Still waiting on responses for like 3 of my posts/questions.
Andrew Sullivan wrote an article in Time about this.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic … -1,00.htmlThe iconic image of last week was in the Gaza Strip. It was of a Palestinian gunman astride the local office of the European Union. All the diplomatic staff had fled, tipped off ahead of time. The source of the militant's ire? A series of satirical cartoons originally published in Denmark. Yes, cartoons.
A Danish paper, a while back, had commissioned a set of cartoons depicting the fear that many writers and artists in Europe feel when dealing with the subject of Islam. To Western eyes, the cartoons were not in any way remarkable. In fact, they were rather tame. One showed Muhammad with his turban depicted as a bomb--not exactly a fresh image to describe Islamic terrorism. Another used a simple graphic device: it showed Muhammad surrounded by two women in full Muslim garb, their eyes peering out from an oblong space in their black chadors. And on Muhammad's face there was an oblong too, blacking out his eyes. The point was that Islam has a blind spot when it comes to women's freedom. Crude but powerful: exactly what a political cartoon is supposed to be.
The result was an astonishing uproar in the Muslim world, one of those revealing moments when the gulf between our world and theirs seems unbridgeable. Boycotts of European goods are in force; demonstrators in London held up signs proclaiming EXTERMINATE THOSE WHO MOCK ISLAM and BE PREPARED FOR THE REAL HOLOCAUST; the editor of the French newspaper France-Soir was fired for reprinting the drawings; Afghan President Hamid Karzai condemned the publication; and protesters set fire to the Danish and Norwegian embassies in Damascus. The Egyptian ambassador to Denmark expressed disbelief that the government would not prevent further reprinting. Freedom of the press, the Egyptian explained, "means the whole story will continue and that we are back to square one again. The government of Denmark has to do something to appease the Muslim world."
Excuse me? In fact, the opposite is the case. The Muslim world needs to do something to appease the West. Since Ayatullah Khomeini declared a death sentence against Salman Rushdie for how he depicted Muhammad in his book The Satanic Verses, Islamic radicals have been essentially threatening the free discussion of their religion and politics in the West. Rushdie escaped with his life. But Pim Fortuyn, a Dutch politician who stood up against Muslim immigrant hostility to equality for women and gays, was murdered on the street. Theo van Gogh, a Dutch filmmaker who offended strict Muslims, was killed thereafter. Several other Dutch politicians who have dared to criticize the intolerance of many Muslims live with police protection.
Muslim leaders say the cartoons are not just offensive. They're blasphemy--the mother of all offenses. That's because Islam forbids any visual depiction of the Prophet, even benign ones. Should non-Muslims respect this taboo? I see no reason why. You can respect a religion without honoring its taboos. I eat pork, and I'm not an anti-Semite. As a Catholic, I don't expect atheists to genuflect before an altar. If violating a taboo is necessary to illustrate a political point, then the call is an easy one. Freedom means learning to deal with being offended.
Blasphemy, after all, is commonplace in the West. In America, Christians have become accustomed to artists' offending their religious symbols. They can protest, and cut off public funding--but the right of the individual to say or depict offensive messages or symbols is not really in dispute. Blasphemy, moreover, is common in the Muslim world, and sanctioned by Arab governments. The Arab media run cartoons depicting Jews and the symbols of the Jewish faith with imagery indistinguishable from that used in the Third Reich. But I have yet to see Jews or Israelis threaten the lives of Muslims because of it.
And there is, of course, the other blasphemy. It occurred on Sept. 11, 2001, when fanatics murdered thousands of innocents in the name of Islam. Surely, nothing could be more blasphemous. So where were the Muslim boycotts of Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan after that horrifying event? Since 9/11 mosques have been bombed in Iraq by Islamic terrorists. Where was the rioting condemning attacks on the holiest of shrines? These double standards reveal something quite clear: this call for "sensitivity" is primarily a cover for intolerance of others and intimidation of free people.
Yes, there's no reason to offend people of any faith arbitrarily. We owe all faiths respect. But the Danish cartoons were not arbitrarily offensive. They were designed to reveal Islamic intolerance--and they have now done so, in abundance. The West's principles are clear enough. Tolerance? Yes. Faith? Absolutely. Freedom of speech? Nonnegotiable.
Can't say what Muslims look like because it's a religion not a race.DrunkFace wrote:
Still waiting on responses for like 3 of my posts/questions.
You can apply that to pretty much every religion.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Can't say what Muslims look like because it's a religion not a race.DrunkFace wrote:
Still waiting on responses for like 3 of my posts/questions.
beyond certain clothing that they wear.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Can't say what Muslims look like because it's a religion not a race.DrunkFace wrote:
Still waiting on responses for like 3 of my posts/questions.
or if you see a bomb strapped to their chest, you can take bets that they are a Muslim.ruisleipa wrote:
beyond certain clothing that they wear.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Can't say what Muslims look like because it's a religion not a race.DrunkFace wrote:
Still waiting on responses for like 3 of my posts/questions.
and if they're killing doctors outside abortion clinics you can bet they're Christian.
Naa only white people do that during Halloween. Real Muslims use cars.lowing wrote:
or if you see a bomb strapped to their chest, you can take bets that they are a Muslim.ruisleipa wrote:
beyond certain clothing that they wear.cpt.fass1 wrote:
Can't say what Muslims look like because it's a religion not a race.
very true. wanna compare "isolated" incidents now or numbers of extremists? Or how about extent of damage or deaths?ruisleipa wrote:
and if they're killing doctors outside abortion clinics you can bet they're Christian.
Last edited by lowing (2010-04-28 12:57:55)
Bottom line is that anyone who intends to do harm to an other human being for what ever reason is a criminal. Good people should be standing up against these and I will be drawing mohammed and posting it as my facebook picture as soon as I get around to it.
I won't join in on this drawing Mohammed thing, mostly because I think it'd make me look like a bit of a cock. That said, the laws of Islam are obviously only applicable to Muslims, so non-Muslims should be able to do whatever the fuck they want.
I'm merely pointing out the absurdity in your insistence at labelling muslims all terrorists and making out like no-one else ever does any bad stuff.lowing wrote:
very true. wanna compare "isolated" incidents now or numbers of extremists? Or how about extent of damage or deaths?ruisleipa wrote:
and if they're killing doctors outside abortion clinics you can bet they're Christian.
yawn.
SPeaking of "yawn" I never said all Muslims are terrorists, nor did I say "no one else ever does any bad stuff". So instead of making up an argument for you to attack, how about attacking what I do say?ruisleipa wrote:
I'm merely pointing out the absurdity in your insistence at labelling muslims all terrorists and making out like no-one else ever does any bad stuff.lowing wrote:
very true. wanna compare "isolated" incidents now or numbers of extremists? Or how about extent of damage or deaths?ruisleipa wrote:
and if they're killing doctors outside abortion clinics you can bet they're Christian.
yawn.
oh sorry your constant, boring, focus on Islam makes it hard to realise you have any concept of anyone else doing bad stuff, but then like your weird ideas about the IRA you seem to think that no matter what anyone else does there's never any parallel with evil muslims.lowing wrote:
I never said all Muslims are terrorists, nor did I say "no one else ever does any bad stuff".
Don't forget you did say that anyone wearing muslim clothing looks like a terrorist, and although I never said you DID say 'no one else does any bad stuff' you know that there's no way in hell I'ma gonna go back through all your tripe in a dozen threads pointing out every single reference where you've mentioned muslims being terrorists and NOT ONCE have I read you mention them in anything but negative ways.
So, how about you try understanding your own fear (yeah you're not afraid blah blah) and misconception of Islam and the world outside rather than putting forward the same old hackneyed arguments and then asking people to quote you.
If it is so boring, then do not respond to what I post. If you wanna make a thread about the IRA fine, I might post, if you wanna make a thread about the crusades, fine I might post, however, it just so happens I have a very strong negative opinion about Islam, and it is justified. So I will post accordingly.ruisleipa wrote:
oh sorry your constant, boring, focus on Islam makes it hard to realise you have any concept of anyone else doing bad stuff, but then like your weird ideas about the IRA you seem to think that no matter what anyone else does there's never any parallel with evil muslims.lowing wrote:
I never said all Muslims are terrorists, nor did I say "no one else ever does any bad stuff".
Don't forget you did say that anyone wearing muslim clothing looks like a terrorist, and although I never said you DID say 'no one else does any bad stuff' you know that there's no way in hell I'ma gonna go back through all your tripe in a dozen threads pointing out every single reference where you've mentioned muslims being terrorists and NOT ONCE have I read you mention them in anything but negative ways.
So, how about you try understanding your own fear (yeah you're not afraid blah blah) and misconception of Islam and the world outside rather than putting forward the same old hackneyed arguments and then asking people to quote you.
Did I say Muslims look like terrorists, or was it terrorists look like Muslims? Either way is correct since the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.
I do not feel I have a misconception of Islam, I read what their laws are about, who they hero worship, and what actions are committed in its name and I feel comfortable in my opinion.
I've had my dose of comedy for the daylowing wrote:
I do not feel I have a misconception of Islam
So you have actually read and studied the Koran with an Arabic scholar translating for you?I read what their laws are about
Blogs don't count...
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
~ Richard Feynman
Do you have the numbers?lowing wrote:
very true. wanna compare "isolated" incidents now or numbers of extremists? Or how about extent of damage or deaths?ruisleipa wrote:
and if they're killing doctors outside abortion clinics you can bet they're Christian.
You make it sound like extreme Christians are hard to find ... and you speak of Muslims like they're all extremists ...
And I have a question for you lowing: Have you ever thought about what makes so many extremists, the reason behind their extreme activity, are some people born with an evil preference or is it formed by the enviroment, if the enviroment is your answer then what made the enviroment what it is and before answering that you may also consider history as part of that ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
wy the fuck do you keep going o about the fuckin crusades cos I've never mentioned it. Direct that shit at Uzique. Unless you wanna start talking about hoew the US administration referred to their invasionof Iraq as...a crusade. Fuckin belliegerent Christian fucks.lowing wrote:
if you wanna make a thread about the crusades,
no shit?lowing wrote:
I have a very strong negative opinion about Islam
fixed.lowing wrote:
and it is justified based on prejudice, crappy media and blog sources, no real idea of what's happening in the world, bigotry and fear. So I will post accordingly.
you said muslims look like terrorists. And of course it matters. There's a difference isn't there.lowing wrote:
Did I say Muslims look like terrorists, or was it terrorists look like Muslims? Either way is correct since the vast majority of terrorists are Muslims.
but actually, lmfao too funny..a couple of posts ago you ask me where you say all (oh sorry, 'the vast majority', so what, 90%? 95%, what? Do you have ANY evidence for that? NO YOU DON'T. You have your own prejudices. That's it.) terrorists are muslims and then you just say it, as well as saying all muslims look like terrorists and vice versa. Wow you're really pulling out all the stops now. Cheers for that.
of course you feel comfortable because you have no idea what you're talking about beyond those crappy things you base your views on as listed above.lowing wrote:
I do not feel I have a misconception of Islam, I read what their laws are about, who they hero worship, and what actions are committed in its name and I feel comfortable in my opinion.
The funny thing is you are the only one not to see it.
Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-04-28 23:34:35)
How many muslims are there in Finland? When was the last time muslim terrorist attacked Finland?
In 1999 they estimanted 20,000. more now surely.Marlo Stanfield wrote:
How many muslims are there in Finland? When was the last time muslim terrorist attacked Finland?
And as far as I know no muslim terrorist has ever attacked Finland. Why?
It's just kinda funny how you're breaching tolerance towards them and your country is 99% white and 99% non-muslim.
0.2% (24 000) of our population are muslims compared to 0.8% (2 454 000) in the US. I gave you a percentage, because considering the vast difference in tot. population size, the question would be stupid. In Europe, 5.2% (or 38 000 000) people are muslims.Marlo Stanfield wrote:
How many muslims are there in Finland? When was the last time muslim terrorist attacked Finland?
And to answer your second question, never.
How is this relevant?
I need around tree fiddy.
why is that funny and what does it have to do with being tolerant?Marlo Stanfield wrote:
It's just kinda funny how you're breaching tolerance towards them and your country is 99% white and 99% non-muslim.
I lived in the UK for 21 years, mainly in London and Leeds, and there're plenty of ethnic-type folk there. Any better?
Germany has roughly 5% Muslims and I can't remember them ever staging any terrorist attacks in Germany ... I find that very strange that a violent religion like Islam haven't left Germany in ruins long ago ... very strange indeed ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................