Pages: 1 2

 

Poll

Should teachers enjoy tenure?

Yes35%35% - 6
No64%64% - 11
Total: 17
2010-04-15 06:06:17
13rin
Member
+977|6765
Tenure.  The coveted status in the education field.  It allows teachers to become just about untouchable and virtually bulletproof against firing.  Teachers have literally killed for it (or not getting it).  However, it is in jeopardy at the moment in Florida.  A bill is sitting on the desk of the Governor.  If he signs it, it becomes law.  If he doesn't sign it by Friday night, it will still become law.  But, I'm thinking he'll veto it -I have been wrong about this governor before though....

Just curious as to how ya'll feel on the subject.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2010-04-15 06:09:14
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA
They should enjoy seniority just like everyone else in the work place. but seniority does not mean untouchable, it means when all is equal your time in service counts toward your brenefits and your job security.


but untouchable? not hardly
2010-04-15 06:10:57
steelie34
pub hero!
+603|6667|the land of bourbon
it's funny how teachers are responsible for passing on the knowledge of humanity to younger generations, but instead we give the millions to rappers, baseball players, etc...
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png
2010-04-15 06:20:02
jord
Member
+2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

steelie34 wrote:

it's funny how teachers are responsible for passing on the knowledge of humanity to younger generations, but instead we give the millions to rappers, baseball players, etc...
I can't be bothered explaining this again fully, but those jobs make millions. Investment and such...
2010-04-15 06:22:04
steelie34
pub hero!
+603|6667|the land of bourbon

jord wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

it's funny how teachers are responsible for passing on the knowledge of humanity to younger generations, but instead we give the millions to rappers, baseball players, etc...
I can't be bothered explaining this again fully, but those jobs make millions. Investment and such...
true, but all of people involved, the agents, lawyers, investors generally went to school at some point...  except for the rappers, baseball players, etc...
https://bf3s.com/sigs/36e1d9e36ae924048a933db90fb05bb247fe315e.png
2010-04-15 06:25:26
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

jord wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

it's funny how teachers are responsible for passing on the knowledge of humanity to younger generations, but instead we give the millions to rappers, baseball players, etc...
I can't be bothered explaining this again fully, but those jobs make millions. Investment and such...
yes and before they could make their millions they all had to learn how to read and write....go figure.
2010-04-15 06:34:24
jord
Member
+2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.
There's a shit ton more teachers and there's a reason why. It's a lot harder to be a pro athlete than it is a teacher. Really what are you proposing we reverse pay and pay teachers millions? Can somebody sane explain this in detail because I hate typing on my phone.
2010-04-15 06:46:43
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

jord wrote:

There's a shit ton more teachers and there's a reason why. It's a lot harder to be a pro athlete than it is a teacher. Really what are you proposing we reverse pay and pay teachers millions? Can somebody sane explain this in detail because I hate typing on my phone.
and there is a shit ton more people that can read and write than their are teachers...what is your point?
millions no...but society should try to re-prioritize what it holds as important...A stripper makes 6 figures a year while a teacher on average maybe 40 0r 50 thousand.

a pro athelete makes what the market will bare. It is up to society to decide what he makes by deciding if we really are willing to spend 150 bucks for a night at the ball field.
2010-04-15 06:52:19
jord
Member
+2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:

There's a shit ton more teachers and there's a reason why. It's a lot harder to be a pro athlete than it is a teacher. Really what are you proposing we reverse pay and pay teachers millions? Can somebody sane explain this in detail because I hate typing on my phone.
and there is a shit ton more people that can read and write than their are teachers...what is your point?
millions no...but society should try to re-prioritize what it holds as important...A stripper makes 6 figures a year while a teacher on average maybe 40 0r 50 thousand.

a pro athelete makes what the market will bare. It is up to society to decide what he makes by deciding if we really are willing to spend 150 bucks for a night at the ball field.
My point is that it's hardly the most skilled job and many people are just waiting to fill in the slots. Supply and demand, surely you agree with that.

If we reprioritized to what's fair soldiers pay should be quadruplled. It won't be though, cause any fit man can do it.
2010-04-15 06:55:08
BLdw
..
+27|5457|M104 "Sombrero"

jord wrote:

There's a shit ton more teachers and there's a reason why. It's a lot harder to be a pro athlete than it is a teacher. Really what are you proposing we reverse pay and pay teachers millions? Can somebody sane explain this in detail because I hate typing on my phone.
Shouldn't we pay teacher more to encourage people to actually study more to become teachers?

Edit:

jord wrote:

My point is that it's hardly the most skilled job and many people are just waiting to fill in the slots. Supply and demand, surely you agree with that.
Why it is not skilled job? Because kids are so stupid?

Last edited by BLdw (2010-04-15 06:56:34)

2010-04-15 06:57:52
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:

There's a shit ton more teachers and there's a reason why. It's a lot harder to be a pro athlete than it is a teacher. Really what are you proposing we reverse pay and pay teachers millions? Can somebody sane explain this in detail because I hate typing on my phone.
and there is a shit ton more people that can read and write than their are teachers...what is your point?
millions no...but society should try to re-prioritize what it holds as important...A stripper makes 6 figures a year while a teacher on average maybe 40 0r 50 thousand.

a pro athelete makes what the market will bare. It is up to society to decide what he makes by deciding if we really are willing to spend 150 bucks for a night at the ball field.
My point is that it's hardly the most skilled job and many people are just waiting to fill in the slots. Supply and demand, surely you agree with that.

If we reprioritized to what's fair soldiers pay should be quadruplled. It won't be though, cause any fit man can do it.
To pay teachers better ensures good quality teachers to teach..surely you can agree with that.

you speak of supply and demand. well, I am saying society should demand a quality teacher over a homerun hitter, or a 3 point shooter.

Last edited by lowing (2010-04-15 07:01:04)

2010-04-15 06:59:51
-Sh1fty-
plundering yee booty
+510|5759|Ventura, California

DBBrinson1 wrote:

Tenure.
TL;DR
And above your tomb, the stars will belong to us.
2010-04-15 07:01:30
jord
Member
+2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:


and there is a shit ton more people that can read and write than their are teachers...what is your point?
millions no...but society should try to re-prioritize what it holds as important...A stripper makes 6 figures a year while a teacher on average maybe 40 0r 50 thousand.

a pro athelete makes what the market will bare. It is up to society to decide what he makes by deciding if we really are willing to spend 150 bucks for a night at the ball field.
My point is that it's hardly the most skilled job and many people are just waiting to fill in the slots. Supply and demand, surely you agree with that.

If we reprioritized to what's fair soldiers pay should be quadruplled. It won't be though, cause any fit man can do it.
To pay teachers better ensures good quality teachers to teach..surely you can agree with that.
To a certain extent. I can't really see teachers only commiting 70% effort because they're only paid 70% of what they think they should be getting paid. You go into teaching because you wanna teach, no?
2010-04-15 07:03:19
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

I have teacher friends and they seemed to be more concerned about the performance of the kids (test scores) directly affecting their pay. It sounds good on the surface, but when you think about it there is so much that impacts kids and their learning besides their teachers. Such as.. If a parent doesn't make their child do their homework. Parents don't make them go to school. Bad home environment. etc..
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-04-15 07:06:36
jord
Member
+2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

Kmarion wrote:

I have teacher friends and they seemed to be more concerned about the performance of the kids (test scores) directly affecting their pay. It sounds good on the surface, but when you think about it there is so much that impacts kids and their learning besides their teachers. Such as.. If a parent doesn't make their child do their homework. Parents don't make them go to school. Bad home environment. etc..
Pretty much. It depends on what level of education we're discussing. For example by high school kids should be ablw to make their own decisions on subjects and levels. What 15 year old wants to learn about religious education if they're determined to go into a trade or technical skill?
2010-04-15 07:08:01
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

DBBrinson1 wrote:

But, I'm thinking he'll veto it -I have been wrong about this governor before though....
I also think so. He's been talking with a lot of teachers and the impression I am getting is most of them are against it.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-04-15 07:09:01
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6960|Canberra, AUS

jord wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I have teacher friends and they seemed to be more concerned about the performance of the kids (test scores) directly affecting their pay. It sounds good on the surface, but when you think about it there is so much that impacts kids and their learning besides their teachers. Such as.. If a parent doesn't make their child do their homework. Parents don't make them go to school. Bad home environment. etc..
Pretty much. It depends on what level of education we're discussing. For example by high school kids should be ablw to make their own decisions on subjects and levels. What 15 year old wants to learn about religious education if they're determined to go into a trade or technical skill?
15 year olds don't make those decisions based on what they want to do in future, or what will be most useful, they make it based on minimizing effort required,
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-04-15 07:10:18
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

jord wrote:

lowing wrote:

jord wrote:


My point is that it's hardly the most skilled job and many people are just waiting to fill in the slots. Supply and demand, surely you agree with that.

If we reprioritized to what's fair soldiers pay should be quadruplled. It won't be though, cause any fit man can do it.
To pay teachers better ensures good quality teachers to teach..surely you can agree with that.
To a certain extent. I can't really see teachers only commiting 70% effort because they're only paid 70% of what they think they should be getting paid. You go into teaching because you wanna teach, no?
Nope you are correct, that is why society should step up and put them higher on a pedestal than we do..Certainly higher than a basketball player or a hockey player. but as it is society deems it more important to shoot goals or baskets than reading and writing.
2010-04-15 07:11:21
Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|6886|132 and Bush

jord wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I have teacher friends and they seemed to be more concerned about the performance of the kids (test scores) directly affecting their pay. It sounds good on the surface, but when you think about it there is so much that impacts kids and their learning besides their teachers. Such as.. If a parent doesn't make their child do their homework. Parents don't make them go to school. Bad home environment. etc..
Pretty much. It depends on what level of education we're discussing. For example by high school kids should be ablw to make their own decisions on subjects and levels. What 15 year old wants to learn about religious education if they're determined to go into a trade or technical skill?
By high school kids are engulfed in pubescent drama. Those are the years kids need to be encouraged to study more.. instead of chasing girls/boys.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
2010-04-15 07:14:28
jord
Member
+2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

Spark wrote:

jord wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I have teacher friends and they seemed to be more concerned about the performance of the kids (test scores) directly affecting their pay. It sounds good on the surface, but when you think about it there is so much that impacts kids and their learning besides their teachers. Such as.. If a parent doesn't make their child do their homework. Parents don't make them go to school. Bad home environment. etc..
Pretty much. It depends on what level of education we're discussing. For example by high school kids should be ablw to make their own decisions on subjects and levels. What 15 year old wants to learn about religious education if they're determined to go into a trade or technical skill?
15 year olds don't make those decisions based on what they want to do in future, or what will be most useful, they make it based on minimizing effort required,
Good point but i do believe 15 is the buffer age of maturity. At that age I was reponsible enough. Maybe with cultural differances your responsible age is slightly higher, I don't know.
2010-04-15 07:19:13
mcminty
Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.
+879|7007|Sydney, Australia

Kmarion wrote:

jord wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

I have teacher friends and they seemed to be more concerned about the performance of the kids (test scores) directly affecting their pay. It sounds good on the surface, but when you think about it there is so much that impacts kids and their learning besides their teachers. Such as.. If a parent doesn't make their child do their homework. Parents don't make them go to school. Bad home environment. etc..
Pretty much. It depends on what level of education we're discussing. For example by high school kids should be ablw to make their own decisions on subjects and levels. What 15 year old wants to learn about religious education if they're determined to go into a trade or technical skill?
By high school kids are engulfed in pubescent drama. Those are the years kids need to be encouraged to study more.. instead of chasing girls/boys.
This tbh.

As for the tenure thing, fuck it (at least in its current form). No one should be untouchable, especially if they end up becoming some shoddy teacher.
2010-04-15 07:28:10
13rin
Member
+977|6765

Kmarion wrote:

I have teacher friends and they seemed to be more concerned about the performance of the kids (test scores) directly affecting their pay. It sounds good on the surface, but when you think about it there is so much that impacts kids and their learning besides their teachers. Such as.. If a parent doesn't make their child do their homework. Parents don't make them go to school. Bad home environment. etc..
I've heard a lot on this guy here.  It is actually part of the previously described bill (SB 6).  We've had hundreds of pissed off teachers about the merit pay.  AP teacher stand to do well, while those inner city teachers are kinda screwed.  I know if I was a teacher -I'd do all I could to get the motivated kids in my class.

As to tenure?  I don't think it is a good thing.

Kman...  As a side note:  Senator Siplin's "baggy pants" law is making its way throught the process (3 year).  I hope it passes.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
2010-04-15 07:45:50
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England

steelie34 wrote:

jord wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

it's funny how teachers are responsible for passing on the knowledge of humanity to younger generations, but instead we give the millions to rappers, baseball players, etc...
I can't be bothered explaining this again fully, but those jobs make millions. Investment and such...
true, but all of people involved, the agents, lawyers, investors generally went to school at some point...  except for the rappers, baseball players, etc...
So stop buying their CD's, attending their concerts and/or ball games.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-04-15 07:59:03
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,006|5644|London, England
I have a lot of friends that are teachers (well, my gf does) and teachers around here are highly compensated, especially for working only 8 months a year. Six figure salaries, full pensions, cadillac health plans and a ton of vacation time. Most of them are potheads that wanted summers off. I'm sure they're good teachers, but helping kids succeed in life wasn't their primary reason for choosing the job. It was the fact that it's an easy profession and the benefits are ridiculous. It also allows them to easily have families in the future as well. Out of all the 9-5 jobs out there, I'd say teaching ranks near the bottom in the difficulty vs compensation department.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
2010-04-15 08:47:11
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

JohnG@lt wrote:

steelie34 wrote:

jord wrote:


I can't be bothered explaining this again fully, but those jobs make millions. Investment and such...
true, but all of people involved, the agents, lawyers, investors generally went to school at some point...  except for the rappers, baseball players, etc...
So stop buying their CD's, attending their concerts and/or ball games.
This is exactly correct. We are a society that has made a celebrity out of Kate Gosslin for nothing more than having 8 kids. She has accomplished nothing in life yet cashes in on our celebrity worship. This is not her fault it is our fault. The same goes for athletes as well.

 

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