Health Care Bill passes congress, 219-212

2010-03-22 03:22:49

#51

Benzin: Member; +576|6283

Diesel_dyk wrote:
Time will tell if this is a good idea or not. It will no longer be a theoretical debate of doom and gloom and what ifs, we will now know, and that in itself is progress.

Besides no matter how emotional the argument was against passing this thing, we all know that doing nothing was not a good idea.

After the dust settles and everything gets finalized, we'll see what happens in the fall elections.

Now the focus can be on making sure that financial reform gets done. one blow to big insurance and next up a big blow to high finance speculators, little by little the people will take back this country. May be we can even dump the fed...

+1

JohnG@lt wrote:
I love how this is being touted as "Universal Health Care" by MSNBC... All they did was force people to buy health insurance. I fail to see how progressives can really claim a victory here. They didn't get the NHS they've always wanted.

Plus the prevention of denial based on preexisting conditions. I couldn't agree more with you, though, John.

2010-03-22 04:22:10

#52

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7094|Nårvei

Cybargs wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Good for the US population equals bad for the republicans ... guess this was the last nail in the coffin for bipartisanship this term ...
It's bad all around... 2000 pages of BS.

Calling it BS doesn't make it a fact ... please elaborate!

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-03-22 04:27:17

#53

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6695|'Murka

$1.2T to provide portability and prevent denial based on pre-existing conditions and NOT cover 30M Americans. And it'll likely be struck down as unconstitutional (forcing people to purchase health insurance).

Great plan.

Didn't somebody say we should scrap this piece of crap and start over based on what both sides could agree on (like portability and preventing denial based on pre-existing conditions)?

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-03-22 04:30:26

#54

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Varegg wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Good for the US population equals bad for the republicans ... guess this was the last nail in the coffin for bipartisanship this term ...
It's bad all around... 2000 pages of BS.
Calling it BS doesn't make it a fact ... please elaborate!

And people bitched about a 600 page Patriot Act.

The only reason why they would go to 2000 pages is to make people skim through the bad.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2010-03-22 04:42:26

#55

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7094|Nårvei

Cybargs wrote:
Varegg wrote:
Cybargs wrote:

It's bad all around... 2000 pages of BS.
Calling it BS doesn't make it a fact ... please elaborate!
And people bitched about a 600 page Patriot Act.

The only reason why they would go to 2000 pages is to make people skim through the bad.

And again ... what is BS about it?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-03-22 04:44:21

#56

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Varegg wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
Varegg wrote:

Calling it BS doesn't make it a fact ... please elaborate!
And people bitched about a 600 page Patriot Act.

The only reason why they would go to 2000 pages is to make people skim through the bad.
And again ... what is BS about it?

Individual mandate[5] Yes Yes Penalty tax or fine if coverage not carried
(See Insurance subsidies below)

Great. Now we fine people not having health care.

2010-03-22 04:47:17

#57

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7094|Nårvei

So out of 2000 pages of BS you found only 2 lines of text to back up your opinion ... are those 2 lines taken from the bill itself or from an interpretation of the bill you read on some random webpage?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-03-22 04:49:20

#58

Benzin: Member; +576|6283

Cybargs, that part of the bill actually does worry me. I have health insurance under my parents still since I am still a student (even though in another country), but that will soon run out, especially once I finish uni. At that point I have no real wish to go home to the US, so if I am living in a foreign country and never purchase any health insurance, I could potentially be fined. I don't know whether or not there is a provision in the bill for such a situation, as I haven't actually read the bill myself (I doubt many in Congress have, either).

2010-03-22 04:50:55

#59

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6390|eXtreme to the maX

FEOS wrote:
$1.2T to provide portability and prevent denial based on pre-existing conditions and NOT cover 30M Americans. And it'll likely be struck down as unconstitutional (forcing people to purchase health insurance).

Great plan.

Didn't somebody say we should scrap this piece of crap and start over based on what both sides could agree on (like portability and preventing denial based on pre-existing conditions)?

Does seem a bit of a mess TBH, the Dems just wanted to win something somehow.

Fuck Israel

2010-03-22 04:51:54

#60

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Varegg wrote:
So out of 2000 pages of BS you found only 2 lines of text to back up your opinion ... are those 2 lines taken from the bill itself or from an interpretation of the bill you read on some random webpage?

http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Read the bill yourself. I'm not going to waste my time giving you examples. Don't praise something until you read it. Yes I have read parts of it (Come on, that shit is thicker than a fucking book).

2010-03-22 05:02:35

#61

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7094|Nårvei

Cybargs wrote:
Varegg wrote:
So out of 2000 pages of BS you found only 2 lines of text to back up your opinion ... are those 2 lines taken from the bill itself or from an interpretation of the bill you read on some random webpage?
http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Read the bill yourself. I'm not going to waste my time giving you examples. Don't praise something until you read it. Yes I have read parts of it (Come on, that shit is thicker than a fucking book).

Well ... if you read the first 4 pages you grasp what the bill is all about ... the rest is just the indept explanation of the first 4.

I praise the idea behind the bill, I praise that when this bill is in effect it means no Americans can no longer be excluded from health insurence, and I applaude how the right wing nuts calls this a mix of communism and socialism ... Obama risks his second term for the good of the people, only history will judge him to be either the worst or maybe the best US president ...

This healt care bill is the best he can do for now ... a NHS bill that would be the ultimate bill for the people would never pass with all the selfish people working in congress ...

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-03-22 05:03:47

#62

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Good luck fining people who can't get health insurance.

2010-03-22 05:10:08

#63

13rin: Member; +977|6764

JohnG@lt wrote:
I love how this is being touted as "Universal Health Care" by MSNBC... All they did was force people to buy health insurance. I fail to see how progressives can really claim a victory here. They didn't get the NHS they've always wanted.

I don't see how this is a big victory either... They got other D's to agree?

I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something. - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.

2010-03-22 05:14:51

#64

Dilbert_X: The X stands for; +1,816|6390|eXtreme to the maX

Thank god for anti-abortion democrats.
^ Bet you never thought Obama would say that.

Fuck Israel

2010-03-22 05:15:50

#65

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Dilbert_X wrote:
Thank god for anti-abortion democrats.
^ Bet you never thought Obama would say that.

In the long run you save more money from raising a prom night dumpster baby. Crime drops too.

2010-03-22 05:16:33

#66

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7094|Nårvei

Cybargs wrote:
Good luck fining people who can't get health insurance.

On what page is this mentioned?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-03-22 05:16:46

#67

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6959|Canberra, AUS

DBBrinson1 wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
I love how this is being touted as "Universal Health Care" by MSNBC... All they did was force people to buy health insurance. I fail to see how progressives can really claim a victory here. They didn't get the NHS they've always wanted.
I don't see how this is a big victory either... They got other D's to agree?

Considering every Democratic president before Obama has tried and failed for, what, 60 years, it is a pretty major achievement.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-03-22 05:19:25

#68

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Varegg wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
Good luck fining people who can't get health insurance.
On what page is this mentioned?

Sec. 501. Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

Call it whatever you want, it's still a fine.

‘‘(a) TAX IMPOSED.—In the case of any individual
4 who does not meet the requirements of subsection (d) at
5 any time during the taxable year, there is hereby imposed
6 a tax equal to 2.5 percent of the excess of—
7 ‘‘(1) the taxpayer’s modified adjusted gross in8
come for the taxable year, over
9 ‘‘(2) the amount of gross income specified in
10 section 6012(a)(1) with respect to the taxpayer.
11 ‘‘(b) LIMITATIONS.—
12 ‘‘(1) TAX LIMITED TO AVERAGE PREMIUM.—
13 ‘‘(A) IN GENERAL.—The tax imposed
14 under subsection (a) with respect to any tax15
payer for any taxable year shall not exceed the
16 applicable national average premium for such
17 taxable year."

It forces people to buy health care. I hope the Supreme Court would throw this out.

2010-03-22 05:25:33

#69

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6959|Canberra, AUS

aren't there supposed to be subsidies to help people get insurance

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-03-22 05:30:26

#70

Mekstizzle: WALKER; +3,611|6905|London, England

So really it's actually just a great deal for the private insurers if it forces people to buy healthcare from them. But on the other hand it forces the insurers to not deny them coverage for health reasons, but all that would probably mean is the insurers will just set massive premiums for those that they are 'forced' to sign on. But then people won't accept that, so they'll just get taxed for not having health insurance, and then what?

This thread hasn't really provided any answers as to just exactly what this health care thing is, infact most Americans don't seem to have a clue what this bill is all about, what it actually does. Everyone just seems to be sprouting off the soundbites they got from their favourite media sources. Such as "oh noes/yay government healthcare" or "rip usa"

Do you guys actually know the details of this...? It doesn't look anything like the NHS or anything remotely like that

2010-03-22 05:33:34

#71

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Spark wrote:
aren't there supposed to be subsidies to help people get insurance

Medicaid already exists.

Edit: Mek its not a NHS bill, it's a bill to force people to buy insurance, but is trying to get insurance companies to remove some of their stuff about pre-existing conditions. Either way it is a BIG win for insurance companies.

Last edited by Cybargs (2010-03-22 05:35:00)

2010-03-22 05:52:34

#72

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7094|Nårvei

Cybargs wrote:
Spark wrote:
aren't there supposed to be subsidies to help people get insurance
Medicaid already exists.

Edit: Mek its not a NHS bill, it's a bill to force people to buy insurance, but is trying to get insurance companies to remove some of their stuff about pre-existing conditions. Either way it is a BIG win for insurance companies.

If it's such a big win for the insurence companies why did they deny most of these people insurence in the first place?

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

2010-03-22 05:54:34

#73

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6959|Canberra, AUS

Mekstizzle wrote:
So really it's actually just a great deal for the private insurers if it forces people to buy healthcare from them. But on the other hand it forces the insurers to not deny them coverage for health reasons, but all that would probably mean is the insurers will just set massive premiums for those that they are 'forced' to sign on. But then people won't accept that, so they'll just get taxed for not having health insurance, and then what?

This thread hasn't really provided any answers as to just exactly what this health care thing is, infact most Americans don't seem to have a clue what this bill is all about, what it actually does. Everyone just seems to be sprouting off the soundbites they got from their favourite media sources. Such as "oh noes/yay government healthcare" or "rip usa"

Do you guys actually know the details of this...? It doesn't look anything like the NHS or anything remotely like that

this post has truth

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-03-22 05:56:09

#74

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7001

Varegg wrote:
Cybargs wrote:
Spark wrote:
aren't there supposed to be subsidies to help people get insurance
Medicaid already exists.

Edit: Mek its not a NHS bill, it's a bill to force people to buy insurance, but is trying to get insurance companies to remove some of their stuff about pre-existing conditions. Either way it is a BIG win for insurance companies.
If it's such a big win for the insurence companies why did they deny most of these people insurence in the first place?

No this is a big win because it FORCES people to buy insurance no matter what. Now with the pre-existing condition thing, I could see them driving up prices. This bill makes matters worst, not better.

Remember insurance is gambling, forcing people to buy insurance and letting insurance companies allow pre-existing condition, would make their profits skyrocket.

2010-03-22 06:11:47

#75

Varegg: Support fanatic :-); +2,206|7094|Nårvei

Section 501 - Tax on individuals without acceptable health care coverage.

This section can be found starting on page 297 of the bill http://docs.house.gov/rules/health/111_ahcaa.pdf

Wait behind the line ..............................................................

BF2S Forums Health Care Bill passes congress, 219-212

Diesel_dyk wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Varegg wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Dilbert_X wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Spark wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Spark wrote:

Mekstizzle wrote:

Varegg wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Spark wrote:

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