Ethiopia famine aid 'spent on weapons'

2010-03-06 15:42:18

#1

cl4u53w1t2: Salon-Bolschewist; +269|6759|Kakanien

Millions of dollars in Western aid for victims of the Ethiopian famine of 1984-85 was siphoned off by rebels to buy weapons, a BBC investigation finds.

Former rebel leaders told the BBC that they posed as merchants in meetings with charity workers to get aid money.

They used the cash to fund attempts to overthrow the government of the time.

One rebel leader estimated $95m (£63m) - from Western governments and charities including Band Aid - was channelled into the rebel fight.

The crisis in 1984 prompted a huge Western relief effort, spearheaded by pop star Bob Geldof's Band Aid campaign and Live Aid concerts.

Although millions of people were saved by the aid that poured into the country, evidence suggests not all of the aid went to the most needy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/8535189.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2oh3h3DvY0

2010-03-06 15:50:32

#2

Chou: Member; +737|7077

took 'em long enough to figure out.

2010-03-06 18:19:17

#3

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6691|North Carolina

Sadly, what might actually work better for helping some of these countries is a full scale occupation by Western powers.

Of course, that's not worth the effort of any Western power, because the West has a lot to lose and these countries have very little to lose.

2010-03-06 18:23:57

#4

ATG: Banned; +5,233|6815|Global Command

Yet, the bankers financing the arms deals to all sides will do just fine.

2010-03-06 18:26:32

#5

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6961|Canberra, AUS

ATG wrote:
Yet, the bankers financing the arms deals to all sides will do just fine.

because it must be the bankers, right?

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-03-06 19:10:46

#6

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6691|North Carolina

ATG wrote:
Yet, the bankers financing the arms deals to all sides will do just fine.

If it was easier to implement, barter would be a great system for trade.

2010-03-06 19:14:58

#7

13urnzz: Banned; +5,830|6783

Chou wrote:
took 'em long enough to figure out.

i think they figured it out sooner - the 'what', not the 'how'. it was evident almost immediately, and i recall the San Francisco Chronicle running a story about Band-Aid supplying the rebels. i only do because they quoted Bob Geldoff saying "What? Why would there be rebels?"

2010-03-06 20:15:26

#8

FEOS: Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate; +1,182|6697|'Murka

That's the problem with sending cash to aid these areas (like, say, Haiti). They are fraught with corruption. Cash is easy to feed corruption. Food and such is not nearly as easy. It takes real bastards to work food aid like that. You need Somali warlord bastards to do that.

“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein
Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

2010-03-06 22:02:38

#9

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7002

Fucking UN. Guns for gold scandal looooooooooooool.

UN Fun fact #2: All UN workers (From SG to Peacekeeper) has diplomatic immunity according to the UN Charter.

https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png

2010-03-07 01:18:33

#10

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5644|London, England

Turquoise wrote:
ATG wrote:
Yet, the bankers financing the arms deals to all sides will do just fine.
If it was easier to implement, barter would be a great system for trade.

The current monetary system IS a barter system. Money is only a representation of the goods that can be purchased with it. $1 by itself is valueless, it's a piece of paper, but I can take it to McDonald's and buy myself a cheeseburger. McDonald's can then take that $1 and buy something that it values, or pay it's employees.

What money really represents is time. If you make $5 an hour and wish to buy... say... Bad Company 2 for $50, you are trading ten hours of your time spent at work in order to purchase the game.

There's nothing evil about money and all attempts to abolish it are frankly idiotic.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-03-07 01:23:34

#11

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6439|what

Don't understand how bringing money into the country and handing it over to people is supposed to help anyway.

It's not like they can go down to the nearest WalMart and stock up on essential supplies.

2010-03-07 01:24:34

#12

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6961|Canberra, AUS

JohnG@lt wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
ATG wrote:
Yet, the bankers financing the arms deals to all sides will do just fine.
If it was easier to implement, barter would be a great system for trade.
The current monetary system IS a barter system. Money is only a representation of the goods that can be purchased with it. $1 by itself is valueless, it's a piece of paper, but I can take it to McDonald's and buy myself a cheeseburger. McDonald's can then take that $1 and buy something that it values, or pay it's employees.

What money really represents is time. If you make $5 an hour and wish to buy... say... Bad Company 2 for $50, you are trading ten hours of your time spent at work in order to purchase the game.

There's nothing evil about money and all attempts to abolish it are frankly idiotic.

For the most part, agree

AussieReaper wrote:
Don't understand how bringing money into the country and handing it over to people is supposed to help anyway.

It's not like they can go down to the nearest WalMart and stock up on essential supplies.

For the whole of it, agree

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-03-07 01:25:31

#13

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5644|London, England

AussieReaper wrote:
Don't understand how bringing money into the country and handing it over to people is supposed to help anyway.

It's not like they can go down to the nearest WalMart and stock up on essential supplies.

You ever tried buying a bum on the street a sandwich instead of giving him a dollar? They'll look at you like you have two heads and more than likely toss it in the trash.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

2010-03-07 01:32:24

#14

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6961|Canberra, AUS

JohnG@lt wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Don't understand how bringing money into the country and handing it over to people is supposed to help anyway.

It's not like they can go down to the nearest WalMart and stock up on essential supplies.
You ever tried buying a bum on the street a sandwich instead of giving him a dollar? They'll look at you like you have two heads and more than likely toss it in the trash.

That's part of the reason why the idea of quarantining welfare has a certain appeal, though it goes against one's ideological grain, I mean, the idea of "quarantining" someone's income just seems fundementally wrong.

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-03-07 01:33:07

#15

AussieReaper: ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°); +5,761|6439|what

JohnG@lt wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Don't understand how bringing money into the country and handing it over to people is supposed to help anyway.

It's not like they can go down to the nearest WalMart and stock up on essential supplies.
You ever tried buying a bum on the street a sandwich instead of giving him a dollar? They'll look at you like you have two heads and more than likely toss it in the trash.

What use is a credit card to a starving Ethiopian?

Did you miss the part in the thread title where the word famine was used?

2010-03-07 02:26:00

#16

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7002

AussieReaper wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
AussieReaper wrote:
Don't understand how bringing money into the country and handing it over to people is supposed to help anyway.

It's not like they can go down to the nearest WalMart and stock up on essential supplies.
You ever tried buying a bum on the street a sandwich instead of giving him a dollar? They'll look at you like you have two heads and more than likely toss it in the trash.
What use is a credit card to a starving Ethiopian?

Did you miss the part in the thread title where the word famine was used?

Most of the money goes to ding ding ding the government, who then use it to buy whatever the fuck they want.

Welcome to the world of the IMF, World Bank and the UN. If you really want to build up a country, send people there to construct infrastructure, hand out food, bring more efficient farming technology etc. The UN is the most useless organization when it comes to helping people.

Last edited by Cybargs (2010-03-07 04:12:31)

2010-03-07 02:30:12

#17

Ioan92: Member; +337|6008

Chou wrote:
took 'em long enough to figure out.

2010-03-07 02:55:01

#18

Spark: liquid fluoride thorium reactor; +874|6961|Canberra, AUS

The is the most useless organization when it comes to helping people.

I think you're missing UN at the beginning there? unless there is some organization called "the" I've not heard of

The paradox is only a conflict between reality and your feeling what reality ought to be.
^{~ Richard Feynman}

2010-03-07 04:13:17

#19

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7002

Spark wrote:
The is the most useless organization when it comes to helping people.
I think you're missing UN at the beginning there? unless there is some organization called "the" I've not heard of

Well they're missing in my text just like how they're missing in Africa

Fuck lol edited <3

2010-03-07 04:14:43

#20

jord: Member; +2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

Aid not going to the needy in Africa? Shit merlin

2010-03-07 04:19:59

#21

Cybargs: Moderated; +2,285|7002

jord wrote:
Aid not going to the needy in Africa? Shit merlin

I remember how in MUN kids kept on saying "Africa need more Aids, we must send more aids to desperate places in Africa."

Most hilarious shit until everyone kept on saying aids instead of aid. Then it was sad.

2010-03-07 04:25:23

#22

jord: Member; +2,382|6964|The North, beyond the wall.

Cybargs wrote:
jord wrote:
Aid not going to the needy in Africa? Shit merlin
I remember how in MUN kids kept on saying "Africa need more Aids, we must send more aids to desperate places in Africa."

Most hilarious shit until everyone kept on saying aids instead of aid. Then it was sad.

Lol, it's still funny

2010-03-07 05:36:46

#23

mcminty: Moderating your content for the Australian Govt.; +879|7007|Sydney, Australia

Cybargs wrote:
Most of the money goes to ding ding ding the government, who then use it to buy whatever the fuck they want.

Which is of course different to what the people actually need.. *cough*

2010-03-07 11:06:27

#24

Turquoise: O Canada; +1,596|6691|North Carolina

JohnG@lt wrote:
Turquoise wrote:
ATG wrote:
Yet, the bankers financing the arms deals to all sides will do just fine.
If it was easier to implement, barter would be a great system for trade.
The current monetary system IS a barter system. Money is only a representation of the goods that can be purchased with it. $1 by itself is valueless, it's a piece of paper, but I can take it to McDonald's and buy myself a cheeseburger. McDonald's can then take that $1 and buy something that it values, or pay it's employees.

What money really represents is time. If you make $5 an hour and wish to buy... say... Bad Company 2 for $50, you are trading ten hours of your time spent at work in order to purchase the game.

There's nothing evil about money and all attempts to abolish it are frankly idiotic.

I think the issue is how money can be easier to manipulate in terms of appreciation than a simple barter system would be. For example, a cow can't be kept in a pasture for a year and earn interest.

It's the manipulations of money that some people find deceptive, and given the recent corruption we've seen on Wall Street, I can't blame them.

2010-03-07 11:13:17

#25

Jay: Bork! Bork! Bork!; +2,006|5644|London, England

Turquoise wrote:
JohnG@lt wrote:
Turquoise wrote:

If it was easier to implement, barter would be a great system for trade.
The current monetary system IS a barter system. Money is only a representation of the goods that can be purchased with it. $1 by itself is valueless, it's a piece of paper, but I can take it to McDonald's and buy myself a cheeseburger. McDonald's can then take that $1 and buy something that it values, or pay it's employees.

What money really represents is time. If you make $5 an hour and wish to buy... say... Bad Company 2 for $50, you are trading ten hours of your time spent at work in order to purchase the game.

There's nothing evil about money and all attempts to abolish it are frankly idiotic.
I think the issue is how money can be easier to manipulate in terms of appreciation than a simple barter system would be. For example, a cow can't be kept in a pasture for a year and earn interest.

It's the manipulations of money that some people find deceptive, and given the recent corruption we've seen on Wall Street, I can't blame them.

Well, the alternative to the current fiat system is a gold or silver based system. Either way, it's a system that is rather hazy. The person on the other end of the trade would have to WANT your gold or silver in order for it to work. In a stable environment it works well. If there's a famine, no amount of gold, silver or paper currency in the world would convince a farmer to sell you his cow.

The idea that a currency has to be 'backed' by something is comforting to people but hardly necessary. However, I do appreciate backed currency for one simple reason, it's nigh on impossible to debase it without a revolt. Fiat money can be debased at will and the populace is none the wiser 99% of the time. I'm surprised though, you of all people I would expect to appreciate the built in 2% inflation rate that forces people to work until retirement age.

"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat

BF2S Forums Ethiopia famine aid 'spent on weapons'

ATG wrote:

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Chou wrote:

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JohnG@lt wrote:

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Chou wrote:

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Cybargs wrote:

jord wrote:

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