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Kimosabe-sa
Member
+11|5814|Port Elizabeth, South Africa
You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|5787|USA

Kimosabe-sa wrote:

You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
Finally a bit of rationality....all too lacking in these forums.
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,927|5757|949

read all my previous posts, this is what I have been saying all along.
Mason4Assassin444
retired
+552|5787|USA

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

read all my previous posts, this is what I have been saying all along.
I believe I said it too Jennings....

Too much irrational BULLSHIT shredded our posts.

Go ahead and -  karma people. I have a ton of it from this thread anyway.
atlvolunteer
PKMMMMMMMMMM
+27|5896|Atlanta, GA USA

Kimosabe-sa wrote:

You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
Holy shit!  We agree on something!
GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|5769

Kimosabe-sa wrote:

You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
I think you're a retard but I agree with this one

Last edited by GunSlinger OIF II (2006-04-26 13:31:30)

SFCCDailey
Banned
+106|5840|USA
Isn't it funny how most of the damn conservative assholes that are against abortion are for the death penalty??? Kinda makes you wonder about these smacktards. And I personlly don't think MEN including myself have the right to have any say in this matter what so ever!
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|5902

Kimosabe-sa wrote:

You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
Currently the male has no rights to abort.  Is that fair?  What happens when the 'sperm donor' doesn't want anything to do with the child and the woman wants him/her and comes calling with legal documents stating the 'sperm donor' must pay child support? 

There is a legal case I'm following that is testing the water on this issue.  I'll find it and post it later.  It's basically saying it's sexist to require the decision to rest solely on the female when it takes 2 to have a baby and the fact a woman can seek child support from a dad who wants nothing to do with the child.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|5821|NJ

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

RAIMIUS wrote:

"As a former fetus, I am Pro-Life."
I agree with this sentiment.
Also, I think it is wrong that the father has no legal say, currently.

If the mother's health is in danger, I can see having an abortion.
Me too. I find it odd that people can say a fetus is not a person when everyone alive at this moment was a fetus themselves. Had they been aborted, they would not exist. I don't like knowing that it was legal for my mother to take away my existence, had she chosen to do so. It's very disturbing.

Also when a mothers health is in danger, that is the only time I see an abortion as being an option. I don't think it is a good thing but I also don't think you should be able to force someone to give their life to save anothers. You can't force someone to basically die for another person.
Well then how would you feel living your life knowing that your mom never had the choice, but to have you?


Well it's choice like everything else, your choice might not be mine. Mine might not be yours and your opions are your own. So prochoice the world is over populated and pretty soon we'd be like china with forced sterlization and after birth murders.

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2006-04-26 15:35:05)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,939|5897|USA

Let me rephrase:

One of the things distinguishing abortion from murder is legality. In morality, there is very little difference. I am reasonable enough to see exceptions. If somebody is trying to kill you, then you are obligated to kill them first. Likewise (though more tragic), if a pregnancy has a good chance of killing the mother, then she should be allowed to decide for herself whether or not she wants to take that chance. What I don't agree with is people going in for abortions several times a year because they don't want to stop having sex. I view that as a selfish and horrid thing. And the male can easily put a stop to it with a vasectomy (or, more modernly, deferentectomy). And no, it won't make him sing alto, fold his underwear, grow breasts or go 'googoo-eyed' at anything perceived as cute.

The labelling of unborn children as 'inhuman things' is a dangerous mindset, as it opens similar portals to other development features stripping away human value from individuals in the public mindset. Retardation? Just kill 'em. They won't know the difference. What about non-mental deformities? Well, they'll be miserable anyway. Why not just enact a eugenics clause into the constitution?

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

unnamednewbie13 wrote:

UnOriginalNuttah wrote:

Reading through this thread I see many people with similar opinions to my own, but here's the way I look at it:

I think that you can't outlaw abortion because people will do it themselves.  A bottle of gin and hot bath is the classic, or there's the coathanger technique, not to mention that consuming every drug you can get your hands on to the borderline of overdose does the trick.  In my opinion it's not right to pass laws which make people resort to these inhumane backstreet methods.  I'm pro-abortion for humanitarian reasons.
Pretty much like saying that you can't outlaw murder because people will do it anyway. Plenty of evidence there.

Maybe we should just have government-funded murder houses where people can go kill their victims in a safer, cleaner fashion rather than in back alleys with a rusty knife. For humanitarian reasons, of course. And then bodies could just be thrown away like so much dog crap.
I'm trying to understand your view point, but I just can't see any connection between abortion and your analogy.   

But let's assume that a fetus can be considered a human being and not simply a fetus, and make a slightly different comparison:  There are plenty of forms of legalised killing, the only difference between a soldier killing and an abortion is whether or not the law chooses to see it as murder.  If killing in self defence was declared illegal tomorrow, a soldier doing their job would be at high risk of being unfairly charged with murder.  Obviously that would be ridiculous, and place them in great risk of life imprisonment for no good reason.  A bit like forcing women to risk severe internal bleeding, infection and infertility by outlawing them for making very hard decisions which will affect the rest of their life.

But let's assume your comparison stands, and take this example:  A woman doesn't know she is pregnant, and continues a lifestyle which leads to the premature abortion of the pregnancy, is that then manslaughter?  Maybe we should ban women from drinking and smoking once they hit puberty, just to be on the safe side.
{}

SFCCDailey wrote:

Isn't it funny how most of the damn conservative assholes that are against abortion are for the death penalty??? Kinda makes you wonder about these smacktards. And I personlly don't think MEN including myself have the right to have any say in this matter what so ever!
You say 'MEN' like it's a bad thing...

Anyway, murderers have had their chance to contribute to society. Infants have not. Saying that abortion is a womens' issue only because men don't get pregnant is like like saying that nobody should interfere with genocide, if it isn't their own country.

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Is pro-life or anti abortion a way for the christians and religous folks to make the apcolipse(spl I know) happen?
Um...what?

But aside from whatever that question was, pro-life/pro-choice are misnomers. It's pro-abortion and anti-abortion, folks, despite media efforts to pad the issue.

Now, I'm going to sit back and merrily receive yet another -5 karma points from this thread.

Last edited by unnamednewbie13 (2006-04-26 15:42:39)

cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|5821|NJ
Is pro-life or anti abortion a way for the christians and religous folks to make the apcolipse(spl I know) happen?
Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|5772

SFCCDailey wrote:

Isn't it funny how most of the damn conservative assholes that are against abortion are for the death penalty??? Kinda makes you wonder about these smacktards. And I personlly don't think MEN including myself have the right to have any say in this matter what so ever!
Conservative assholes? Conservatives against killing fetuses are assholes? Do you just wake up to a glass of retarded every morning?

Oh, and another thing. Abortion is in no way the same issue as the death penalty. I'm sorry, but it's not. Not every conservative is for the death penalty either. Not that it matters to you mister generalize everything.

One last thing. A fetus is not part of the mother either. It lives and survives off her yes, but it is still not another body part of hers. It is a serperate entity.
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|5815|Tampa Bay Florida

Kimosabe-sa wrote:

You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
+1, the best explanation I've ever heard on this issue.

Last edited by Spearhead (2006-04-26 17:16:58)

Ajax_the_Great1
Dropped on request
+206|5772

Spearhead wrote:

Kimosabe-sa wrote:

You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
+1, the best explanation I've ever heard on this issue.
It's actually a rather poor explaination with plenty of holes in it. But go ahead, believe it.

For one, she will not have to be forever burdened by child. There is adoption and the option to set up better facilities for accomodating adoption. Therefor, the mother does not have to be forever burdened. We can put as many excuses out there as we want but the simple fact is that we can do something. Not to mention the fact that there is the option of having safe sex and *gasp* RESPONSIBILITY. Rape is the only time it's not the womens fault. Not wearing a condom or getting too drunk at a party is no excuse.

Once a child is outside of her, she can not do whatever she wants with that child. If she neglects it, it's taken away from her. If she kills it then, she goes to jail for life. If she kills it when it is still inside of her, it's called an abortion and we all go on our marry way. In both cases it is her child. The theory of you can't tell people what to do with their children gets thrown out the window right there. We have many laws set up telling people what they can and cannot do with their children.

So once again it all comes back to - does a fetus have the same legal rights as you and I?
Spark
liquid fluoride thorium reactor
+874|5800|Canberra, AUS
And what if the fetus, for example, implants in the fallopian tube or something?

That would result in the death of both mother and baby. What do you say there?

Last edited by Spark (2006-04-26 18:38:21)

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
~ Richard Feynman
gator45666
Member
+6|5753|St.Petersburg, Fl.
Can We also add in some post birth abortion for some adults. I'm not a doctor but I am a thinker
Spearhead
Gulf coast redneck hippy
+731|5815|Tampa Bay Florida

Ajax_the_Great1 wrote:

Spearhead wrote:

Kimosabe-sa wrote:

You guys can go on and on about this till the cows come home. However it isn't your choice to make. Its the womens choice, as she is the one that will forever be burdened by a child.

If a women wants to abort then let her. You should not have any say what so ever about what happens inside her.
So why dont u keep your opinions, your god and you politics out of it. Its a womens choice and thats the end of it. Its her body its her child.
+1, the best explanation I've ever heard on this issue.
It's actually a rather poor explaination with plenty of holes in it. But go ahead, believe it.

For one, she will not have to be forever burdened by child. There is adoption and the option to set up better facilities for accomodating adoption. Therefor, the mother does not have to be forever burdened. We can put as many excuses out there as we want but the simple fact is that we can do something. Not to mention the fact that there is the option of having safe sex and *gasp* RESPONSIBILITY. Rape is the only time it's not the womens fault. Not wearing a condom or getting too drunk at a party is no excuse.

Once a child is outside of her, she can not do whatever she wants with that child. If she neglects it, it's taken away from her. If she kills it then, she goes to jail for life. If she kills it when it is still inside of her, it's called an abortion and we all go on our marry way. In both cases it is her child. The theory of you can't tell people what to do with their children gets thrown out the window right there. We have many laws set up telling people what they can and cannot do with their children.

So once again it all comes back to - does a fetus have the same legal rights as you and I?
It may have one hole or two, but what he said is the truth. 

Are you willing to pay tax money for government aids to help the children of mothers who wanted to abort, but couldn't? 

Whether you agree with it or not, it IS the mother's choice.  Just because you are Christian and because you don't like the idea or abortion doesn't mean that you decide whether or not a mother has a baby.  I think we ought to be worrying about other issues in this country, besides abortion. 

Ajax, do you belive in the death penalty?  Because if you do, I'd call you a hypocrit.
Naughty_Om
Im Ron Burgundy?
+355|5758|USA
Pro choice.....
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|5821|NJ
Well unnamed, the world according to the bible is suppose to end soon isn't it? And overpopulation is going to help this action move foward.
I really put some thought into this last night and one comparrision I could think of was the Nukes dropped on Japan in WW2, because it makes it such a bigger picture. There was a war and while half the world could say lets fight this all the way through with ground troops as apposed to killing the population in two cities. The generals thought the Loose of those lives would save millions without the use of ground troops. Don't you think the people dirrectly involved wondered if they made the right decision for the rest of their lives??


Don't tell me that there is no consiquence in aborting the fetus because that's something that the people involved have to live with for the rest of their lives.


Alot of people on this forum are saying that having the baby that was made by having a accident(could have been unprotected, or maybe the condom broke) is the responsible thing to do. If your responsible to have sex, your responiable to know that a baby could be produced, and then have to either raise the child or abort it.

Edited to tell unnamed that I gave him a +1 because even though I don't agree with his opion, it's his to have. And if we did agree I wouldn't have anything to do at work

Last edited by cpt.fass1 (2006-04-27 08:18:28)

nix0n
Banned
+5|5768
if the mother wants an abortion let it happen, nobody cares.

well... nobody meaning all those boys who think everything needs to be saved because its the "right" thing to do.

but honestly, everyone dies, get over it... in the history of humanity.. billions of people have died, and it will continue to happen.
wannabe_tank_whore
Member
+5|5902
I will be for abortion when the male has a right in the decision.

Quotes I agree with:
"In principle I want the twosome responsible for the biological fact of conception to resolve the fate of the fetus. It's my notion that men should help sweat the decision."


"My argument is that your body has in fact been altered by the product of two party behavior, a product that has genetic inheritance from a guy that just might care to petition for its bringing to term. You make the final decision, but to pretend that what has changed your body is the product of your own wish fullness is manifestly false. So I would like you to hear out the husband. Its not just notification of course, its also the idea that the husband can then plead.

We don't have a perfect world. Abortion is what is called a clash of faulty rights. When a man and woman disagree about the fate of the fetus there are faulty rights involved. That's a solemn doctrine in the law. Things are not neat and tidy, so if you require the woman to hear the man's plea it could be very painful to her. I think that pain is outweighed by what I regard as the legitimacy of the plea. We must come to the realization that this is not a women's issue and it is not a men's issue; this is a couple's issue."
KEN-JENNINGS
I am all that is MOD!
+2,927|5757|949

First and foremost, the US dropped atom bombs over Japan to scare the russians, not to save lives, but that is for another post.  No one is saying there are no consequences to aborting a fetus, and I personally know someone that has and it has given her much mental anguish.  It is easy to say, "Well, if they were responsible enough to have sex, they are responsible enough to have a kid."  Yeah, well, it doesn't work that way.  What about some 15 year-old kid who wants to get his dick wet for the first time?  Do you think he is thinking about the consequences of his actions?  I don't think so.  I do not buy the oh, well they could adopt route either.  We have way too many orphaned kids as it is, and it is not up to us to support kids that people can not take care of.  The social system in the US is already riddled with problems and mismanagement, what is another 100,000 kids a year in social services going to do?  Like I have said before, I am not pro-abortion, but abortions are going to happen.  Judges back in 1973 saw that this issue is not about beliefs or rhetoric, but a real issue that the government needed to regulate.
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|5821|NJ
Ken I was thinking that the atom bomb was the best anoligy for this because it brings the needs of the many outway the needs of the few. But the russians where an allie during that time period and very very week we didn't need to scare them. I'm not sure how many people died as a result from that but they where cauculationg 1 million lives lost with an invasion.
nix0n
Banned
+5|5768

KEN-JENNINGS wrote:

First and foremost, the US dropped atom bombs over Japan
Screenshots or it never happened.

Last edited by nix0n (2006-04-27 10:02:07)

GunSlinger OIF II
Banned.
+1,860|5769

cpt.fass1 wrote:

Ken I was thinking that the atom bomb was the best anoligy for this because it brings the needs of the many outway the needs of the few. But the russians where an allie during that time period and very very week we didn't need to scare them. I'm not sure how many people died as a result from that but they where cauculationg 1 million lives lost with an invasion.
I really dont wanna start telling you about how inaccurate you are.

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