BF2S Forums Things warm up in the luke warm cold war

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Vilham wrote:

By the time NATO reaches them its a bit late, and if NATO doesn't provide on the spot defense to its members it makes it look weak and hard to take seriously.

really? when was the last time you lookerd at the world map, dude?

Indeed... Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine all buffer Poland. You guys do have the area around Königsberg though shahter... Should really give that back to Germany one of these years...

since when lithuania, belarus or ukraine posed any threat to poland (or to anybody for that matter)?

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

really? when was the last time you lookerd at the world map, dude?

Indeed... Lithuania, Belarus and Ukraine all buffer Poland. You guys do have the area around Königsberg though shahter... Should really give that back to Germany one of these years...

since when lithuania, belarus or ukraine posed any threat to poland (or to anybody for that matter)?

They don't, I was saying they are Poland's buffer against Russia.

Longbow wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

You guys do have the area around Königsberg though shahter... Should really give that back to Germany one of these years...

In case you guys return Alaska

We bought Alaska... You conquered and kept Prussia, which, incidentally, is where my father's family was from...

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Shahter wrote:

since when lithuania, belarus or ukraine posed any threat to poland (or to anybody for that matter)?

They don't, I was saying they are Poland's buffer against Russia.

ah, i see. for a minute there i thought you were implying those countries would play on russia's side. in belarus' case i could probably imagine that, but to think ukraine and espesially lithuania allying themselves with russia is completely bollocks.

The Patriots are to go along the border with East Prussia (I refuse to call it Kaliningrad), which you do own though.

Longbow wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

We bought Alaska...

IIRC it was kind of renting, for 99 years or so. 99 years renting expired 40 or 50 years ago.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaska_Purchase

JohnG@lt wrote:

Longbow wrote:

Königsberg and territory around it is a small price for what nazi germany did in 1941-1945. I doubt Russia will ever return it, as it's also strategically important naval base in Baltic sea.

Russia wasn't exactly innocent... My grandmother survived the firebombing of Dresden only to be raped by Russian soldiers and sent to a gulag in Siberia. My uncle Heinz is half Russian...

No side during the war was innocent, we all did some crazy shit. The japanese burned people alive with gasoline. The Allies pillaged and shot innocents. We all know what the krauts did. The Ruskies burned, pillaged, raped, etc etc etc. (the etc etc etc. is for all the nations) No one is innocent.

seymorebutts443 wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Longbow wrote:

Königsberg and territory around it is a small price for what nazi germany did in 1941-1945. I doubt Russia will ever return it, as it's also strategically important naval base in Baltic sea.

Russia wasn't exactly innocent... My grandmother survived the firebombing of Dresden only to be raped by Russian soldiers and sent to a gulag in Siberia. My uncle Heinz is half Russian...

No side during the war was innocent, we all did some crazy shit. The japanese burned people alive with gasoline. The Allies pillaged and shot innocents. We all know what the krauts did. The Ruskies burned, pillaged, raped, etc etc etc. (the etc etc etc. is for all the nations) No one is innocent.

Read some books on the Russian advance into Eastern Europe and you will be appalled by the things they did. The Allies ofc had soldier that decided to pillage and rape. The Russian military right from the top, encouraged it.

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Longbow wrote:

Königsberg and territory around it is a small price for what nazi germany did in 1941-1945. I doubt Russia will ever return it, as it's also strategically important naval base in Baltic sea.

Russia wasn't exactly innocent... My grandmother survived the firebombing of Dresden only to be raped by Russian soldiers and sent to a gulag in Siberia. My uncle Heinz is half Russian...

you keep mentioning that like it's something you are proud of, man. so, yeah, your family has a thing for russians, i got it. do you know how many russians were killed in ww2? how many women raped? how many children left orphan? tell me: how many russians have you seen bashing germany for that?

As if they wouldn't. Though i'd like to know what you think of Stalin. Since often what I hear from Russians is the glorified story.

Shahter wrote:

JohnG@lt wrote:

Longbow wrote:

Königsberg and territory around it is a small price for what nazi germany did in 1941-1945. I doubt Russia will ever return it, as it's also strategically important naval base in Baltic sea.

Russia wasn't exactly innocent... My grandmother survived the firebombing of Dresden only to be raped by Russian soldiers and sent to a gulag in Siberia. My uncle Heinz is half Russian...

you keep mentioning that like it's something you are proud of, man. so, yeah, your family has a thing for russians, i got it. do you know how many russians were killed in ww2? how many women raped? how many children left orphan? tell me: how many russians have you seen bashing germany for that?

Indeed how many women were raped.... by Russian soldiers. They raped their own women ffs and weren't discouraged to because those women were "traitors".

Vilham wrote:

Read some books on the Russian advance into Eastern Europe and you will be appalled by the things they did. The Allies ofc had soldier that decided to pillage and rape. The Russian military right from the top, encouraged it.

some books you read there, man.

One im reading right now: Berlin by Antony Beever

Vilham wrote:

Shahter wrote:

really? when was the last time you lookerd at the world map, dude?

The Russians would plow through Belarus in a day if the they wanted to.

look at the map again. do you see anything to "plow through" for nato forces to get to poland?

It does take time to prepare an army... if the russians have already done that (which they would to have to attack in the first place) they have a pretty big advantage.

Shahter wrote:

Though i'd like to know what you think of Stalin. Since often what I hear from Russians is the glorified story.

what would ou like me to say? that he was a maniac who ate newborn children alive? he had to run ussr and he did it the way it was supposed to be run. he took over russia with a horse and a plow and left it with nuclear weapons. the price to pay was horrible, but there wasn't any other way, unless of course you prefer nazies to soviets.

I would have preferred neither, but no one asked back then. I sort of agree with you, but does the cause justify it? Holodomor, katyn and so forth.

and about the topic, NATO isn't allowed to position air defense batteries in post-Soviet bloc countries? Why? Most of Eastern Europe is part of NATO and we already have German F4's paroling the skies.

Last edited by BALTINS (2010-02-24 12:35:53)

Vilham wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Vilham wrote:

One im reading right now: Berlin by Antony Beever

well... matrix has you.

Are you really trying to disprove one of the most thorough historical authors out there with that comment? The majority of the documentation he references are Russian documents ffs. Open your eyes.

Shahter wrote:

since when did russia (or anybody) have an invisible army to prepare?

Russia wouldn't need to mobilize much of its forces to overpower belarus. Or do you think every time Russia is preparing for training maneuvers (which would be perfect cover for invasion) NATO mobilizes its forces just incase, ofc they don't. Then theres the fact that a lot of preparation is in the planning not in the logistics, something that can easily be done in secret.

I remember the Russian movement into Georgia was very much a surprise. It was essentially hidden in a military exercise.

BALTINS wrote:

Shahter wrote:

Though i'd like to know what you think of Stalin. Since often what I hear from Russians is the glorified story.

what would ou like me to say? that he was a maniac who ate newborn children alive? he had to run ussr and he did it the way it was supposed to be run. he took over russia with a horse and a plow and left it with nuclear weapons. the price to pay was horrible, but there wasn't any other way, unless of course you prefer nazies to soviets.

I would have preferred neither, but no one asked back then. I sort of agree with you, but does the cause justify it? Holodomor, katyn and so forth.

you ask me, a guy you met on internet forums to answer that for you? i don't know. it all happened. i don't think it could have been done any other way though. stalin had to run what he had to run, the methods he had chosen were adequate, that much i can tell you with confidence - the problem was in the system which was already there before stalin went to power, unlike hitler's germany. call him a monster, but stalin was one of the most - pehaps THE most powerfull and extraordinary individual of 20th century. his understanding of international politics, economics and societal rules were just about unmatched. not many speak about it, but even at his time stalin already envisioned what he called smthing like "socialist market" which was build by chineese decades later. unfortunately, that wouldn't work in russia.

BALTINS wrote:

and about the topic, NATO isn't allowed to position air defense batteries in post-Soviet bloc countries? Why? Most of Eastern Europe is part of NATO and we already have German F4's paroling the skies.

they are allowed to do whatever they like. how the fuck would anybody disallow them anything? - they are the NATO ffs. but russia is allowed to respond the way it sees fit. end of story.

Cybargs wrote:

Yet when Israel needs to do things that are "necessary" you call them genocidal maniacs who are bent on world domination.

I call them that?