BF2S Forums So Much For Obama The Socialist

Kmarion wrote:

DBBrinson1 wrote:

NASA?  Used to be the pride of the country.  Space race?  USA is the leader.  Why would the O want to change that? Hmnmm.

He wants to knee cap NASA?  Sure fits his MO of fucking up the country.  It is a laugh as to his "fiscal responsibility".  Go on.. Blame Bush.  Guess what thought?  The President doesn't make the budget.  I wonder now, who was the in control of the house and senate under the last budget writing during his reign.  This guy has spent more in his first year that was spent under the entire Bush years.  Come on.

NASA is already an international organization. No, not literally, but some of their top Scientist are not American. Dr. Rosaly Lopes for example.
Not that I mind. I'm glad there is collaboration going on.

We were going to turn the ISS completely over to the ESA before Barry canned the manned missions to the moon. I wonder what the plan is now. I don't mind Obama saying that the Orion program was overbudget and behind schedule.. it was. But who the fuck is he to say it lacked innovation? I'd love to hear him explain the pros and cons, unaided.

Well, to be fair, how often does the actual president know much about what he's talking about?  More often than not, the president is just a mouthpiece for the people behind him.

Tens of thousands of Florida's hi-tech jobs are about to be lost, along with America's leadership in space.

And its not just those 9,000 shuttle workers: around 14,000 more related jobs will be lost, with about 23,000 out of work, statewide.

What happened to this Obama? The Election Obama?

DBBrinson1 wrote:

it would be in the best interst for civilization for NASA to proceed that way.  That aside, at this time I have zero faith in other nations.

Russia, China, and Japan all have plans in place for manned missions to the moon and beyond.

Turquoise wrote:

I think we're past the point of it mattering.  We've had our era of being the last superpower, and it's coming to a close now.

This is only a natural part of the international market.  We can't expect to remain on top of things indefinitely.

That being said, I think maybe the best approach really is the libertarian one after all.  It seems somewhat foolish to move towards a socialized medical system when we don't even have border security.

How NASA fares really has little relevance to our overall economy.  Now is the time to cut programs across the board and pay down the national debt.

We also need to disband the Fed Reserve and completely reform our work visa system to properly integrate illegal workers into our economy.  One of the easier ways to do this is to make the visa program unlimited in the number of them allowed per year.  Phasing out SS and Medicare should be at the forefront of policy as well.

It matters. It's about jobs amrite? Do you really think the US is throwing in the towel?

Of course it matters.

Well.. I guess it depends on the time and venue eh?

“Under my watch, NASA will inspire the world once again and make America stronger and its going to help strengthen the economy right here in Brevard County.” That was candidate Barack Obama

He made that speech on the space coast just prior to his election. People seem to think we are leaving low earth orbit just for the hell of it... that is not the case. What do you think is motivating the Chinese and Russians? It's not just science. It the military and other economic endeavors.

Kmarion wrote:

It matters. It's about jobs amrite? Do you really think the US is throwing in the towel?

Of course it matters.

Not really...  NASA isn't a major employer.  Besides, the market is better at motivating research than the government.

Braddock wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

On the one hand, I like decreasing government spending overall.

On the other hand, one could argue that NASA is one of the few things that the government runs efficiently.

That sounds like a dangerously European point of view you've got there!

Is it just that Republicans and right-wing leaning individuals like to pick and choose what elements of Socialism they like and dislike? I mean are there any free-market Capitalist right-wingers out there who would advocate the privatisation of the police, the military, or even the postal service or libraries? Nationalised institutions are not inherently 'evil' or doomed to failure, in the same way that privatised institutions are not. Some stuff works best one way, and some the other, and it can be different for every country.

But getting back to my point, if Obama were truly the 'evil socialist' he's being made out to be by idiots like Glenn Beck et al. the last thing he'd be doing is privatising the most famous and celebrated Government-funded space exploration institution in the world.

We're not all intractable, even if you other guys are.

Cybargs wrote:

Obama is like Rudd. No economic plan. The best thing a country could have is a leader who has a strong understanding of economics.

Vote G@lt!

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

It matters. It's about jobs amrite? Do you really think the US is throwing in the towel?

Of course it matters.

Not really...  NASA isn't a major employer.  Besides, the market is better at motivating research than the government.

You believe this because you are thinking small. NASA has helped to create millions of jobs in the Tech and Medical industries. MRI's, cell phones, articfical limbs, infrared tech, LED tech, GPS..etc. Technology used to study space probe photographs is now being used to analyze human chromosomes. Other advances developed for monitoring changes in the Earth's atmosphere are now being used for the early detection of breast cancer. Light emitting diodes built for Space Shuttle plant experiments are being used to perform brain cancer surgery. It goes on and on.

Even if you aren't willing to think indirectly it's easy to recognize the 24k jobs that will be lost as a result of canceling the shuttle program. Those relatively few federal dollars are just going to go to the Russians to ferry humans to orbit at 50 million a pop. The shuttle program is also just a single part of NASA. They employ (some of the nations brightest) people all over the country (Ames, JPL, Goddard). The amount they employ may be small in comparison to what the military does, but the military isn't operating on 0.58% of the budgets discretionary spending. The military isn't making us money every time it launches a private rocket or sells a patent neither. The return we get, even if you take the pure scientific benefit out, is easily worth it.

Scientist are naturally motivated to research. NASA has plenty of them.

NASA is part of "the market" silly goose. Believe it or not, NASA is not in the business of building rockets.

Turquoise wrote:

Well, if it's any consolation, I believe we should cut the military budget in half as well.

Well, that would at least make a difference. Unemploying our top scientist? ntsomuch

Turquoise wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

Well, if it's any consolation, I believe we should cut the military budget in half as well.

Well, that would at least make a difference. Unemploying our top scientist? ntsomuch

I can agree with that.  Targeting NASA before targeting the military, SS, and farm subsidies is pretty stupid.

Especially when he is promoting other, lame programs. Like a bullet train from my hometown (Tampa) to Orlando. We actually voted it down because we did not want to pay for it. But hey, if the rest of you guys want to chip in? ..lol.

Burwhale wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

Obama is like Rudd. No economic plan. The best thing a country could have is a leader who has a strong understanding of economics.

What are you talking about . Last time I checked Australia didnt go through a recession, and our unemployment stayed at very low levels. As far as I know, Rudd was at the reigns. Sounds like the economic plan worked pretty well.

Half of that was just good "luck" from Rudd's point of view - the stimulus plans,  I think, have helped a lot though.