German Muslim minister designate to ban crucifix in schools

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German Muslim minister designate to ban crucifix in schools

2010-04-28 06:41:05

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6756

i dont think israel-palestine will even be solved in the next century/generation, jord, let alone the complete death of organized religion.

as long as humans have spiritual or transcendent notions, there will be some exploitative wankers organizing structures of power based upon it.

and i think it'll be a long LONG time before our consciousness evolves to keep up with the empirical understandings that we have of our world now. i think really our human psychology is still several centuries behind the advancements in (post-) positivist understandings that we have. it's like our brain still has a little corner that is weak to the tendency to attribute the unknown to some greater force. the massive developments in understanding and intelligence still has us in a stage of future-shock, methinks.

tl;dr: more like i wish i was born 50 centuries later when we're at the next level of being.

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-04-28 06:45:27

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

jord wrote:
I wish I was born 50 years later when religion has all but fizzled out.

Think you'd be muslim actually

I disagree with the negativity, Israel-Palestine could be 'solved' in six months if the world had a mind to do it.

The majority of people are not religious extremists, its the 5-10% who are holding the rest of us to ransom.

Fuck Israel

2010-04-28 06:47:28

jord: Member; +2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

I'm not saying it will be completely dead (we can dream), but fizzled out significantly. Atheism/agnostism has gotta be the largest growing preferance, whether people admit it or not. At least in the educated world anyway. I don't think well be here as a species in 50 centuries either.

On a side not israel palestine situation relates to this debate. Anyone with a mediocum of intellect knows both are as fucking bad as each other, much like islam/christianity.

Last edited by jord (2010-04-28 06:48:48)

2010-04-28 06:48:25

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +796|6970|United States of America

jord wrote:
I wish I was born 50 years later when religion has all but fizzled out.

There's far more to religion than just the "I worship ______" statement. There's a whole lot of philosophical involved, and I look forward to the day when people realize religion goes deeper than theism.

2010-04-28 06:49:00

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6391|eXtreme to the maX

Not really, its relatively recently the islamics infiltrated Palestine.

Fuck Israel

2010-04-28 06:52:49

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6960|Canberra, AUS

jord wrote:
I'm not saying it will be completely dead (we can dream), but fizzled out significantly. Atheism/agnostism has gotta be the largest growing preferance, whether people admit it or not. At least in the educated world anyway. I don't think well be here as a species in 50 centuries either.

On a side not israel palestine situation relates to this debate. Anyone with a mediocum of intellect knows both are as fucking bad as each other, much like islam/christianity.

maybe not here

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-04-28 06:56:32

ruisleipa: Member; +149|6508|teh FIN-land

lowing wrote:
Uhhhh nope I didn't make that comparison. I quoted a paragraph in the OP and his fuckin' name was not mentioned in it, only the laws of some fucked up Islamic countries with some fucked up Islamic law. So try again.

you're losing it.

You made exactly the same comparison. Uzique pointed out Koresh etc as not being shining examples of Chirstianity. You asked how many people did they blow up? Whatever the answer, it can't be less than the zero the guy in the OP has blown up. Your attempt to make Islam and Muslims the world over to be the most common evildoers in the world, all terrorists bent on the destruction of blah blah fails again.

2010-04-28 07:02:13

Uzique: dasein.; +2,865|6756

DesertFox- wrote:
jord wrote:
I wish I was born 50 years later when religion has all but fizzled out.
There's far more to religion than just the "I worship ______" statement. There's a whole lot of philosophical involved, and I look forward to the day when people realize religion goes deeper than theism.

that's my point about our weakness in current human consciousness, the 'spiritual gene', the part of our brain that is just susceptible to the sensations of awe and sublimity. that's the seed that has to disappear, otherwise organized religion will always grow from it, in the most cynical, self-interested and avaricious forms.

also, i find some difficulty in the notion that atheism and agnosticism are growing because of 'increased education'. actually i think they're growing because of increased apathy and poorer levels of education; the majority of non-church going westerners don't go because of a conscious, intellectual decision to reject notions of 'God', but rather because they can't be fucking assed and there's better things to watch on television. many of our best educated intellectuals, thinkers, scientists and philosophers have been religious- which i think is significant and relevant to my first paragraph.

slightly off-topic, i know, but interesting nevertheless...

_{libertarian benefit collector - anti-academic super-intellectual}. _{http://mixlr.com/the-little-phrase/}

2010-04-28 07:42:52

mr.hrundi: Wurstwassereis; +68|6723|Germany

I agree with her. If I wanted my kid to be educated under a religious symbol, I'd send it to a private school.

We had crucifixes in primary school and were forced to pray there, too.

Who knows, if this would have been different, I might even be a Christian today.

2010-04-28 07:56:14

mikkel: Member; +383|6887

lowing wrote:
Beduin wrote:
lowing wrote:

Western schools should be free of Islam, nothing wrong with an historically Christian nation being a Christian nation.
We are talking about religious symbols
and why should a Christian nation be forced to remove its Christian symbols again?

Wait, who is forcing who?

2010-04-28 08:18:01

DesertFox-: The very model of a modern major general; +796|6970|United States of America

Uzique wrote:
DesertFox- wrote:
jord wrote:
I wish I was born 50 years later when religion has all but fizzled out.
There's far more to religion than just the "I worship ______" statement. There's a whole lot of philosophical involved, and I look forward to the day when people realize religion goes deeper than theism.
that's my point about our weakness in current human consciousness, the 'spiritual gene', the part of our brain that is just susceptible to the sensations of awe and sublimity. that's the seed that has to disappear, otherwise organized religion will always grow from it, in the most cynical, self-interested and avaricious forms.

also, i find some difficulty in the notion that atheism and agnosticism are growing because of 'increased education'. actually i think they're growing because of increased apathy and poorer levels of education; the majority of non-church going westerners don't go because of a conscious, intellectual decision to reject notions of 'God', but rather because they can't be fucking assed and there's better things to watch on television. many of our best educated intellectuals, thinkers, scientists and philosophers have been religious- which i think is significant and relevant to my first paragraph.

slightly off-topic, i know, but interesting nevertheless...

I agree quite a bit. We've spent a great deal of time the last thousand years focusing on the basics of what we have watered down religion to be. We have had a great deal of problems stemming from all these borderline-religious issues that have become mainstream, but have left exploring the message of it alone. Perhaps the closest society has come to examining the messages is the "What Would Jesus Do?" bracelets and shit. We're stuck in a rut, basically.
I find truth in this second part as well. I've not gone to church on a regular basis for years now, and failed to even go for Easter this past year. I'm sure I have some cognitive dissonance to justify it as being unnecessary, but I'm certain my laziness has a large role.

2010-04-28 08:26:11

cpt.fass1: The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n; +329|6981|NJ

Dilbert_X wrote:
lowing wrote:
DrunkFace wrote:
Would this have been news had the minister not been Muslim?
Yeah because shit like this is news here. A Christian nation, the US, being forced to take down religious based symbols. Islam having nothing to do with it.
The US is not a christian nation.

OP: Good for him, religion is BS and has no place in public.

WE ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. Nor should we ever be, I don't want leaders that are devout having access to bring the Apocalypse to truth. That is the scariest thing ever, what all real people see as scary some of our leaders would see as a god send.

Also this is one of the reasons we have to keep Middle East countries from having weapons of mass destruction. Any religious groups or fanatics should not have the capability to destroy the world.

Also if they do remove the cross they need to instill the no headscarves. NO religious stuff should be in the class room, for it is not progressive.

2010-04-28 08:30:36

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7002

cpt.fass1 wrote:
Dilbert_X wrote:
lowing wrote:

Yeah because shit like this is news here. A Christian nation, the US, being forced to take down religious based symbols. Islam having nothing to do with it.
The US is not a christian nation.

OP: Good for him, religion is BS and has no place in public.
WE ARE NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. Nor should we ever be, I don't want leaders that are devout having access to bring the Apocalypse to truth. That is the scariest thing ever, what all real people see as scary some of our leaders would see as a god send.

Also this is one of the reasons we have to keep Middle East countries from having weapons of mass destruction. Any religious groups or fanatics should not have the capability to destroy the world.

Also if they do remove the cross they need to instill the no headscarves. NO religious stuff should be in the class room, for it is not progressive.

Thomas Jefferson made fun of the bible.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2010-04-28 09:26:17

cl4u53w1t2: Salon-Bolschewist; +269|6758|Kakanien

she is a secularist thinking modern muslim and said she wants to ban all religious symbols from schools, including head scarves etc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2oh3h3DvY0

2010-04-28 11:11:33

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6937|USA

ruisleipa wrote:
lowing wrote:
Uhhhh nope I didn't make that comparison. I quoted a paragraph in the OP and his fuckin' name was not mentioned in it, only the laws of some fucked up Islamic countries with some fucked up Islamic law. So try again.
you're losing it.

You made exactly the same comparison. Uzique pointed out Koresh etc as not being shining examples of Chirstianity. You asked how many people did they blow up? Whatever the answer, it can't be less than the zero the guy in the OP has blown up. Your attempt to make Islam and Muslims the world over to be the most common evildoers in the world, all terrorists bent on the destruction of blah blah fails again.

No you are losing it, I made a comment about ISLAM not the guy in the OP. I did this while QUOTING EXACTLY the paragraph I was referencing.

2010-04-28 11:12:36

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6937|USA

mikkel wrote:
lowing wrote:
Beduin wrote:
We are talking about religious symbols
and why should a Christian nation be forced to remove its Christian symbols again?
Wait, who is forcing who?

Might wanna read the OP before posting.

2010-04-28 11:45:11

mikkel: Member; +383|6887

lowing wrote:
mikkel wrote:
lowing wrote:

and why should a Christian nation be forced to remove its Christian symbols again?
Wait, who is forcing who?
Might wanna read the OP before posting.

I did, and as far as I can tell, it concerns an elected official uttering her opinion on the matter of religious symbols in public schools. I'm not finding anything to suggest that anyone is forcing anyone to do anything.

2010-04-28 11:51:17

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6937|USA

mikkel wrote:
lowing wrote:
mikkel wrote:

Wait, who is forcing who?
Might wanna read the OP before posting.
I did, and as far as I can tell, it concerns an elected official uttering her opinion on the matter of religious symbols in public schools. I'm not finding anything to suggest that anyone is forcing anyone to do anything.

Ok I will wait until she gets her way. Can I say it would appear she would force a ban given the proper backing? So put away your scalpel no need to dissect anymore.

2010-04-28 12:08:32

Nordemus: BC2 plat: CG, GL, M60, Mortar, Knife; +60|6283

How can he be a Muslim when he is in the Christian Democratic Union?

2010-04-28 12:13:09

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6937|USA

Nordemus wrote:
How can he be a Muslim when he is in the Christian Democratic Union?

dunno, I never said anyone was Muslim or Christian, I speak of the attempt or the opinion itself.

2010-04-28 14:20:50

cl4u53w1t2: Salon-Bolschewist; +269|6758|Kakanien

Nordemus wrote:
How can he be a Muslim when he is in the Christian Democratic Union?

she is a muslim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2oh3h3DvY0

2010-04-28 14:25:02

unnamednewbie13: Moderator; +2,056|7057|PNW

I agree with this Muslim guy/[edit:gal; whatever]. As long as there's bans against one religion's visibility, there might as well be bans against all per dress code. Keep your cross under your shirt.

What I don't agree with is banning voluntary student prayer meets.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2010-04-28 14:25:31)

2010-04-28 14:49:30

globefish23: sophisticated slacker; +334|6609|Graz, Austria

The minister is a muslim woman in Germany's conservative party.
She stated her opinion that religious symbols should be removed from public schools, basically the separation of church and state.
This includes all symbols, including head scarfs of her own religion.

I have no clue why lowing drags the USA into this discussion, when everything happens in Germany.
In Germany, church and state have been separated since 1919, so there is no state religion.
Since public schools are run by the state, it makes only sense to keep out religion of them.

2010-04-28 14:52:18

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6907|London, England

lowing wrote:
mikkel wrote:
lowing wrote:
Might wanna read the OP before posting.
I did, and as far as I can tell, it concerns an elected official uttering her opinion on the matter of religious symbols in public schools. I'm not finding anything to suggest that anyone is forcing anyone to do anything.
Ok I will wait until she gets her way. Can I say it would appear she would force a ban given the proper backing? So put away your scalpel no need to dissect anymore.

I find it hard to believe people would even be talking about this if an Atheist/Christian minister made these comments rather than Muslim one, especially you

This thread would be less about Saudi Arabia and more about the issue at hand if someone else said it, how are these people supposed to 'integrate and accept western society' as everyone says they aren't, when nobody gives them a break in the first place

You get the one's that do try to do that, but then people just say they're not true Muslims or they don't count, which is exactly what the extremists say about Muslims who don't follow what they say. People prefer to listen to what the extremists say because their views fit their agenda much more comfortably.

Last edited by Mekstizzle (2010-04-28 14:54:07)

2010-04-28 15:55:37

lowing: Banned; +1,662|6937|USA

Mekstizzle wrote:
lowing wrote:
mikkel wrote:

I did, and as far as I can tell, it concerns an elected official uttering her opinion on the matter of religious symbols in public schools. I'm not finding anything to suggest that anyone is forcing anyone to do anything.
Ok I will wait until she gets her way. Can I say it would appear she would force a ban given the proper backing? So put away your scalpel no need to dissect anymore.
I find it hard to believe people would even be talking about this if an Atheist/Christian minister made these comments rather than Muslim one, especially you

This thread would be less about Saudi Arabia and more about the issue at hand if someone else said it, how are these people supposed to 'integrate and accept western society' as everyone says they aren't, when nobody gives them a break in the first place

You get the one's that do try to do that, but then people just say they're not true Muslims or they don't count, which is exactly what the extremists say about Muslims who don't follow what they say. People prefer to listen to what the extremists say because their views fit their agenda much more comfortably.

Already shown Islam has nothing to do with it.

Athiests are trying this same shit here with the same resistance.

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jord wrote:

jord wrote:

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

Uzique wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

jord wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

DrunkFace wrote:

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

lowing wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

lowing wrote:

Beduin wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Nordemus wrote:

Nordemus wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

lowing wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

lowing wrote:

mikkel wrote:

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