probably more like 4 pages of debate and 17 pages of lowing bashing the likes of your post. If people like you would either contribute to the debate or stay out of the thread it would not be as near as cluttered as it is now. If it is something you are really concerned about, stay out of the thread and do not read it, and certainly do not post in it.Uzique wrote:
jesus christ 20 pages of semantics and terminology debates
can someone just buy lowing the 'political science for dummies' handbook and let him go read it for 2 weeks
would save us all a massive fucking headache
lol I see, so it is my fault and not people like you that do nothing accept spam a thread with the ever popular lowing bashing.....got it....like a true liberal, nothing is your fault, always someone else to blame.Uzique wrote:
well no shit im not overly concerned or interested in reading page upon page of that nonsense in an otherwise potentially-interesting thread.
you could a) buy a book OR b) learn to use wikipedia. save us all the insufferable agony of trying to communicate new ideas to you.
Well so much for free advice.Uzique wrote:
ha ha ha you have GOT to be trolling.
your ability to twist and engender anything with some partisan-political line not only stuns and astounds but ALSO REALLY FUCKING IRRITATES
p.s. i am old-money, old-school english toff breed. conservative, right-wing. lol, liberal. or maybe you mean european liberalism, classical liberalism... you know, that concept we spent 6 pages trying to explain to you in the fashion of a young, nursery child being inducted into his ABC's.... in which case, YES. you finally GOT IT!
Last edited by lowing (2010-05-08 12:11:48)
lowing, you are far and away the most stubborn and hard headed person I've ever encountered on the internet. Not only do you not make any real points in any threads you enter, you seem to have a 5th grade education while allowing Glenn Beck to fill in the gaps of your knowledge for you. You're a fucking moron and make me seriously wish this forum had an ignore feature.lowing wrote:
Well so much for free advice.Uzique wrote:
ha ha ha you have GOT to be trolling.
your ability to twist and engender anything with some partisan-political line not only stuns and astounds but ALSO REALLY FUCKING IRRITATES
p.s. i am old-money, old-school english toff breed. conservative, right-wing. lol, liberal. or maybe you mean european liberalism, classical liberalism... you know, that concept we spent 6 pages trying to explain to you in the fashion of a young, nursery child being inducted into his ABC's.... in which case, YES. you finally GOT IT!
Let me just ask how many pages are you going to use posting lowing bashing then bitch about how I drag a thread? You would be a liberal here in the states, get over it.
I do enjoy your premise that lowing bashing isn't trolling....The trolling comes in when I stand up to it
Last edited by JohnG@lt (2010-05-08 12:17:10)
sorry ya feel that way.. and I don't watch or listen to Beck or Limbaugh. I will not take the blame for the lowing bashing that prevails whenever I enter a thread. If you have read this forum, 95% of the time it is a pile on of insults and personal attacks that have little to do with the discussion at hand. I do not start it, nor am I going to cower from it. My opinions are not based on how many people disagree with me, or what PC should be adhered to. I say what I mean and mean what I say.JohnG@lt wrote:
lowing, you are far and away the most stubborn and hard headed person I've ever encountered on the internet. Not only do you not make any real points in any threads you enter, you seem to have a 5th grade education while allowing Glenn Beck to fill in the gaps of your knowledge for you. You're a fucking moron and make me seriously wish this forum had an ignore feature.lowing wrote:
Well so much for free advice.Uzique wrote:
ha ha ha you have GOT to be trolling.
your ability to twist and engender anything with some partisan-political line not only stuns and astounds but ALSO REALLY FUCKING IRRITATES
p.s. i am old-money, old-school english toff breed. conservative, right-wing. lol, liberal. or maybe you mean european liberalism, classical liberalism... you know, that concept we spent 6 pages trying to explain to you in the fashion of a young, nursery child being inducted into his ABC's.... in which case, YES. you finally GOT IT!
Let me just ask how many pages are you going to use posting lowing bashing then bitch about how I drag a thread? You would be a liberal here in the states, get over it.
I do enjoy your premise that lowing bashing isn't trolling....The trolling comes in when I stand up to it
And before you call me an idiot liberal or whatever other name you choose to call people, I voted for McCain you ass.
Edit - And you are the very definition of a troll. Your entire purpose on this forum is to anger people with the blank wall of stupidity that you post in every thread. Why you haven't been banned is beyond me.
No, what Obama has done is push through authoritarian and populist legislation on his way to a planned economy. Fascism has nothing to do with it. Fascism is a form social authoritarianism that neglects the economy because it cares more about controlling the people than business. Will it nationalize an industry that defies it? Yes. As long as the industry falls in line and produces, a fascist government is more than willing to sit back and loot it's profits via taxation instead of openly trying to control it.lowing wrote:
sorry ya feel that way.. and I don't watch or listen to Beck or Limbaugh. I will not take the blame for the lowing bashing that prevails whenever I enter a thread. If you have read this forum, 95% of the time it is a pile on of insults and personal attacks that have little to do with the discussion at hand. I do not start it, nor am I going to cower from it. My opinions are not based on how many people disagree with me, or what PC should be adhered to. I say what I mean and mean what I say.JohnG@lt wrote:
lowing, you are far and away the most stubborn and hard headed person I've ever encountered on the internet. Not only do you not make any real points in any threads you enter, you seem to have a 5th grade education while allowing Glenn Beck to fill in the gaps of your knowledge for you. You're a fucking moron and make me seriously wish this forum had an ignore feature.lowing wrote:
Well so much for free advice.
Let me just ask how many pages are you going to use posting lowing bashing then bitch about how I drag a thread? You would be a liberal here in the states, get over it.
I do enjoy your premise that lowing bashing isn't trolling....The trolling comes in when I stand up to it
And before you call me an idiot liberal or whatever other name you choose to call people, I voted for McCain you ass.
Edit - And you are the very definition of a troll. Your entire purpose on this forum is to anger people with the blank wall of stupidity that you post in every thread. Why you haven't been banned is beyond me.
ALthough I havegotten pissed a few times in this forum, it is without a doubt the exception and not the rule. If you are constantly angered on the internet then I would suggest, you have the problem and not me.
Whether you like it or not, I post an argument, in this case a defintion of fascism, I did not make it up, and what Obama has done, does fit into some of that definition.
LOL...eleven bravo wrote:
lowings the only one with the guts to say what everyone else is thinking
Even in your own words, Obamas agenda can be interpreted as fascist. There has been no other administration so bent on govt. dependency for the people than this one. His buying into private industry then taxing the everliving shit out of us to pay for it, as well as his myriad of other dependency programs, defines his will to "control the people". His taking over of private industry auto and now healthcare is just another means to an end. Govt. control of every aspect of our lives forcing us into a corner with no choice but to run to govt. for our every need. A comfortable place for a lot of people on this forum, not for me however.JohnG@lt wrote:
No, what Obama has done is push through authoritarian and populist legislation on his way to a planned economy. Fascism has nothing to do with it. Fascism is a form social authoritarianism that neglects the economy because it cares more about controlling the people than business. Will it nationalize an industry that defies it? Yes. As long as the industry falls in line and produces, a fascist government is more than willing to sit back and loot it's profits via taxation instead of openly trying to control it.lowing wrote:
sorry ya feel that way.. and I don't watch or listen to Beck or Limbaugh. I will not take the blame for the lowing bashing that prevails whenever I enter a thread. If you have read this forum, 95% of the time it is a pile on of insults and personal attacks that have little to do with the discussion at hand. I do not start it, nor am I going to cower from it. My opinions are not based on how many people disagree with me, or what PC should be adhered to. I say what I mean and mean what I say.JohnG@lt wrote:
lowing, you are far and away the most stubborn and hard headed person I've ever encountered on the internet. Not only do you not make any real points in any threads you enter, you seem to have a 5th grade education while allowing Glenn Beck to fill in the gaps of your knowledge for you. You're a fucking moron and make me seriously wish this forum had an ignore feature.
And before you call me an idiot liberal or whatever other name you choose to call people, I voted for McCain you ass.
Edit - And you are the very definition of a troll. Your entire purpose on this forum is to anger people with the blank wall of stupidity that you post in every thread. Why you haven't been banned is beyond me.
Although I have gotten pissed a few times in this forum, it is without a doubt the exception and not the rule. If you are constantly angered on the internet then I would suggest, you have the problem and not me.
Whether you like it or not, I post an argument, in this case a definition of fascism, I did not make it up, and what Obama has done, does fit into some of that definition.
Populist and Authoritarian on the road to a Planned Economy. I never said 'fascist' as he doesn't fit the all important social definition central to fascism.lowing wrote:
Even in your own words, Obamas agenda can be interpreted as fascist. There has been no other administration so bent on govt. dependency for the people than this one. His buying into private industry then taxing the everliving shit out of us to pay for it, as well as his myriad of other dependency programs, defines his will to "control the people". His taking over of private industry auto and now healthcare is just another means to an end. Govt. control of every aspect of our lives forcing us into a corner with no choice but to run to govt. for our every need. A comfortable place for a lot of people on this forum, not for me however.JohnG@lt wrote:
No, what Obama has done is push through authoritarian and populist legislation on his way to a planned economy. Fascism has nothing to do with it. Fascism is a form social authoritarianism that neglects the economy because it cares more about controlling the people than business. Will it nationalize an industry that defies it? Yes. As long as the industry falls in line and produces, a fascist government is more than willing to sit back and loot it's profits via taxation instead of openly trying to control it.lowing wrote:
sorry ya feel that way.. and I don't watch or listen to Beck or Limbaugh. I will not take the blame for the lowing bashing that prevails whenever I enter a thread. If you have read this forum, 95% of the time it is a pile on of insults and personal attacks that have little to do with the discussion at hand. I do not start it, nor am I going to cower from it. My opinions are not based on how many people disagree with me, or what PC should be adhered to. I say what I mean and mean what I say.
Although I have gotten pissed a few times in this forum, it is without a doubt the exception and not the rule. If you are constantly angered on the internet then I would suggest, you have the problem and not me.
Whether you like it or not, I post an argument, in this case a definition of fascism, I did not make it up, and what Obama has done, does fit into some of that definition.
exceot for the action of govt. control over private industry, control over the media which is in the works, What planned economy? The only part of this economy that has grown to any significant level is government. How is this not on the road to fascism? Certainly the private sector has not seen such growth as it should since ya know we are supposed to be a free market economy.JohnG@lt wrote:
Populist and Authoritarian on the road to a Planned Economy. I never said 'fascist' as he doesn't fit the all important social definition central to fascism.lowing wrote:
Even in your own words, Obamas agenda can be interpreted as fascist. There has been no other administration so bent on govt. dependency for the people than this one. His buying into private industry then taxing the everliving shit out of us to pay for it, as well as his myriad of other dependency programs, defines his will to "control the people". His taking over of private industry auto and now healthcare is just another means to an end. Govt. control of every aspect of our lives forcing us into a corner with no choice but to run to govt. for our every need. A comfortable place for a lot of people on this forum, not for me however.JohnG@lt wrote:
No, what Obama has done is push through authoritarian and populist legislation on his way to a planned economy. Fascism has nothing to do with it. Fascism is a form social authoritarianism that neglects the economy because it cares more about controlling the people than business. Will it nationalize an industry that defies it? Yes. As long as the industry falls in line and produces, a fascist government is more than willing to sit back and loot it's profits via taxation instead of openly trying to control it.
Pretty much... Populism is commonly promoted among both the Democrats and the Republicans.Uzique wrote:
i'd definitely say 'populism' fits obamas current administrative ideology. ghandi was a populist.
well, when he wasn't chillin' with hitler in the reichstag
It's the 'road to serfdom' as Hayek so poignantly put it, not fascism. Populism is far more insidious and dangerous to freedom than Fascism ever was and it's far from limited to those on the left in American politics. Republicans have their own version which involves flag waving and nationalism. Two sides of the same coin really. Each is simply trying to deflect the people and rally them in a certain direction in order to pass legislation that will probably harm them more than help them. The Republicans waved their flags when they pushed through the PATRIOT Act and the war in Iraq. The Democrats are blaming the rich for everyones ills. It's what the two parties do because it wins them votes among idiots. American politics in general is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator among us which is why anyone with half a brain is an independent. Ever notice that the staunchest party supporters tend to be the least intelligent among us, regardless of party affiliation?lowing wrote:
exceot for the action of govt. control over private industry, control over the media which is in the works, What planned economy? The only part of this economy that has grown to any significant level is government. How is this not on the road to fascism? Certainly the private sector has not seen such growth as it should since ya know we are supposed to be a free market economy.JohnG@lt wrote:
Populist and Authoritarian on the road to a Planned Economy. I never said 'fascist' as he doesn't fit the all important social definition central to fascism.lowing wrote:
Even in your own words, Obamas agenda can be interpreted as fascist. There has been no other administration so bent on govt. dependency for the people than this one. His buying into private industry then taxing the everliving shit out of us to pay for it, as well as his myriad of other dependency programs, defines his will to "control the people". His taking over of private industry auto and now healthcare is just another means to an end. Govt. control of every aspect of our lives forcing us into a corner with no choice but to run to govt. for our every need. A comfortable place for a lot of people on this forum, not for me however.
I am? Do not confuse the fact that I loathe entitlement European style as a promotion for America the beautiful. When I speak of morality and values, I speak of western morality and values, not the good ole USA. I only recognize the USA as one of the only nations to air its dirty laundry for the world to attack. I view the USA as on of the only countries that, in spite of its faults tries to improve itself. I am not a buy American for America fool.JohnG@lt wrote:
It's the 'road to serfdom' as Hayek so poignantly put it, not fascism. Populism is far more insidious and dangerous to freedom than Fascism ever was and it's far from limited to those on the left in American politics. Republicans have their own version which involves flag waving and nationalism. Two sides of the same coin really. Each is simply trying to deflect the people and rally them in a certain direction in order to pass legislation that will probably harm them more than help them. The Republicans waved their flags when they pushed through the PATRIOT Act and the war in Iraq. The Democrats are blaming the rich for everyones ills. It's what the two parties do because it wins them votes among idiots. American politics in general is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator among us which is why anyone with half a brain is an independent. Ever notice that the staunchest party supporters tend to be the least intelligent among us, regardless of party affiliation?lowing wrote:
exceot for the action of govt. control over private industry, control over the media which is in the works, What planned economy? The only part of this economy that has grown to any significant level is government. How is this not on the road to fascism? Certainly the private sector has not seen such growth as it should since ya know we are supposed to be a free market economy.JohnG@lt wrote:
Populist and Authoritarian on the road to a Planned Economy. I never said 'fascist' as he doesn't fit the all important social definition central to fascism.
You yourself are a flag waver so why are you so upset when the other guys do it their way? You fall into the same trap every time the letter (R) is in power.
It's not so much hair splitting as it is degrees of control. What the Bolsheviks did in Russia was free the serfs... and then put them right back into serfdom under a different name. The type of both social and economic control that Stalin wielded was almost identical to what existed under Feudal Serfdom, with the only real change being a somewhat meritocratic system replacing the hereditary system that was in place before it. Now, would you call Stalin a fascist? Of course not. He was an entirely different sort of tyrant.lowing wrote:
I am? Do not confuse the fact that I loathe entitlement European style as a promotion for America the beautiful. When I speak of morality and values, I speak of western morality and values, not the good ole USA. I only recognize the USA as one of the only nations to air its dirty laundry for the world to attack. I view the USA as on of the only countries that, in spite of its faults tries to improve itself. I am not a buy American for America fool.JohnG@lt wrote:
It's the 'road to serfdom' as Hayek so poignantly put it, not fascism. Populism is far more insidious and dangerous to freedom than Fascism ever was and it's far from limited to those on the left in American politics. Republicans have their own version which involves flag waving and nationalism. Two sides of the same coin really. Each is simply trying to deflect the people and rally them in a certain direction in order to pass legislation that will probably harm them more than help them. The Republicans waved their flags when they pushed through the PATRIOT Act and the war in Iraq. The Democrats are blaming the rich for everyones ills. It's what the two parties do because it wins them votes among idiots. American politics in general is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator among us which is why anyone with half a brain is an independent. Ever notice that the staunchest party supporters tend to be the least intelligent among us, regardless of party affiliation?lowing wrote:
exceot for the action of govt. control over private industry, control over the media which is in the works, What planned economy? The only part of this economy that has grown to any significant level is government. How is this not on the road to fascism? Certainly the private sector has not seen such growth as it should since ya know we are supposed to be a free market economy.
You yourself are a flag waver so why are you so upset when the other guys do it their way? You fall into the same trap every time the letter (R) is in power.
I am wodering what fine hair it is you split to differenciate "serfdom" with govt. control over the people, one of the stipulations you yourself have laid out as an action toward fascism.
one factor that separated Stalin form being a facist is, there is no private industry, it is all govt. owned. that is socialist. govt. control over private industry is fascist. plain and simple. So technically GM is socialized while the healthcare industry is now a fascist operation.JohnG@lt wrote:
It's not so much hair splitting as it is degrees of control. What the Bolsheviks did in Russia was free the serfs... and then put them right back into serfdom under a different name. The type of both social and economic control that Stalin wielded was almost identical to what existed under Feudal Serfdom, with the only real change being a somewhat meritocratic system replacing the hereditary system that was in place before it. Now, would you call Stalin a fascist? Of course not. He was an entirely different sort of tyrant.lowing wrote:
I am? Do not confuse the fact that I loathe entitlement European style as a promotion for America the beautiful. When I speak of morality and values, I speak of western morality and values, not the good ole USA. I only recognize the USA as one of the only nations to air its dirty laundry for the world to attack. I view the USA as on of the only countries that, in spite of its faults tries to improve itself. I am not a buy American for America fool.JohnG@lt wrote:
It's the 'road to serfdom' as Hayek so poignantly put it, not fascism. Populism is far more insidious and dangerous to freedom than Fascism ever was and it's far from limited to those on the left in American politics. Republicans have their own version which involves flag waving and nationalism. Two sides of the same coin really. Each is simply trying to deflect the people and rally them in a certain direction in order to pass legislation that will probably harm them more than help them. The Republicans waved their flags when they pushed through the PATRIOT Act and the war in Iraq. The Democrats are blaming the rich for everyones ills. It's what the two parties do because it wins them votes among idiots. American politics in general is meant to appeal to the lowest common denominator among us which is why anyone with half a brain is an independent. Ever notice that the staunchest party supporters tend to be the least intelligent among us, regardless of party affiliation?
You yourself are a flag waver so why are you so upset when the other guys do it their way? You fall into the same trap every time the letter (R) is in power.
I am wodering what fine hair it is you split to differenciate "serfdom" with govt. control over the people, one of the stipulations you yourself have laid out as an action toward fascism.
Now, Obama of course is neither Stalin nor Mussolini. Are certain policies he's pushed through reminiscent of them? Yes, but no more so than what we experienced under Bush. Bush just pushed his agenda in the social realm while Obama has been pushing his agenda more in the economic realm. If you really want to argue definitions, Bush was far more 'fascist' than Obama has been. The two combined are pushing our country in an ever more Stalinist/Feudal direction and that is the problem we face in America. One party's dominant feature is social authoritarianism with a moderate economic laxity while the other is an economic authoritarian with moderate social laxity. Put it together and if they keep flip-flopping back and forth every election cycle, on a long enough timeline we will all end up serfs with our 'elected' officials as taskmasters. Both parties are to blame for this, not just Obama.
Last edited by lowing (2010-05-08 15:39:32)
I have issues when I'm reading a discussion by others and see the same worn out, tired and incorrect crap from someone who's just angling the argument in some retarded fashion, in this case the same person all the time, tbh.Marlo Stanfield wrote:
Some of you guys have issues with your anti-lowing resentment. Jaekus and ruis mainly, tbh.
Uh ok. I'll drop in again in about 20 pages.Spark wrote:
No and that's part of the point. However Kmarion's, because of depth and backing, is probably as good as you'll find without buying a book on the subject (which I'm sure are aplenty)Dilbert_X wrote:
So, do we have an agreed definition of fascist yet?
We'll probably still be going... that's if some of us haven't been hospitalised from banging our heads on the nearest solid object.Dilbert_X wrote:
Uh ok. I'll drop in again in about 20 pages.Spark wrote:
No and that's part of the point. However Kmarion's, because of depth and backing, is probably as good as you'll find without buying a book on the subject (which I'm sure are aplenty)Dilbert_X wrote:
So, do we have an agreed definition of fascist yet?
