blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6931
link to the video

Tens of thousands of people across the Bay Area turned out in protest of Arizona's tough new immigration law. The demonstrations went on all day and some stretched into the night.In San Jose, thousands of marchers headed to an evening rally at city hall. In San Francisco, a separate demonstration wrapped up in the afternoon, but not without a bit of trouble.Three people were attacked and at least two others were arrested. The people assaulted were part of the Minutemen demonstration, a group in favor of Arizona's new immigration law. They said a large group of immigrants' rights supporters followed them to the BART station on Market Street and started punching and kicking them, and calling them names.

"They said we were racists, and we were against them, and against their town, and against San Francisco," said Parker Wilson with the Bay Area National Anarchists. "What they were saying, they said we need to get out and called us racists, and that we need to go home. And then they just attacked my friends and me."Those arrested will likely be charged with felony assault and robbery. In the meantime, the rest of the rally got vocal but not physical. Emotions divided the street in front of city hall at Civic Plaza. There were those who support Arizona's immigration law and those who do not.It was the focus of this May Day, commonly known as "International Workers Day."

"We hope with this march they hear us and get something done," Ramon Hernandez with Liuna Local told ABC7.Similar rallies took place over the nation Saturday. Immigrants' rights groups hope the Arizona law, which was amended Friday night, will be over turned. The updated version makes racial profiling illegal and an officer can question an immigrant's status only after that person is stopped for another crime and not just because he or she looks suspicious.

"I don't think it's going to stop law enforcement from stopping anybody who looks like an immigrant or has the color brown," said San Francisco resident Erle Woo.Francisco Perez is in the U.S. illegally and worries that Arizona's law could spread to California.

"I think it should stop completely," he said.As hundreds of people marched through the Mission with their message, a group of Minutemen waited for them at Civic Center Plaza with different message."Immigrants are draining our welfare system. They are draining our school system, the judicial system," Elizabeth Kelly with Golden Gate Minutemen told ABC7.

They support legal immigration."Nobody is trying to make this a Nazi police state or anything," said Minutemen member Steve Kemp. "That's not what it's about. What it's about is giving police the authority to be able to question people if they're in this country illegally."But, Andres Balkan of San Francisco believes, "Minute Men is a neo-Nazi organization."The Minutemen were dramatically out numbered. Police had to move their opponents back and tighten security. The Minutemen let their signs do the talking.Police say they had no other problems and no other arrests at the rally.At the height of the march in San Jose, the stream of people stretched for nearly ten blocks. Most of them were demanding that President Obama tackle immigration reform immediately.As in other locations, marchers in San Jose said that because of the events in Arizona, the usually-spirited May Day march was bigger and more energized.

"I think yeah, it helped a lot," said Karina Gudino. "Every year, people come but this year, even more I think, because of the Arizona law. They're all against it because it's really a racist law.""It's just really stupid, what is happening," Vicky Delarenal said. "I think this country is made of immigrants and I think again, we just need to keep fighting for this. That's why I'm here, just to support the people."In the East Bay, demonstrators at a May Day rally near the Fruitvale BART station said this year's event took on added significance because of the new Arizona law."We feel it's going to be racist and discriminatory to the immigrant population, particularly to the Latino population, but actually for all immigrants, because the undocumented population in this country comes from all over the globe," said protestor Lillian GaledoAbout 200 demonstrators also marched through Fremont in protest of the illegal immigration crackdown.People who oppose what is happening in Arizona are angry and loud, but they are in the minority. Polls show the majority of people in America support Arizona's new law.

source
People who are against illegal immigrants are being called racist? and some are saying that illegal immigrants are draining our school systems..... where do you stand? Some of the immigrants from California are afraid that CA might pass the same law if the current one is not abolished....Some people are even saying the multi million corporations are supporting illegals due to cheap labor...An estimate of number of Illegal Aliens in Country: 22 million.... of those 22 million 500 thousand are not Mexican.... Some are suggesting that white people go back to Europe where they came from since this is (Montezuma, Aztec, Anahuac, Tula) land they were here before white people showed up... Some are pointing out to the "Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo" which clearly shows that huge portion of U.S. land belonged to Mexico....thus its their land....As a result Mexico lost more than 500,000 square miles of land, 55% of its national territory...

live numbers

Last edited by blademaster (2010-05-02 13:05:58)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England
Why is the Mexican Cession at all relevant? It took place over 160 years ago.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Mekstizzle
WALKER
+3,611|6907|London, England
Also most Mexicans are descendent (maybe not wholly) of Euro Spaniards and such anyway, they don't realise they're as much part of this so called European invasion and settlement as the next guy
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6815|Global Command
I would be in favor of annexation of Mexico. Sending in The Marines and blowing the fuck out of the cartels.

The thing that really bugs is how radical their own immigration policy is, supposedly.

But, a failure of both countries seems inevitable at this point, and the poor canucks will be swept into the NAU with a wimper.

I suspect the trigger will be some sort of war with hugo that will jack gas prices up, coinciding with Iran taking on Iran. Who knows where it will all end. 2012 just happens to be looming. I could see election shenanigans that lead to shots being fired, here in the U.S.

I do think thing are boiling up, but I would point out that the mexicans seem to be the ones doing all the shooting right now. The feds have a choice and I do believe they are making it with their inaction, or outrageous actions. At some point it will either be addressed fairly in a manner that doesn't toss our sovereignty to the gutter, and makes things workable, manageable and as much as is sustainable. Or the shooting starts.
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California
I haven't read up on the subject at all. Can somebody give me a one sentence synopsis of this law please?
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England
Arizona passed a law allowing their police officers to check IDs and arrest anyone that can not produce an ID on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California

JohnG@lt wrote:

Arizona passed a law allowing their police officers to check IDs and arrest anyone that can not produce an ID on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
What's wrong with that? It seems like that should have always been there.

Sounds like a good way of finding some illegal immigrants. Just carry your ID on you, it's not a big deal having a 7x5cm card on you.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

-Sh1fty- wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Arizona passed a law allowing their police officers to check IDs and arrest anyone that can not produce an ID on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
What's wrong with that? It seems like that should have always been there.

Sounds like a good way of finding some illegal immigrants. Just carry your ID on you, it's not a big deal having a 7x5cm card on you.
No dude, the Arizona Legislature are the Fourth Reich
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California

JohnG@lt wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Arizona passed a law allowing their police officers to check IDs and arrest anyone that can not produce an ID on suspicion of being an illegal immigrant.
What's wrong with that? It seems like that should have always been there.

Sounds like a good way of finding some illegal immigrants. Just carry your ID on you, it's not a big deal having a 7x5cm card on you.
No dude, the Arizona Legislature are the Fourth Reich
Develop your reasoning behind that comment.
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

-Sh1fty- wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

What's wrong with that? It seems like that should have always been there.

Sounds like a good way of finding some illegal immigrants. Just carry your ID on you, it's not a big deal having a 7x5cm card on you.
No dude, the Arizona Legislature are the Fourth Reich
Develop your reasoning behind that comment.
The was profound. Stop being dense.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6280|Truthistan
Lot's of irrational people out there, and in here too.


We the people need secure borders and a sane immigration policy, but we don't need laws like Arizona's to do it.

We the people don't need to throw brown citizens under the bus to get at the illegals. The focus on the effect of the AZ law on illegals is irrelevant, who cares if their documents get checked and they get deported. But checking the documents of citizens is a whole other story. If you're white or you live outside of Arizona then your support for the law is utterly meaningless because you will never suffer the negative effects of its enforcement. So y'all should spare us the "I wouldn't mind if they checked my ID." If you fit into that category perhaps you should sit and ponder what life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is supposed to mean to ALL citizens.

As far as the illegals, we should be able to find a better way to deal with them that doesn't harm what its means to be a citizen. Now as far as a race war, if its a race war by brown citizens fighting a tyrannical law that subjugates them to second class citizen status, then it would be a war as justifiable as the war for independance because the goals of freedom and liberty ring true no matter what the skin color.

All citizens should lament the abomination birthed by the Arizona legislature. IMO its just more of that BS "us versus them" rhetoric where if you are a citizen who happens to look like them then too bad so sad for you.

So much for the singular identity of being an American.

Last edited by Diesel_dyk (2010-05-02 14:27:09)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina
There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California

Turquoise wrote:

There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
QFT
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

-Sh1fty- wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
QFT
Elaborate. Please.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

Kmarion wrote:

-Sh1fty- wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
QFT
Elaborate. Please.
Haha, you beat me
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6280|Truthistan

Turquoise wrote:

There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
I differ with you on that one.
I disagree that a persons rights should be left up to the discretionary powers of enforcement.
I would point out that this law will have a negative impact that will become the burden of citizens who look like illegals. That's why this law is wrong. This law is just more of that retarded us versus them rhetoric. Otherwise, why didn't the state crack down on the employers of illegals. The state could have done that and that would have made more sense.

No, there is something really wrong with this law and its the impact on brown citizens that both sides, the people who want to get at the illegals and those that support the illegals, want to ignore. Its nothing but an "us versus them" cry to get the base out on the upcoming election, and screw the negative impact on certain citizens.

If I were a brown citizen living in AZ right now I would be pissed because this little party is coming at my expense.
ATG
Banned
+5,233|6815|Global Command

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Lot's of irrational people out there, and in here too.


We the people need secure borders and a sane immigration policy, but we don't need laws like Arizona's to do it.

We the people don't need to throw brown citizens under the bus to get at the illegals. The focus on the effect of the AZ law on illegals is irrelevant, who cares if their documents get checked and they get deported. But checking the documents of citizens is a whole other story. If you're white or you live outside of Arizona then your support for the law is utterly meaningless because you will never suffer the negative effects of its enforcement. So y'all should spare us the "I wouldn't mind if they checked my ID." If you fit into that category perhaps you should sit and ponder what life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness is supposed to mean to ALL citizens.

As far as the illegals, we should be able to find a better way to deal with them that doesn't harm what its means to be a citizen. Now as far as a race war, if its a race war by brown citizens fighting a tyrannical law that subjugates them to second class citizen status, then it would be a war as justifiable as the war for independance because the goals of freedom and liberty ring true no matter what the skin color.

All citizens should lament the abomination birthed by the Arizona legislature. IMO its just more of that BS "us versus them" rhetoric where if you are a citizen who happens to look like them then too bad so sad for you.

So much for the singular identity of being an American.
Well, if I am standing next to a guy and I said, hey bud, did you hear about the attempted car bombing, and he said " I didn't hear a boot the booming mate " I would assume he was from Australia or Canada and I wouldn't mind his id being checked either.

Anybody using our services, like roads and schools and hospitals should be able to produce documents. Anybody of any color.


I want there to be a sane immigration policy, period.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

They have to have reasonable suspicion. Just like you have to have reasonable suspicion when you search a car for marijuana (odor etc). He looks brown won't hold up in court.. in fact, the officer making an arrest because of that will risk being reprimanded for it since it is still illegal to profile in AZ.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
I differ with you on that one.
I disagree that a persons rights should be left up to the discretionary powers of enforcement.
I would point out that this law will have a negative impact that will become the burden of citizens who look like illegals. That's why this law is wrong. This law is just more of that retarded us versus them rhetoric. Otherwise, why didn't the state crack down on the employers of illegals. The state could have done that and that would have made more sense.

No, there is something really wrong with this law and its the impact on brown citizens that both sides, the people who want to get at the illegals and those that support the illegals, want to ignore. Its nothing but an "us versus them" cry to get the base out on the upcoming election, and screw the negative impact on certain citizens.

If I were a brown citizen living in AZ right now I would be pissed because this little party is coming at my expense.
Admittedly, cracking down on employers of illegals must be done for any serious attempts at border security.

As a side note, many Latino citizens have come forward in support of this bill.

The way I see it though...

We're not going to seriously deal with illegals the way we should in the long run.  Eventually, we will give.  This is a numbers game.  Given current demographic trends, it's not going to be us vs. them much longer, because eventually, about a third of this country will be Latino already.  Depending on how things turn out over the next century, Latinos could eventually become about half of the population.

Regardless, this will cease to be a race issue soon enough, and when it does, people might be able to look at the facts and deal with things rationally, but unfortunately, by that point, it will probably be too late.

Illegals are likely to become a much larger portion of the population in the next two decades, and with things worsening in Mexico, more and more will come here just to escape what our southern neighbor is becoming.

Amnesty will eventually be given, and when it is, the flood will only worsen.
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

ATG wrote:

Anybody using our services, like roads and schools and hospitals should be able to produce documents. Anybody of any color.
Just like you have to do in Mexico eh?
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina

Kmarion wrote:

ATG wrote:

Anybody using our services, like roads and schools and hospitals should be able to produce documents. Anybody of any color.
Just like you have to do in Mexico eh?
Well, Mexico does a lot of interesting things to its illegals...

http://vdare.com/awall/060518_memo.htm
Diesel_dyk
Object in mirror will feel larger than it appears
+178|6280|Truthistan

Turquoise wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
I differ with you on that one.
I disagree that a persons rights should be left up to the discretionary powers of enforcement.
I would point out that this law will have a negative impact that will become the burden of citizens who look like illegals. That's why this law is wrong. This law is just more of that retarded us versus them rhetoric. Otherwise, why didn't the state crack down on the employers of illegals. The state could have done that and that would have made more sense.

No, there is something really wrong with this law and its the impact on brown citizens that both sides, the people who want to get at the illegals and those that support the illegals, want to ignore. Its nothing but an "us versus them" cry to get the base out on the upcoming election, and screw the negative impact on certain citizens.

If I were a brown citizen living in AZ right now I would be pissed because this little party is coming at my expense.
Admittedly, cracking down on employers of illegals must be done for any serious attempts at border security.

As a side note, many Latino citizens have come forward in support of this bill.

The way I see it though...

We're not going to seriously deal with illegals the way we should in the long run.  Eventually, we will give.  This is a numbers game.  Given current demographic trends, it's not going to be us vs. them much longer, because eventually, about a third of this country will be Latino already.  Depending on how things turn out over the next century, Latinos could eventually become about half of the population.

Regardless, this will cease to be a race issue soon enough, and when it does, people might be able to look at the facts and deal with things rationally, but unfortunately, by that point, it will probably be too late.

Illegals are likely to become a much larger portion of the population in the next two decades, and with things worsening in Mexico, more and more will come here just to escape what our southern neighbor is becoming.

Amnesty will eventually be given, and when it is, the flood will only worsen.
Yes, I can see why latino citizens would want to crack down on illegals, just like a lot of other citizens because illegals are competetors in the labor market and they depress wages. And I agree that Latinos are going to eventually take over the US by population, that's just demographics.

But that doesn't answer whether this law is a good, just or moral law. You can't throw some citizens under the bus to try and fix a problem. Let me put it another way:

All you need is drivers license? here are the probable outcomes
Number of non-illegal "looking" citizens within AZ asked to produce their license under this new law = 0%
Number of citizens outside of AZ asked to produce their license under this AZ law =0%
Number of illegal "looking" citizens asked to produce their license under this new law >0%

Its a bad law when the application of the law will place a burden on only some citizens based on how they happen to look.
Its a bad law, period. If people think its okay for others to bear the burden although all citizens are supposed to be equal, then it would appear that there is basic and fundamental problem concerning peoples' perception on what it means to be an American citizen. Its on that basis that I label this law as being irrational and one being based on divisive calls for an us versus them mentality.

Its also interesting that the Texas governor has rejected this law. http://www.star-telegram.com/2010/04/29 … n-law.html
blademaster
I'm moving to Brazil
+2,075|6931

Turquoise wrote:

Diesel_dyk wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

There's nothing wrong with AZ's new law.  The only thing that poses a problem is how it could be enforced.
I differ with you on that one.
I disagree that a persons rights should be left up to the discretionary powers of enforcement.
I would point out that this law will have a negative impact that will become the burden of citizens who look like illegals. That's why this law is wrong. This law is just more of that retarded us versus them rhetoric. Otherwise, why didn't the state crack down on the employers of illegals. The state could have done that and that would have made more sense.

No, there is something really wrong with this law and its the impact on brown citizens that both sides, the people who want to get at the illegals and those that support the illegals, want to ignore. Its nothing but an "us versus them" cry to get the base out on the upcoming election, and screw the negative impact on certain citizens.

If I were a brown citizen living in AZ right now I would be pissed because this little party is coming at my expense.
Admittedly, cracking down on employers of illegals must be done for any serious attempts at border security.

As a side note, many Latino citizens have come forward in support of this bill.

The way I see it though...

We're not going to seriously deal with illegals the way we should in the long run.  Eventually, we will give.  This is a numbers game.  Given current demographic trends, it's not going to be us vs. them much longer, because eventually, about a third of this country will be Latino already.  Depending on how things turn out over the next century, Latinos could eventually become about half of the population.

Regardless, this will cease to be a race issue soon enough, and when it does, people might be able to look at the facts and deal with things rationally, but unfortunately, by that point, it will probably be too late.

Illegals are likely to become a much larger portion of the population in the next two decades, and with things worsening in Mexico, more and more will come here just to escape what our southern neighbor is becoming.

Amnesty will eventually be given, and when it is, the flood will only worsen.
Well said Latinos are gonna become a majority of this country, maybe 50 years from now or so....also considering that white people always move out whenever Mexicans start moving in the neighborhood or same concept applies when black people start moving in.....will see how things pan out when Latinos become the majority in this country.... doubt things will turn out peacefully... another way to break people down and compartmentalize them... which is stupid... but I guess thats part of history and human nature...
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

Diesel_dyk wrote:

All you need is drivers license? here are the probable outcomes
Number of non-illegal "looking" citizens within AZ asked to produce their license under this new law = 0%
Number of citizens outside of AZ asked to produce their license under this AZ law =0%
Number of illegal "looking" citizens asked to produce their license under this new law >0%
Where does it say this? You are speculating.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

People opposed to this law are begging for an example of misuse. You know it. I know it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz

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