Pages: 1 … 6 7 8 9 10 … 12

 

2010-03-25 12:41:53
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France

lowing wrote:

west-phoenix-az wrote:

I believe the point Lowing is trying to make about sagging is that it is widely believed to have originated in prison.
nooooooooo I am saying it DID orginate in the prison system.

So now that that little factoid is established. I will wait for someone ot explain to me how people will adopt a look that emmulates prison life, and at the same time say that they are not hero worshipping that life.
And what I'm saying is A + B doesn't mean C.

My kids go to private school.  A couple of the kids (white and hispanic) have sagged their pants.  I've noticed it.  I don't like it.

Unfortunately one of them is the validictorian

And not a validictorian of the gang either

I keep posting examples for a reason:
-Wearing jeans on Gay & Lesbian Day doesn't mean you like sausage


You think its a major problem.  I do not.  I don't like it either...but...I'm not willing to jump off the bridge
2010-03-25 12:42:02
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Pug wrote:

Point being, it doesn't matter where it originated.

I did address it, no?

I disagree with you.  I'm not seeing it the same way as you, specifically:

1) Sagging helps create more gang activity
2) Hero worship
3) preference of gangs over hard working folks

Aka, its a limited problem which is being blown out of proportion.

Do I like it?  No.  But I'm not seeing it as a threat ripping the community apart.

So yeah, I've address it a few times already.

We have different opinions on how shitty the situation is.
no what you did was say that you disagree on points I never made. Try addressing hte points I did make

I can post articles reflecting the growth of gang violence, its spread to suburbs, the controversy revolving around sagging, and how quality schooling is going down hill, the problem with success being viewed as selling out.

If you want, I would love to read articles where gang violence is not on the rise or spreading, school systems are improving. While you are at it, show me articles that claim the black community does not have such problems with fathers leaving their families, success is not viewed as selling out, and gangs members and gang rap artists are not emmulated.

Ya see I have read things to back up my opinion. I trust you have done the same, care to post them?
2010-03-25 12:46:23
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France
Awesome.

Now, on a scale from 1 to 10, compared with other problems....
2010-03-25 12:51:33
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France
The point is you are making it a bigger issue than it really is.

The general meaning of your posts are it's a universal problem...for everyone, for the entire black community.

It's not.
2010-03-25 13:56:45
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Bertster7 wrote:

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

ok, well I see you have yet to address the arguments we have had in the past to disprove the status of your racism.  typical.
It is not up to me to prove I am not racist, it is your claim that I am, you should prove it.
No one needs to prove it.

It is not an absolute. Racism is subjective to a point.

Most people here seem to think you come across as a racist because of the overall tone and subtext of your posts. Those opinions are certainly not unfounded.



And sagging? WTF? Who the fuck cares? There will always be those with thinly veiled prejudices targeting the fashions of minorities - Zoot Suits being another example.
Those opinions are unfounded because I have not made any racial comments. I have never not once pinned white people as superior to anyone and H ave never not once said that the problems stemming form the black community is do to the fact that they are black.

My posts are socially motivated not racially.

and sagging who gives a fuck? Perhaps employers for one. It emmulates gang life. It is the image you want to project and when you project it, you are surprised people have something to say about it? Time to get real.
2010-03-26 14:58:06
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Pug wrote:

The point is you are making it a bigger issue than it really is.

The general meaning of your posts are it's a universal problem...for everyone, for the entire black community.

It's not.
Never said the entire black community. The ENTIRE black community would also include those blacks that are successful. Try sticking to what I did say. and yes it is a problem because the rest of us, (middle class blacks included) are having to pay for it.

and no, the point is you are wrong, about hte origins of sagging and  the rest.

Like I said,You say I am wrong and you disagreewith me. That is fine. Now show me why you disagree with me. If you can find articles that claim gang violence is NOT on the rise, schools are excelling, etc.....please post them I would love to read it.
2010-03-26 16:56:56
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|6691|North Carolina
I can't say I agree with lowing, but the fact that this kid who did this is actually facing criminal charges is pretty ridiculous.

So, basically, I have to retract what I was saying about free speech in that other thread.  Our speech is about equally as free Europe's, but we just have different restrictions due to different groups of opportunists and people with thin skin.
2010-03-26 19:05:55
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France

lowing wrote:

Pug wrote:

The point is you are making it a bigger issue than it really is.

The general meaning of your posts are it's a universal problem...for everyone, for the entire black community.

It's not.
Never said the entire black community. The ENTIRE black community would also include those blacks that are successful. Try sticking to what I did say. and yes it is a problem because the rest of us, (middle class blacks included) are having to pay for it.

and no, the point is you are wrong, about hte origins of sagging and  the rest.

Like I said,You say I am wrong and you disagreewith me. That is fine. Now show me why you disagree with me. If you can find articles that claim gang violence is NOT on the rise, schools are excelling, etc.....please post them I would love to read it.
How about I just show you where your argument sucks by sticking to what you posted instead?

To be specific on why you are getting "entire black community" comments from me and why you are getting this reaction from me:  what portion of "ripping apart the black community" are you talking about?  All of it?  Part of it?  Seems like you said THE black community.

Its it too much to ask for you to back off from making a complete blanket statement like that?  What good does it do?

There are plenty of black role models that aren't in gangs.  I'm telling you that that the preference is gang violence is inherently incorrect, because it is a blanket statement.  For one, I'm going to tell you that given the choice between being the president of the US and a banger, a young black kid is more likely to want to be president instead of a gangbanger...even if they are in a gang.

First point: are you 100% sure that gang violence is on the rise because of black gangs only?  I think its all gangs.  So how useful is it to single out blacks?

Second point: are you 100% sure that gang violence is on the rise?  For instance, the number of incidents was up over the last 10 years, but the latest data (2008) say the number of incidents have been the same.  Statistics are statistics.  Here is an example on how statistics lie:...is gang violence outpacing population growth?  If it isn't, then isn't it shrinking?  Are we supposed to weigh more violent crimes more heavily?

Third point: are you 100% sure that racial makeup is the driving factor for gang violence?  The economy has declined.  There is a direct relationship between crime and unemployment.  Are you sure that any factor outweighs growing unemployment?

Fourth point: Did you know that there are more hispanic than black gang members in the US?  47% versus 31% in 1999 according to the Bureau of Justice?  And according to the 2000 census, the racial makeup of the US was 12.55% hispanic and 12.06% black?  Are you focusing on the right race?

What breaks racial stereotyping and a self fulfilling prophecy?  By not perpetuating it.

I'm sorry I don't focus on stereotyping and focus on what's positive.  This is not what you are doing.

You said you haven't made a blanket statement.  FALSE.  I pointed it out in the first response to you.

You are insistent on having me refute the articles you have posted in the past.  I'm telling you I think that is awesome, but like I pointed out a few times: you are taking a few facts and expanding them to an entire population by using "ripping the black community apart" and "hero worship of gang violence" specific to ONE RACE.

From the dictionary:
Main Entry: stereotype
Function: noun
Etymology: French stéréotype, from stéré- stere- + type
Date: 1817
1 : a plate cast from a printing surface
2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment

Ever wonder why people keep saying you are racist?  Highlighted above.

If you want to argue that blacks are the main reason for gang violence?  Start with arguing against the four points above.

If you don't want to be called a racist, perhaps you ought to figure out how to state your points without making comments which aren't duplistic in nature.
2010-03-27 09:41:15
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Pug wrote:

lowing wrote:

Pug wrote:

The point is you are making it a bigger issue than it really is.

The general meaning of your posts are it's a universal problem...for everyone, for the entire black community.

It's not.
Never said the entire black community. The ENTIRE black community would also include those blacks that are successful. Try sticking to what I did say. and yes it is a problem because the rest of us, (middle class blacks included) are having to pay for it.

and no, the point is you are wrong, about hte origins of sagging and  the rest.

Like I said,You say I am wrong and you disagreewith me. That is fine. Now show me why you disagree with me. If you can find articles that claim gang violence is NOT on the rise, schools are excelling, etc.....please post them I would love to read it.
How about I just show you where your argument sucks by sticking to what you posted instead?

To be specific on why you are getting "entire black community" comments from me and why you are getting this reaction from me:  what portion of "ripping apart the black community" are you talking about?  All of it?  Part of it?  Seems like you said THE black community.

Its it too much to ask for you to back off from making a complete blanket statement like that?  What good does it do?

There are plenty of black role models that aren't in gangs.  I'm telling you that that the preference is gang violence is inherently incorrect, because it is a blanket statement.  For one, I'm going to tell you that given the choice between being the president of the US and a banger, a young black kid is more likely to want to be president instead of a gangbanger...even if they are in a gang.

First point: are you 100% sure that gang violence is on the rise because of black gangs only?  I think its all gangs.  So how useful is it to single out blacks?

Second point: are you 100% sure that gang violence is on the rise?  For instance, the number of incidents was up over the last 10 years, but the latest data (2008) say the number of incidents have been the same.  Statistics are statistics.  Here is an example on how statistics lie:...is gang violence outpacing population growth?  If it isn't, then isn't it shrinking?  Are we supposed to weigh more violent crimes more heavily?

Third point: are you 100% sure that racial makeup is the driving factor for gang violence?  The economy has declined.  There is a direct relationship between crime and unemployment.  Are you sure that any factor outweighs growing unemployment?

Fourth point: Did you know that there are more hispanic than black gang members in the US?  47% versus 31% in 1999 according to the Bureau of Justice?  And according to the 2000 census, the racial makeup of the US was 12.55% hispanic and 12.06% black?  Are you focusing on the right race?

What breaks racial stereotyping and a self fulfilling prophecy?  By not perpetuating it.

I'm sorry I don't focus on stereotyping and focus on what's positive.  This is not what you are doing.

You said you haven't made a blanket statement.  FALSE.  I pointed it out in the first response to you.

You are insistent on having me refute the articles you have posted in the past.  I'm telling you I think that is awesome, but like I pointed out a few times: you are taking a few facts and expanding them to an entire population by using "ripping the black community apart" and "hero worship of gang violence" specific to ONE RACE.

From the dictionary:
Main Entry: stereotype
Function: noun
Etymology: French stéréotype, from stéré- stere- + type
Date: 1817
1 : a plate cast from a printing surface
2 : something conforming to a fixed or general pattern; especially : a standardized mental picture that is held in common by members of a group and that represents an oversimplified opinion, prejudiced attitude, or uncritical judgment

Ever wonder why people keep saying you are racist?  Highlighted above.

If you want to argue that blacks are the main reason for gang violence?  Start with arguing against the four points above.

If you don't want to be called a racist, perhaps you ought to figure out how to state your points without making comments which aren't duplistic in nature.
For you to deny and dismiss that the black community has image problems that are based in fact is something I can not help. You are either going to open up to that fact or you are not. Denying it, covering your eyes does not change it. If you do not think that success within the black community is largely viewed as selling out, the nyou are in denial. If you think that gang life is not glamourized in hip hop, again, you are in so sort of deep denial that is beyond comprehenion.

Now to address your points:

1. Never blamed blacks for the rise in gang violence or said it was black gangs only. I focus on the black communtiy here because they are Americans. Mexican gangs are probably made up mostly of illegal aliens which brings us to a different problem all together.

2. you are digging tooo deep here and dissecting too much. Gang violence is a growing problem within American society. Get used to that that.

3. Never said race is the reason for gang related incidents. enough said. Again try sticking to what I do say.

4. see 1.

The black community itself acknowledges the issues it has with the points I have made. Your denial and insistence on "focusing on the positive", does not mean the negative is non-existent, and is somewhat curious. Unless you say this shit for no other reason that to argue. I speak of the negative because it is those issues that need addressing. Obviously the positve issues need no attention they are self sustaining.

SO again bottom line, you disagree with me. Fine Post articles that prove the black community does not have an image problem brought on by the fact that it has a social problem. Because I can back my opinions. I, however, find it rediculous to waste time posting the obvious.

Tack these articles on with your article claiming sagging began in Japan and not the US prison system
2010-03-27 15:33:47
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkCgVrOITwo
You plan on addressing what I post yet, or better still show a post of mine where I said I think white people are superior to black people? Or are you wiliing to acknowledge that my issues are social and not racial?
Never got this addressed, go figure
2010-03-27 15:53:24
Trotskygrad
бля
+354|6285|Vortex Ring State

LostFate wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Saggin spells niggas backwards
Any need for this you tard?
I think not.
2010-03-27 17:26:55
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5545|foggy bottom

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkCgVrOITwo
You plan on addressing what I post yet, or better still show a post of mine where I said I think white people are superior to black people? Or are you wiliing to acknowledge that my issues are social and not racial?
Never got this addressed, go figure
get over yourself lowing.

I could play the same game....Im right youre wrong now go look for links that tell me otherwise

Last edited by eleven bravo (2010-03-27 17:34:02)

Tu Stultus Es
2010-03-28 12:35:24
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

eleven bravo wrote:

lowing wrote:

lowing wrote:


You plan on addressing what I post yet, or better still show a post of mine where I said I think white people are superior to black people? Or are you wiliing to acknowledge that my issues are social and not racial?
Never got this addressed, go figure
get over yourself lowing.

I could play the same game....Im right youre wrong now go look for links that tell me otherwise
Already did, there are none that prove you right.

lol, figures as much. I am not playing a game, I can not prove a negative. I can only prove I am not a racist by the fact thattheir are no racial comments made by me. All of my comments are social in nature.

Now, if I am a racist I would assume you have proof of this in something I have posted that clearly pins white people superior to any other race.

However it is clear you do not have such evidence because all you are doing is playing reversal games, just like a bitch.
2010-03-28 12:39:56
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5545|foggy bottom
my evidence comes from every single post your write dude.  you are so satisfied with yourself you really think you are winning arguments or that there are any arguments to begin with with you.  we've gone through this a lot lowing go fuck yourself if you cant remember the times youve left a thread because you have nothing to say.

heres what you, you whine about how no one can refute anything you say right.  ok, when someone does a point by point argument refuting your post you focus your reply on the point that has the least amount to do with is being discussed, then, you go off on another tangent, shift the debate to that all the while the facts that you have been proven wrong with have been ignored because you go off on some other shit.
Tu Stultus Es
2010-03-28 12:52:32
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

eleven bravo wrote:

my evidence comes from every single post your write dude.  you are so satisfied with yourself you really think you are winning arguments or that there are any arguments to begin with with you.  we've gone through this a lot lowing go fuck yourself if you cant remember the times youve left a thread because you have nothing to say.

heres what you, you whine about how no one can refute anything you say right.  ok, when someone does a point by point argument refuting your post you focus your reply on the point that has the least amount to do with is being discussed, then, you go off on another tangent, shift the debate to that all the while the facts that you have been proven wrong with have been ignored because you go off on some other shit.
Your accusations are quite specific, so prove them....If it is that easy to prove me a racist with "ALL the posts I have written". THen it should be easy to single 1 or 2 of them out. Now, be sure what you single out fit the definition of racist. Because I have already admitted to social prejudices. Problem is, those social prejudices apply to all people in every race that fit into the discription of what I am bitching about.

This includes white welfare, white saggers, white criminals et....You can not find a single post where I claim white people are excused from any of the social issues I discuss. Not a single one.

So stop being a bitch already, and post something that does this.

I do not like this bullshit point by point ( word by word) argument crap. It removes that argument form the context of what is being said in the paragrah. and you pretty much know it. I will not respond to those types of responses because I am not going to dissect one argument into 15 separate arguments. This is a tactic employed by those that can not stand toe to toe in an argument. It is done to deflect form the main point. I don't do this.

I don't abandon threads, if I leave a thread it is because I am bored or the attention of the thread has been taken over by 2 other people engaged in their own argument.
2010-03-28 12:54:13
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|5545|foggy bottom
the fact that you even point out the racial background of any of the people you talk about is a clear sign of your unracism.
Tu Stultus Es
2010-03-28 13:06:38
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

eleven bravo wrote:

the fact that you even point out the racial background of any of the people you talk about is a clear sign of your unracism.
You are now claiming you can not talk about social issues, affirmative action, reverse discrimination, double standards, racism etc, .. and mention the races involved in such social issues? and to do so makes you a racist? Wow, ya just proved my point I have been making about how the liberals conduct an argument. congrats.

What a bunch of bullshit. not surprised however. Get back with me when you dig up at least 1 of "ALL the posts I have ever written", that fit the critera of racism.

Last edited by lowing (2010-03-28 16:06:14)

2010-03-29 05:56:02
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,817|6391|eXtreme to the maX
Um, I'm a liberal and I think if all the racists could STFU, all those racists who are aggrieved that some other race is using racism to their advantage by playing the race card could STFU, all those outraged by perceived racism but its just that they have thin skin (black mostly TBH) could STFU, and all the non-racists pissed off that racism, perceived racism and reverse racism are filling the headlines could STFU then maybe we could back to important things like how Obama hates freedom, punishes success and is appeasing muslims.
Fuck Israel
2010-03-29 09:49:55
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France

Dilbert_X wrote:

Um, I'm a liberal and I think if all the racists could STFU, all those racists who are aggrieved that some other race is using racism to their advantage by playing the race card could STFU, all those outraged by perceived racism but its just that they have thin skin (black mostly TBH) could STFU, and all the non-racists pissed off that racism, perceived racism and reverse racism are filling the headlines could STFU then maybe we could back to important things like how Obama hates freedom, punishes success and is appeasing muslims.
I think you should STFU

Just kidding.  Nice post, very concise and true, except for that last part about Obama...as I'm tired right now and I'd have to think a little first.
2010-03-29 10:22:52
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France

lowing wrote:

For you to deny and dismiss that the black community has image problems that are based in fact is something I can not help. You are either going to open up to that fact or you are not. Denying it, covering your eyes does not change it. If you do not think that success within the black community is largely viewed as selling out, the nyou are in denial. If you think that gang life is not glamourized in hip hop, again, you are in so sort of deep denial that is beyond comprehenion.

Now to address your points:

1. Never blamed blacks for the rise in gang violence or said it was black gangs only. I focus on the black communtiy here because they are Americans. Mexican gangs are probably made up mostly of illegal aliens which brings us to a different problem all together.

2. you are digging tooo deep here and dissecting too much. Gang violence is a growing problem within American society. Get used to that that.

3. Never said race is the reason for gang related incidents. enough said. Again try sticking to what I do say.

4. see 1.

The black community itself acknowledges the issues it has with the points I have made. Your denial and insistence on "focusing on the positive", does not mean the negative is non-existent, and is somewhat curious. Unless you say this shit for no other reason that to argue. I speak of the negative because it is those issues that need addressing. Obviously the positve issues need no attention they are self sustaining.

SO again bottom line, you disagree with me. Fine Post articles that prove the black community does not have an image problem brought on by the fact that it has a social problem. Because I can back my opinions. I, however, find it rediculous to waste time posting the obvious.

Tack these articles on with your article claiming sagging began in Japan and not the US prison system
I'm too tired to really respond to this.

Where exactly did I deny anything? I said IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE MAKING BLANKET STATEMENTS.

I also said "RIPPING THE BLACK COMMUNITY APART" isn't "the  black community acknowledging" the issues.  It's "holy crap we all are going to die".

I do not believe what you wear glorifies anything, and if so, it affects a miniscule amount of people.  Get it right.  That is not a denial.

You never said "blacks only", yet it SEEMS like you are singling them out based on your posts.  I've told you why.  If that wasn't your intention then be precise.

Next, you stated gang violence is on the rise.  I told you the number of incidents from 2007 to 2008 are the same.  You wanted to know, so I posted it.  If it's digging too deep, awesome.  Does that somehow make you right that incidents are on the rise?

You obviously are wondering why I'm arguing.  It's because you are posting blanket statements which apply to entire racial groups.  If you don't believe it applies from the entire group, then minimize your statement to the population you are focused on instead of "the entire community".

Ps.  Why did sagging originate in Japan?  It's called sarcasm.  The point you missed is, IMO it doesn't matter where it originated because the direct relationship between those who choose to wear their pants down to the number of people who decide to enter a gang is too small to worry about.  Yet, you've applied it to everyone who does it (or seems like you did because it was a blanket statement).  Also, I guess did you missed the post were I stated it started in prison, no? 

Well I guess I wasn't too tired after all.
2010-03-29 10:28:34
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

the fact that you even point out the racial background of any of the people you talk about is a clear sign of your unracism.
You are now claiming you can not talk about social issues, affirmative action, reverse discrimination, double standards, racism etc, .. and mention the races involved in such social issues? and to do so makes you a racist? Wow, ya just proved my point I have been making about how the liberals conduct an argument. congrats.

What a bunch of bullshit. not surprised however. Get back with me when you dig up at least 1 of "ALL the posts I have ever written", that fit the critera of racism.
Well, here's one post:

the original post that started our argument in this thread where the language was "the black community is being ripped apart" and where you said black people hero worship gang members rather than business & political leaders.

you are using universal language of a subset within that community and applying it to everyone in the community.
2010-03-29 14:37:03
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Pug wrote:

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

the fact that you even point out the racial background of any of the people you talk about is a clear sign of your unracism.
You are now claiming you can not talk about social issues, affirmative action, reverse discrimination, double standards, racism etc, .. and mention the races involved in such social issues? and to do so makes you a racist? Wow, ya just proved my point I have been making about how the liberals conduct an argument. congrats.

What a bunch of bullshit. not surprised however. Get back with me when you dig up at least 1 of "ALL the posts I have ever written", that fit the critera of racism.
Well, here's one post:

the original post that started our argument in this thread where the language was "the black community is being ripped apart" and where you said black people hero worship gang members rather than business & political leaders.

you are using universal language of a subset within that community and applying it to everyone in the community.
I see, so me and Bill Cosby ( for example) are racist? Or is it just me?

Fact is, the black community does have these problems. Pointing them out, discussing them openly does not make me a racist.



"There are so many people in the community going to prison you start to have the welfare effect, where it becomes acceptable - a rite of passage - for African American men to go to prison," said Hilary Shelton, director of the Washington bureau of the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People."
http://ronmull.tripod.com/racism.html




http://www.eightcitiesmap.com/transcript_bc.htm
2010-03-31 06:17:01
Pug
UR father's brother's nephew's former roommate
+652|6828|Texas - Bigger than France
I'm not sure if I did say that or not.

But the meaning is: your STATEMENT is racist
2010-03-31 07:25:16
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

Pug wrote:

I'm not sure if I did say that or not.

But the meaning is: your STATEMENT is racist
so instead of qualifying what I say as racist, you and are content with just merely dismissing it as such, and moving on? Even when called out on it, you feel no need to explain yourself?
2010-03-31 09:48:08
lowing
Banned
+1,662|6937|USA

lowing wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

the fact that you even point out the racial background of any of the people you talk about is a clear sign of your unracism.
You are now claiming you can not talk about social issues, affirmative action, reverse discrimination, double standards, racism etc, .. and mention the races involved in such social issues? and to do so makes you a racist? Wow, ya just proved my point I have been making about how the liberals conduct an argument. congrats.

What a bunch of bullshit. not surprised however. Get back with me when you dig up at least 1 of "ALL the posts I have ever written", that fit the critera of racism.
you accused me of abandoning threads, so why don't you get back in this one and explain this?

 

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