Pages: 1 … 7 8 9 10 11 12

 

2010-04-11 23:57:12
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5332|Sydney

Mitch wrote:

Okay look.

The pro-freedom side of me says that its in my belief system that no substance should be outlawed by a government. It is your choice to put whatever substance you want into your body.

However, i can only see this causing a huge stir in the pot of society. Everyone will be smoking pot. 99.5% of the damn population. For those who simply don't like the drug, it would get pretty annoying. I don't want to generalize here either, but all the big potheads i know, are sleezy annoying lazy scummy people. And im not saying that everyone who smokes pot is, but it makes you wonder. 

Also, yes it would put drug dealers out of business, but it would open up a new market. I see such an enormous potential for making fuck loads of money if pot was legalized, and would certainly want to get in on that action.
1) 99.5% wouldn't be smoking, I guarantee the same amount that smoke it now would be smoking it, they just wouldn't get into shit for it.
2) I used to have a big pot habit (ok, massive pot habit) and quit about 7 years ago and haven't looked back. Tried it a few times since and didn't like it anymore. The friends I have who do smoke are very productive people, one is a single mother looking to buy her second house at the age of 27.
3) Your last statement makes absolutely no sense at all. On one hand you say it would put drug dealers out of the business and yet the very next sentence you say becoming a drug dealer yourself would make you a lot of money. Why would anyone want to buy pot if it was legal and therefore you could openly grow your own?
2010-04-12 06:00:16
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6805|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


99% = abusers and consumers of the drugs involved...   1% = rest of society
Sorry unacceptable to me, I assume no responsibility for the actions of others, as I blame no ne else for my one actions
You pay for prisons, even though I'm assuming you've never had to go to one.
Yup, I do, I pay enough, now utilize the prisons as they should be.

Also I am all for letting people have the freedom to party as they please, knowing full well their party is going to leave a mess. I do not feel it is up to me to stand by and clean up after them when their party is over. It really is as simple as that. Friends family, anyone who cares is free do clean after it. Those of us that never attended the party should not have to.
2010-04-12 16:40:10
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6559|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:


Sorry unacceptable to me, I assume no responsibility for the actions of others, as I blame no ne else for my one actions
You pay for prisons, even though I'm assuming you've never had to go to one.
Yup, I do, I pay enough, now utilize the prisons as they should be.

Also I am all for letting people have the freedom to party as they please, knowing full well their party is going to leave a mess. I do not feel it is up to me to stand by and clean up after them when their party is over. It really is as simple as that. Friends family, anyone who cares is free do clean after it. Those of us that never attended the party should not have to.
Well, I don't know if you noticed, but our prisons are crowded.  Granted, legalizing many drugs would empty cells of drug offenders, but this focus on imprisonment is part of what has allowed us to become the most incarcerated country in the world.

Surely, you can see the folly in this emphasis.
2010-04-12 23:25:55
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6376|teh FIN-land

Turquoise wrote:

Well, I don't know if you noticed, but our prisons are crowded.  Granted, legalizing many drugs would empty cells of drug offenders, but this focus on imprisonment is part of what has allowed us to become the most incarcerated country in the world.

Surely, you can see the folly in this emphasis.
If I remember lowing was arguing for building massive medieval-style prisons with no electricity just to keep all the druggies in.

Which is a bit weird cos earlier he was srguing for legalisation of all drugs, which would mean that there would be no reaso to put drug addicts in prison, if drugs were legal, so I think he's arguing for locking up people who haven't committed a crime  or letting drug addicts wander the streets in order to avoid minimal rehabd costs - an idea  so absurd it would costs society far more in the long run. Whether the money is spent on prisons or rehab his money will still be spent on 'subsidising stupidity' as he calls it, except he'd rather punish people whose lives have taken a wrong turn than help them. Says a lot tbh.

ruisleipa wrote:

Do you SERIOUSLY think buuilding massive prisons will  make society better?
Still didn't answer this question, but I suspect he doesn't CARE that society would be much worse off, or that the social and economic costs would be so high. He wants to punish people that he sees as less worthy, while keeping all his dollars for himself, yet at the same time approves of other behaviour which is much mroe harmful to society as a whole than the relatively low amounts of people on drugs - numbers which, incidentally, would potentially significantly increase if drugs were legalised, which lowing, of course, is actually in favour of!

It's so illogical it's amazing.
2010-04-13 06:11:08
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6805|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


You pay for prisons, even though I'm assuming you've never had to go to one.
Yup, I do, I pay enough, now utilize the prisons as they should be.

Also I am all for letting people have the freedom to party as they please, knowing full well their party is going to leave a mess. I do not feel it is up to me to stand by and clean up after them when their party is over. It really is as simple as that. Friends family, anyone who cares is free do clean after it. Those of us that never attended the party should not have to.
Well, I don't know if you noticed, but our prisons are crowded.  Granted, legalizing many drugs would empty cells of drug offenders, but this focus on imprisonment is part of what has allowed us to become the most incarcerated country in the world.

Surely, you can see the folly in this emphasis.
I am separating the 2 issues. If drugs were legalized then drug users are not criminals and thus not sent to prison. Only true criminals are then sent prison and fuck them there. My point with the drug users is, they do not want society to intervene with their drug use. Fine. In return I should not have to intervene with their recovery. pretty simple really
2010-04-13 06:12:09
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6828|Canberra, AUS

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:


Yup, I do, I pay enough, now utilize the prisons as they should be.

Also I am all for letting people have the freedom to party as they please, knowing full well their party is going to leave a mess. I do not feel it is up to me to stand by and clean up after them when their party is over. It really is as simple as that. Friends family, anyone who cares is free do clean after it. Those of us that never attended the party should not have to.
Well, I don't know if you noticed, but our prisons are crowded.  Granted, legalizing many drugs would empty cells of drug offenders, but this focus on imprisonment is part of what has allowed us to become the most incarcerated country in the world.

Surely, you can see the folly in this emphasis.
I am separating the 2 issues. If drugs were legalized then drug users are not criminals and thus not sent to prison. Only true criminals are then sent prison and fuck them there. My point with the drug users is, they do not want society to intervene with their drug use. Fine. In return I should not have to intervene with their recovery. pretty simple really
And you are okay with the inevitable practical consequences of this?
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-04-13 06:16:02
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6805|USA

Spark wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Well, I don't know if you noticed, but our prisons are crowded.  Granted, legalizing many drugs would empty cells of drug offenders, but this focus on imprisonment is part of what has allowed us to become the most incarcerated country in the world.

Surely, you can see the folly in this emphasis.
I am separating the 2 issues. If drugs were legalized then drug users are not criminals and thus not sent to prison. Only true criminals are then sent prison and fuck them there. My point with the drug users is, they do not want society to intervene with their drug use. Fine. In return I should not have to intervene with their recovery. pretty simple really
And you are okay with the inevitable practical consequences of this?
IF you are not okay with letting drug users do onto themselves what they will, then you should not be okay with making it legal for them to do so.

I want legalized drugs. I also want those that assume that responsibility of using them to actually be held responsible. Why the hell is that such a crazy notion to you?
2010-04-13 06:22:26
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|6828|Canberra, AUS

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:

lowing wrote:


I am separating the 2 issues. If drugs were legalized then drug users are not criminals and thus not sent to prison. Only true criminals are then sent prison and fuck them there. My point with the drug users is, they do not want society to intervene with their drug use. Fine. In return I should not have to intervene with their recovery. pretty simple really
And you are okay with the inevitable practical consequences of this?
IF you are not okay with letting drug users do onto themselves what they will, then you should not be okay with making it legal for them to do so.

I want legalized drugs. I also want those that assume that responsibility of using them to actually be held responsible. Why the hell is that such a crazy notion to you?
Where did I say that it was a crazy notion? I asked if you were okay with the consequences of not rehabilitating drug users.
The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
2010-04-13 06:32:44
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,813|6260|eXtreme to the maX
The current people in prison for drug crimes are OK with committing crimes, legalising one drug is unlikely to change their fundamental behaviour - they'll still be sloping brow stagecoach-tilters.

Last edited by Dilbert_X (2010-04-13 06:33:32)

Русский военный корабль, иди на хуй!
2010-04-13 09:13:51
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6805|USA

Spark wrote:

lowing wrote:

Spark wrote:


And you are okay with the inevitable practical consequences of this?
IF you are not okay with letting drug users do onto themselves what they will, then you should not be okay with making it legal for them to do so.

I want legalized drugs. I also want those that assume that responsibility of using them to actually be held responsible. Why the hell is that such a crazy notion to you?
Where did I say that it was a crazy notion? I asked if you were okay with the consequences of not rehabilitating drug users.
no you are asking me if it is okay to rehab drug users after I tell them it is okay to be drug users, and the answer is no. I m not assuming responsibility for tha actions of others
2010-04-13 10:34:34
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5332|Sydney
Drugs shouldn't be legalised, but they should be decriminalised.
What's the point in sending someone to prison for months or even years for doing drugs? How is that a benefit to society?
Putting in them into rehabilitation programs is far more beneficial to the user towards becoming a productive member of society and is MUCH more cost effective to the tax payer, especially in the long run.

Last edited by Jaekus (2010-04-13 10:35:34)

2010-04-13 10:55:41
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6929|Moscow, Russia

Jaekus wrote:

Drugs shouldn't be legalised, but they should be decriminalised.
What's the point in sending someone to prison for months or even years for doing drugs? How is that a benefit to society?
then make it a benefit. let the fucktards do usefull stuff - repair the roads and smthing like that. give them a choice - a month in therapy and half a year of felling wood or several years in prison. throw the bastards in the water and see how many of them would swim. and those who won't - let them rot.
if i agree with lowing on anything is that you are too kind to your criminals - they are a danger to the society and should be treated as such.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2010-04-13 10:58:30
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|5391|Cleveland, Ohio
does this mean i will stop seeing those stupid ass 420 tags in video games?
2010-04-13 11:24:22
BLdw
..
+27|5325|M104 "Sombrero"

11 Bravo wrote:

does this mean i will stop seeing those stupid ass 420 tags in video games?
Yep. They will start using *420, or ^420's.
2010-04-13 15:16:11
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6559|North Carolina

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Yup, I do, I pay enough, now utilize the prisons as they should be.

Also I am all for letting people have the freedom to party as they please, knowing full well their party is going to leave a mess. I do not feel it is up to me to stand by and clean up after them when their party is over. It really is as simple as that. Friends family, anyone who cares is free do clean after it. Those of us that never attended the party should not have to.
Well, I don't know if you noticed, but our prisons are crowded.  Granted, legalizing many drugs would empty cells of drug offenders, but this focus on imprisonment is part of what has allowed us to become the most incarcerated country in the world.

Surely, you can see the folly in this emphasis.
I am separating the 2 issues. If drugs were legalized then drug users are not criminals and thus not sent to prison. Only true criminals are then sent prison and fuck them there. My point with the drug users is, they do not want society to intervene with their drug use. Fine. In return I should not have to intervene with their recovery. pretty simple really
But what about the addicts that haven't done anything criminal yet?

Dilbert_X wrote:

The current people in prison for drug crimes are OK with committing crimes, legalising one drug is unlikely to change their fundamental behaviour - they'll still be sloping brow stagecoach-tilters.
I really hope you're being sarcastic.

Last edited by Turquoise (2010-04-13 15:16:52)

2010-04-13 16:52:14
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6805|USA

Turquoise wrote:

lowing wrote:

Turquoise wrote:


Well, I don't know if you noticed, but our prisons are crowded.  Granted, legalizing many drugs would empty cells of drug offenders, but this focus on imprisonment is part of what has allowed us to become the most incarcerated country in the world.

Surely, you can see the folly in this emphasis.
I am separating the 2 issues. If drugs were legalized then drug users are not criminals and thus not sent to prison. Only true criminals are then sent prison and fuck them there. My point with the drug users is, they do not want society to intervene with their drug use. Fine. In return I should not have to intervene with their recovery. pretty simple really
But what about the addicts that haven't done anything criminal yet?

Dilbert_X wrote:

The current people in prison for drug crimes are OK with committing crimes, legalising one drug is unlikely to change their fundamental behaviour - they'll still be sloping brow stagecoach-tilters.
I really hope you're being sarcastic.
What about them? They are living by the decisons they make, it is not like ya don't know what drugs are when you take them.. THey are living by their choice, why should I be forced to pay for that choice?
2010-04-13 20:16:52
Jaekus
I'm the matchstick that you'll never lose
+957|5332|Sydney

Shahter wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Drugs shouldn't be legalised, but they should be decriminalised.
What's the point in sending someone to prison for months or even years for doing drugs? How is that a benefit to society?
then make it a benefit. let the fucktards do usefull stuff - repair the roads and smthing like that. give them a choice - a month in therapy and half a year of felling wood or several years in prison. throw the bastards in the water and see how many of them would swim. and those who won't - let them rot.
if i agree with lowing on anything is that you are too kind to your criminals - they are a danger to the society and should be treated as such.
1) You're completely stereotyping the argument into addiction and people with nothing else in their lives. The fact remains that out of all the people that use drugs, these people fall into the small minority.
2) Imposing your values upon people who have a problem such as addiction never really works in the long term.
3) You're unlikely to change your mind or want any education on the subject seeing as you feel fully justified in your narrow minded view, so what's the fucking point in me trying?
2010-04-13 20:52:51
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6696|Texas - Bigger than France

lowing wrote:

What about them? They are living by the decisons they make, it is not like ya don't know what drugs are when you take them.. THey are living by their choice, why should I be forced to pay for that choice?
So true.  But they get out no?

So what happens when they get out?  More crime.

I'm saying you either don't let em out or you fix them better.

I think currently both are in effect, and both are ineffective
2010-04-13 21:27:21
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6805|USA

Pug wrote:

lowing wrote:

What about them? They are living by the decisons they make, it is not like ya don't know what drugs are when you take them.. THey are living by their choice, why should I be forced to pay for that choice?
So true.  But they get out no?

So what happens when they get out?  More crime.

I'm saying you either don't let em out or you fix them better.

I think currently both are in effect, and both are ineffective
If drugs were legal there would be no prison time for doing them. My comments go toward rehab
2010-04-13 21:55:58
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6696|Texas - Bigger than France
Ok, then you are absolutely right.  No one pays for AA right now, and I don't think alcoholism is a legitimate health expense covered by insurance...  So rehab isn't currently covered, is someone saying it should be?

Sorry.  I haven't read much in this thread.
2010-04-14 00:55:21
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6929|Moscow, Russia

Jaekus wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Jaekus wrote:

Drugs shouldn't be legalised, but they should be decriminalised.
What's the point in sending someone to prison for months or even years for doing drugs? How is that a benefit to society?
then make it a benefit. let the fucktards do usefull stuff - repair the roads and smthing like that. give them a choice - a month in therapy and half a year of felling wood or several years in prison. throw the bastards in the water and see how many of them would swim. and those who won't - let them rot.
if i agree with lowing on anything is that you are too kind to your criminals - they are a danger to the society and should be treated as such.
1) You're completely stereotyping the argument into addiction and people with nothing else in their lives. The fact remains that out of all the people that use drugs, these people fall into the small minority.
people who take drugs regularly are ether already "drugs and nothing else in their lives" or on the way there. nobody on this plabet is capable of controlling their addictions - not without completely giving up the source of it. and since there's no reliable and easy way to tell a "hardcore" drug user from "casual" they should all be treated equally as the criminals they are - and the drugs kept illegal.

Jaekus wrote:

2) Imposing your values upon people who have a problem such as addiction never really works in the long term.
wat? i don't even know where to start with this statement. when was the last time you looked out the window or watched tv, dude? everybody and their mother in law are busy "imposing their values" upon people, and if works so fucking well i'm not sure what's there to discuss, tbh.

Jaekus wrote:

3) You're unlikely to change your mind or want any education on the subject seeing as you feel fully justified in your narrow minded view, so what's the fucking point in me trying?
so now you know what level of education i have in the matter after reading my post on internet forums. well... kewl to be you.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2010-04-14 00:57:39
ruisleipa
Member
+149|6376|teh FIN-land

Shahter wrote:

people who take drugs regularly are ether already "drugs and nothing else in their lives" or on the way there. nobody on this plabet is capable of controlling their addictions - not without completely giving up the source of it. and since there's no reliable and easy way to tell a "hardcore" drug user from "casual" they should all be treated equally as the criminals they are - and the drugs kept illegal.
I think you should be more specific as to which drugs you're talking about, cos if you're talking about all drugs that are currently illegal, then your statement is as nonsense as lowing's arguments.
2010-04-14 01:09:06
The_Lance_117
CANADA STRONG
+110|6090|CANADA
Cali-fag here
I really don't like marijuana, stoners, and pot culture. But I do not think that the government should have such a controlling part of our lives. The role of the government should not be to decide what I can and cannot put inside my body (as long as it only harms myself).
2010-04-14 01:30:31
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|6929|Moscow, Russia

ruisleipa wrote:

Shahter wrote:

people who take drugs regularly are ether already "drugs and nothing else in their lives" or on the way there. nobody on this plabet is capable of controlling their addictions - not without completely giving up the source of it. and since there's no reliable and easy way to tell a "hardcore" drug user from "casual" they should all be treated equally as the criminals they are - and the drugs kept illegal.
I think you should be more specific as to which drugs you're talking about, cos if you're talking about all drugs that are currently illegal, then your statement is as nonsense as lowing's arguments.
ok, let me make it quite plain for you:
people get addicted to a lot of things. some eat themselves to 200+ kilos, some go base jumping, some watch porn 24/7, and some shoot heroin - the addiction mechanism is basically the same and all these things affect the lives of those addicted to them. all addictions also progress with time, and the only way to get them under control is giving up the source. there's NO other way.
now, drugs and other things people get addicted to also differ in the ways of the potentioal danger to the society. so, the question is - which is dangerous enough to be illegal? looking at it from this perspective i'd say that all drugs that are currently illegal should be kept that way, and some that aren't should be made illegal.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
2010-04-14 03:11:48
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6805|USA

Pug wrote:

Ok, then you are absolutely right.  No one pays for AA right now, and I don't think alcoholism is a legitimate health expense covered by insurance...  So rehab isn't currently covered, is someone saying it should be?

Sorry.  I haven't read much in this thread.
Well according to the DST brain trust here, we should legalize drugs then spend the money collected in taxes not to improve infrastructure, or run the functions of govt., we should spend it rehabbing all of those that chose to do their legalized drugs... I am leaning toward disagreeing with that postition.

Then there are those that equate becoming drugs addicts as requiring or deserving the same care as people who eat fast food or drive.. <-----I dunno, talk to them on that one, I have no desire to travel down that road.

then there is 11bravo who has decided that words or terminology will be defined based on his combat experience and real world................oh wait, different thread sorry.

Last edited by lowing (2010-04-14 04:30:30)

 

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