BF2S Forums I feel frivolous lawsuits coming on. Bad Walmart announcement

Pug wrote:

lowing wrote:

Pug wrote:

I'm not sure if I did say that or not.

But the meaning is: your STATEMENT is racist

so instead of qualifying what I say as racist, you and are content with just merely dismissing it as such, and moving on? Even when called out on it, you feel no need to explain yourself?

I've explained why its racist a few times already.

I've also explained why you are incorrect a few times already.

Yet I'm dismissing you somehow or have no need to explain myself.

really? You have explained why it is racist?? Sorry, I missed that completely.

All you did was invent shit you said I said and argued it. I have asked you to take what I DID say and argue against that. THis you have not done yet.

How about we start over and you explain how I am racist one more time. Explain how anything I have said is racist and NOT social.

Pug wrote:

This post is all inclusive.  You don't find it offensive.  It is.

I've explained why.

actually we can take specific parts which basically are racist or at the very least sterotypically offensive:

the black community chooses to hero worship gang members and violence, instead of black astronauts, doctors, firefighters, cops, pilots etc...

black America views success and making something of yourself as selling out to "whitey"

badabing?

ruisleipa wrote:

Pug wrote:

This post is all inclusive.  You don't find it offensive.  It is.

I've explained why.

actually we can take specific parts which basically are racist or at the very least sterotypically offensive:

the black community chooses to hero worship gang members and violence, instead of black astronauts, doctors, firefighters, cops, pilots etc...

black America views success and making something of yourself as selling out to "whitey"

badabing?

Same goes for you. These things have already been pointed out from within the black community itself. Yet you do not call them racist.


I discuss it so I am a racist    <------------ This is your argument and it is full of bullshit

Pug wrote:

lowing wrote:

Since when does offensive automatically denote racism. Sometimes the truth hurts This does not make it automatically illegitimate.

You have not explained anything. Again you have made up things I have said and then challenged them. Try challenging what I did say.

Fact is, what I have posted has already been observed by many people. Even black people of which I have posted examples. Yet you fail to call them racist. Sorry the illogical and inconsistency attitude is yours not mine. Deal with it.

I've told you that you have extended your comments to the entire black community.

I've also told you the flaws within the comments.

By applying these comments to the entire black community it's called stereotyping.

And you keep telling me I haven't posted anything.

Should I just copy and paste everything from before and hope this time you don't have your head in your ass?

lowing wrote:

Same goes for you. These things have already been pointed out from within the black community itself. Yet you do not call them racist.

If they did say the same stuff you did, well, yes, they are.  Now, aren't you glad we straightened that out?

I don't really care if you like it or not, or are offended or not, what I have posted are issues the black community has acknowledged as a problem within itself. Your denial changes nothing.

Nope try posting against what was said within the context it was stated. Your insistence on me including the "entire black community" is nothing more than an attempted distraction from what the context of the posts were saying. It means you can not prove your argument standing toe to toe against what was posted and in context.

What do you mean "IF" they said the same stuff I did? l already posted links to members of the black community actually saying it. Does your denial even go so far as to ignore the fact of that matter as well?

Last edited by lowing (2010-04-01 09:42:56)

Pug wrote:

I was specific before, regarding the size of the problem, the errors and inconsistencies within the statements...within your context.  I believe you told me I was digging too deep.

I think perhaps you missed a point here: I'm saying the statement is racist.  I've explained why.

What do you want?  I've already told you that the problem is not as large as you are making it out to be.  Hero worship happens with a small few, which means it isn't "ripping the community apart".  I've told you that you are focused on the exception to the rule, and by applying it to the community with the language you are using you are perpetuating a stereotype.

What exactly am I denying?

No you are tyring to tap dance now. You went from saying I was wrong, that saggers started in Japan, to not being as big as I think. and you still haven't acknowledged you were wrong about sagging.

All I have done is repeat what others, INCLUDING black people have been saying. The problem is big enough within the black community to have it discussed by famous black people and address the black community by those same people.

you are ignoring the context of the post and hanging your hat on the "entire" black community and "ripping the community apart". Try addressing the issue that is the focal point of the argument. Fathers abandoning families, prison, and negative influences over positive influences, as well the perceived notion of success equating "selling out".

Get back with me when you choose to address those points and tell me how stating them makes me a racist when it is something agreed upon by several affluent black personalities.

Also, please give me a list of points you want addressed, so I can copy and paste from earlier in the thread.

1) sagging (checkmark)
2) ???

I will restate everything when I have time.  You'll find I've actually address you several times.  You ain't listening.

You indirectly said its a form of hero worship, and that hero worship is what is tearing the community apart.  How is that different?

And let's be specific, I'm saying it's a racist remark because you are taking a small problem and applying it to the entire population.  If that wasn't your intention, all you have to do is narrow your focus to the population it actually represents.

How exactly is it okay to repeat a racist remark and claim safe harbor because someone else said it?

lowing wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

lowing wrote:

Do you care to explain what rights white people have that blacks do not, or what is not equal?

Because I can list a whole truck load of shit that  "reverse" discrimination has yielded.

Well I can name many inequalities - the fact that black people are disproportionately in prison for example, or on death row, or in poverty, or uneducated, or on welfare, and so on. It's not simply about having a right on paper. Society isn't 'equal' and you know it.

Then maybe the black community should address its problems. Stuff like hero worship of gangs, fathers abandoning their families, the viewing of success as selling out etc...

I think you did fine until the last sentence.

Also, don't you think its interesting that the education system is blameless?  I mean, if there's a direct pipeline from school to prison...what is it?  Race?

Bullshit.

How is it always the fault of the black community?

It's not the community, but all the people that make up the community?  I guess I didn't understand we were splitting hairs here.  Wait, wut?

If young kids of a specific race are having a problem staying in school and avoiding gangs, how is that not a failure of the educational system if the goal is to keep them in school and a productive member of society?  What I'm hearing is disturbing.  You basically are telling me that black folks raise their kids to be in a gang. Because the parents suck?  Is that the only reason?

Here's an example.  My wife sells education materials to school.  She has a meeting in the Rio Grande Valley and asks the marketing for some materials with hispanic kids in it.  So she gets an email with eight pics.  Only one of the pics was of minorities.  The email said "pic six looks good".  Pic six was a group of black students.  So she has to call marketing and explain the difference between a hispanic and black kid.

So if the publisher of educational materials has these issues, what do you think happens in the classroom?

Bullshit

okay, and did you read your own post?

lowing wrote:

It isn't the fault of the black community as an entity onto itself. It is the fault of the INDIVIDUALS within that community. My comments went to the black community to identify where the problems lie, not toward the black community because it is black. Way big difference.

Aren't the individuals within the black community black?  Which make up the entity?  So how is that any different?

lowing wrote:

Education is blameless. It take more than just a teacher and a classroom to educate kids. It takes the kids desire to learn, which they are supposed to get from the parents first and formost, and it takes parental involvement of that learning. All a teacher can do is provide the material and the willingness to teach it.

So black parents don't want their kids to learn because they don't support the parenting required to support education?  Or black kids lack the desire to learn?  bullshit

lowing wrote:

So instead of blaming education for these kids problems, blame the parents, and yes even the kids. Blame their environment if you want to I will simply point out that their environment is made up of parents and kids just like themselves. Which takes us back to the black community now doesn't it?

The only direct pipeline is from shitty parenting and shitty attitudes to prison.

Maybe you can understand why I'm not believing that there's a big difference between "handling problems" and "entire community" because you say to blame the parents and the kids.

There's just absolutely no way that the system has a flaw?  Why?  Because it works for white people and therefore it should work for everyone?  So the system isn't broken, then why is there a higher percentage of young blacks in prison than whites as a percentage of population?  Therefore it's got to be some other factor - maybe shitty parenting?  School system?  Racist cops?

But you aren't singling out the community, just all of the individuals within the community?

How exactly do I separate your comments when it's universally applied?  IF THAT ISN'T WHAT YOU MEANT, then perhaps you ought to think about reading the shit you post.

Purposeful shitty parenting.  I find it hard to believe black folks WANT their kids to be in a gang.  Is shitty parenting restricted by race?  Bullshit

All nicely tied into black folks gang hero worship.

So my question is whether is self-perpetuating, perpetuated by social status, or perpetuated in another way?

How do you break the cycle?  By blaming the group?  Bullshit.

Pug wrote:

okay, and did you read your own post?

lowing wrote:

It isn't the fault of the black community as an entity onto itself. It is the fault of the INDIVIDUALS within that community. My comments went to the black community to identify where the problems lie, not toward the black community because it is black. Way big difference.

Aren't the individuals within the black community black?  Which make up the entity?  So how is that any different?

lowing wrote:

Education is blameless. It take more than just a teacher and a classroom to educate kids. It takes the kids desire to learn, which they are supposed to get from the parents first and formost, and it takes parental involvement of that learning. All a teacher can do is provide the material and the willingness to teach it.

So black parents don't want their kids to learn because they don't support the parenting required to support education?  Or black kids lack the desire to learn?  bullshit

lowing wrote:

So instead of blaming education for these kids problems, blame the parents, and yes even the kids. Blame their environment if you want to I will simply point out that their environment is made up of parents and kids just like themselves. Which takes us back to the black community now doesn't it?

The only direct pipeline is from shitty parenting and shitty attitudes to prison.

Maybe you can understand why I'm not believing that there's a big difference between "handling problems" and "entire community" because you say to blame the parents and the kids.

There's just absolutely no way that the system has a flaw?  Why?  Because it works for white people and therefore it should work for everyone?  So the system isn't broken, then why is there a higher percentage of young blacks in prison than whites as a percentage of population?  Therefore it's got to be some other factor - maybe shitty parenting?  School system?  Racist cops?

But you aren't singling out the community, just all of the individuals within the community?

How exactly do I separate your comments when it's universally applied?  IF THAT ISN'T WHAT YOU MEANT, then perhaps you ought to think about reading the shit you post.

Purposeful shitty parenting.  I find it hard to believe black folks WANT their kids to be in a gang.  Is shitty parenting restricted by race?  Bullshit

All nicely tied into black folks gang hero worship.

So my question is whether is self-perpetuating, perpetuated by social status, or perpetuated in another way?

How do you break the cycle?  By blaming the group?  Bullshit.

Again, I denote the black community as where the problem lies, NOT that the black vcommunity has the problem because they are black. THis is what you are trying t opin on me and I refuse thst label.

The attitudes that is a significant problem within the black community ( the same attitudes and problems addressed by black leaders)  is not one of positive reinforcement.  and yes, ANYONE with these attitudes, does not have a desire to learn. For if they did, they would get their asses in school. but since it is the blsck community we are discussing because of the higher rate of problems. I am singling out blasck kids who have these attitudes and problems,ONLY for the sake of this discussion.

ENTIRE community is your words not mine. It is rediculous on your part to think I speak of every dingle black person within the black community as a problem, or hero worships gang bangers, or approves of sagging, or views success as selling out. but of all of what I have said, the ENTIRE COMMUNITY is what you hang your hat on to fight about, and I didn't even fuckiin say that. Problem that pisses me off with you is, you know I didn't or could possibly mean every I was speaking about every single black person, as if there is no way I knew there were successful, respectful law abiding citizens within the black community. If there is any bullshit, it is yours, and your attempts to argue the obvious.

No, not because it works for white people but because by and large the white community does not have the attiutdes or problems that are found within the black community. However those within the white community that have these same problems, prison history in the family, shitty parenting, shitty attitudes,etc. the system also does not work. THis means it is not arace issue, this is a social issue. THat is why I am not a racist.

As far as the system having flaws, never said it didn't, but I will say, even under a perfect education system, if the parents will not raise their kids responsibly, and kids will not adopt the proper attitude, the perfect education system will not help the problems. Keeping in mind the classroom is a place of learning not a rehab center or a fuckin a day care.

As far as why is there a higher percentage of blacks in prison uhhh because a higher percentage of black are committing crimes? Because everything I have discussed as a problem within the black community? ( you know, the problems you called me a racist for daring to say)
Or is this where you blame everyone EXCEPT those black people with those problems I speak of?

You separate my comments by using common sense, try it. I guess I thought it was understood that there was no way I could possibly mean or speak of every single black person, but hey I guess I gave you too much credit.


purposeful or not, there is no denying it. Or do you think kids attitudes and problems are not a product of their environment or up bringing?

Everything I speak of is social. The black community does not have these problems because they are black. I can't say why these problems exist. THere are those that want to blame the past, ( a past most within this community have never been a witness to) for their problems. I do not, I blame ( as always and for everyone ) blame individuals for individual problems.

Where does the cycle stop? When the attiudes stop. When parenting starts. I am not willing to support a destructive attitude in hopes it will change. The destructive attiude must stop first. a desire to help themselves nust take root, then progress emerges.

lowing wrote:

purposeful or not, there is no denying it. Or do you think kids attitudes and problems are not a product of their environment or up bringing?

Everything I speak of is social. The black community does not have these problems because they are black. I can't say why these problems exist. THere are those that want to blame the past, ( a past most within this community have never been a witness to) for their problems. I do not, I blame ( as always and for everyone ) blame individuals for individual problems.

Where does the cycle stop? When the attiudes stop. When parenting starts. I am not willing to support a destructive attitude in hopes it will change. The destructive attiude must stop first. a desire to help themselves nust take root, then progress emerges.

While it is clearly true that a lot of problems within 'the black community' are caused by individuals themselves, like in any group of people, do you therefore deny that racism in society as a whole has nothing to do with it?

Last edited by ruisleipa (2010-04-02 05:31:50)