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Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire
...A Film About How All Of Us Have Become Richard Nixon.



Some of you may have seen this short film by Adam Curtis on Newswipe recently. I found it incredibly depressing because it rings very true. People often talk about how we are in danger of sliding into a 1984 style society when the reality is we're already there. Mass media and technology has ironically made us more ignorant because where before we had no expert knowledge or frame of reference on complex issues, we now have the illusion of being 'well-informed'. These 'well-informed' people then go off and write blogs that other 'well-informed' people use to inform their own opinions, and now even newspapers will base entire stories on these 'well-informed' blogs, which go on to form the opinions of the people writing the blogs in the first place... a self-fulfilling cycle of bullshit. A quick glance through the D&ST section here will give you an idea as to the extent of the problem. As access to more and more information from around the world has increased we have apparently become more and more self-obsessed, we delude ourselves that our opinions matter and that we are all an authority on the latest hot topic. Truth no longer exists, instead it has been replaced with an 'accepted narrative' of what happened.

Last edited by Braddock (2010-02-17 05:38:57)

ATG
Banned
+5,233|5487|Global Command
Yes.

Search engine university.
ruisleipa
Member
+149|5180|teh FIN-land
wikipedia ftw

?
13rin
Member
+977|5437
The chicken little syndrome is alive and well (global warming, Mad cow, Swine Flu, Avian Flu).  Scary shit sells.  New agencies aren't really about the news anymore.   More interested in the bottom line.

I disagree with the idea of a self-fufilling cycle of bullshit you see in DST.  One side makes a claim, another side trys to ro shreds it.  Various sources are presented, some rejected, some accepted.  Google warrior and wikipediaites granted -I'd rather see sources to support someone's ideals rather then someone just spouting out their ass.

Being skeptical is one thing, blindly beleving what you read/see is another.  My opinions don't matter in the grand scale of things, but in my small circle of family, friends and work -they are paramount.   I'd much rather have 10 sources to formulate an opinion on any subject instead of a spoon fed 10 minute propagandized report from a "hard hitting journalist" at NBC/ABC/CBS.  I would think you would be the same way, in favor of many different views/reports as to two news outlets reporting the same slant.   If that make me more Nixonesque the so be it. 

Or what was that saying Orwell made up?  Ingorance is bliss.  But wait a second it was Thomas Gray... Would have had egg on my face there. Thank lord google and his son wiki eh?
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England
Braddock you seem to have lost a bit of your idealism all of a sudden. You just now realized that you're one of 6,000,000,000 voices on this planet? If anyone is self-obsessed it's the man naive enough to think he will have an impact on the world and try to change it.

First you lose your belief in democracy, and now you find out that you're insignificant to the world? Rough two days
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

DBBrinson1 wrote:

The chicken little syndrome is alive and well (global warming, Mad cow, Swine Flu, Avian Flu).  Scary shit sells.  New agencies aren't really about the news anymore.   More interested in the bottom line.

I disagree with the idea of a self-fufilling cycle of bullshit you see in DST.  One side makes a claim, another side trys to ro shreds it.  Various sources are presented, some rejected, some accepted.  Google warrior and wikipediaites granted -I'd rather see sources to support someone's ideals rather then someone just spouting out their ass.

Being skeptical is one thing, blindly beleving what you read/see is another.  My opinions don't matter in the grand scale of things, but in my small circle of family, friends and work -they are paramount.   I'd much rather have 10 sources to formulate an opinion on any subject instead of a spoon fed 10 minute propagandized report from a "hard hitting journalist" at NBC/ABC/CBS.  I would think you would be the same way, in favor of many different views/reports as to two news outlets reporting the same slant.   If that make me more Nixonesque the so be it. 

Or what was that saying Orwell made up?  Ingorance is bliss.  But wait a second it was Thomas Gray... Would have had egg on my face there. Thank lord google and his son wiki eh?
You hit the nail on the head in your third paragraph. I fail to understand why people expect to become well informed by watching anything on tv. Whether it's the history channel, discovery channel or the news, they only spoonfeed you what they'll get the most viewers to watch. Since the vast majority of people on this planet are stupid (remember, 100 IQ is the average, meaning 50% are below even that benchmark), you get fed what they can stomach. It brings you down to their level more than it raises them up to yours (if you are indeed above that 100 IQ threshold). Read a book.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5369|'Murka

If people stop at wiki and don't actually read the source document from which the wiki page is compiled, then you're spot on. Otherwise, it's just people not bothering to actually research anything. Google isn't a bad thing. It's nothing more than an automated card catalog at your local library...just no fucking Dewey Decimal System to worry about.

The problem lies when people read one or two blogs and think they know the facts about a topic. That is akin to reading the op-ed section of a newspaper and thinking you have the complete picture of a topic--or watching Olbermann or Hannity and thinking you're getting the complete picture of a topic. At best, all it can do is start you on the research path. Anyone worth their salt will look at points of view that they do not agree with in their research, as well to better understand the topic holistically. Unfortunately, that rarely (if ever) happens in the "objective" media...much less on D&ST.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Ticia
Member
+73|4293

Braddock wrote:

...A Film About How All Of Us Have Become Richard Nixon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxV3_bG1EHA]

Some of you may have seen this short film by Adam Curtis on Newswipe recently. I found it incredibly depressing because it rings very true. People often talk about how we are in danger of sliding into a 1984 style society when the reality is we're already there. Mass media and technology has ironically made us more ignorant because where before we had no expert knowledge or frame of reference on complex issues, we now have the illusion of being 'well-informed'. These 'well-informed' people then go off and write blogs that other 'well-informed' people use to inform their own opinions, and now even newspapers will base entire stories on these 'well-informed' blogs, which go on to form the opinions of the people writing the blogs in the first place... a self-fulfilling cycle of bullshit. A quick glance through the D&ST section here will give you an idea as to the extent of the problem. As access to more and more information from around the world has increased we have apparently become more and more self-obsessed, we delude ourselves that our opinions matter and that we are all an authority on the latest hot topic. Truth no longer exists, instead it has been replaced with an 'accepted narrative' of what happened.
When did this truth you speak of ever existed?
If there was a time most were ignorant now we only have access to information through the media (TV,newspapers,web and so on),the mass media controlled by the propaganda model that Chomsky and Herman talked about more than 20 years ago. This is the world we've always known.
ruisleipa
Member
+149|5180|teh FIN-land
I hate blogs pretty much fullstop rly. "a self-fulfilling cycle of bullshit" indeed.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire

[email protected] wrote:

Braddock you seem to have lost a bit of your idealism all of a sudden. You just now realized that you're one of 6,000,000,000 voices on this planet? If anyone is self-obsessed it's the man naive enough to think he will have an impact on the world and try to change it.

First you lose your belief in democracy, and now you find out that you're insignificant to the world? Rough two days
You don't know me well enough John, I've always been a cynical, embittered curmudgeon!

I do however, think there has been a significant shift in the way the power structures of the world do business in the last 15 to 20 years. Remember when talking about the 'new world order' used to mean you were a conspiracy theorist quack? Now they don't even bother to hide such things... and elected officials seem more brazen than ever when it comes to ignoring the voice of the people who elected them. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that big private companies and multinationals are the de facto rulers of many nations these days. The biggest impact Globalisation has had on the world as we know it, aside from the obvious cultural and day-to-day economic effects, is that it has effectively removed the notion of borders and discrete countries when it comes to private businesses.
AussieReaper
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
+5,760|5111|what

Media does nothing but report this days, there is no more media investigations.

Or journalistic integrity.
https://i.imgur.com/maVpUMN.png

"coz you a far cry from acclaim nigga ubisoft"
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire

Ticia wrote:

Braddock wrote:

...A Film About How All Of Us Have Become Richard Nixon.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxV3_bG1EHA]

Some of you may have seen this short film by Adam Curtis on Newswipe recently. I found it incredibly depressing because it rings very true. People often talk about how we are in danger of sliding into a 1984 style society when the reality is we're already there. Mass media and technology has ironically made us more ignorant because where before we had no expert knowledge or frame of reference on complex issues, we now have the illusion of being 'well-informed'. These 'well-informed' people then go off and write blogs that other 'well-informed' people use to inform their own opinions, and now even newspapers will base entire stories on these 'well-informed' blogs, which go on to form the opinions of the people writing the blogs in the first place... a self-fulfilling cycle of bullshit. A quick glance through the D&ST section here will give you an idea as to the extent of the problem. As access to more and more information from around the world has increased we have apparently become more and more self-obsessed, we delude ourselves that our opinions matter and that we are all an authority on the latest hot topic. Truth no longer exists, instead it has been replaced with an 'accepted narrative' of what happened.
When did this truth you speak of ever existed?
If there was a time most were ignorant now we only have access to information through the media (TV,newspapers,web and so on),the mass media controlled by the propaganda model that Chomsky and Herman talked about more than 20 years ago. This is the world we've always known.
The closest thing we've ever had to 'truth' (empirical truth) is peer-reviewed academic journals and papers... and now even these are being second-guessed and dismissed as though they were no better than blogs. The climate-gate scandal is an example of this... 100s of people dismissing scientific documents because of soundbites they've heard in the news. How many people have taken the time to read through the data to see where the discrepancies lie? Not many, we just hear a bit here and there and then argue on a forum about it as though we have the slightest fucking clue.

Or worse still (much worse), the academics themselves are indeed discarding their professional practice and embracing the fallacious approach taken by the mass media in order to sell an agenda.

Last edited by Braddock (2010-02-17 15:19:32)

Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5363|North Carolina

[email protected] wrote:

Braddock you seem to have lost a bit of your idealism all of a sudden. You just now realized that you're one of 6,000,000,000 voices on this planet? If anyone is self-obsessed it's the man naive enough to think he will have an impact on the world and try to change it.

First you lose your belief in democracy, and now you find out that you're insignificant to the world? Rough two days
Well, it depends on the impact you want to have.

All it took was 19 people killing about 3,000 to make the most powerful nation push forward a whole new era of foreign policy directed at counterterrorism and "pre-emptive strikes."

All it took was one assassin to start World War 1.

One person or just a few working together can make a very large impact on the world, but it's much easier for that impact to be negative than to be positive....
ruisleipa
Member
+149|5180|teh FIN-land

FEOS wrote:

The problem lies when people read one or two blogs and think they know the facts about a topic.
ya mean like this?

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/20 … latestnews

and

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=135190

I totally agree.
Shahter
Zee Ruskie
+295|5733|Moscow, Russia

Braddock wrote:

I do however, think there has been a significant shift in the way the power structures of the world do business in the last 15 to 20 years. Remember when talking about the 'new world order' used to mean you were a conspiracy theorist quack? Now they don't even bother to hide such things... and elected officials seem more brazen than ever when it comes to ignoring the voice of the people who elected them. I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that big private companies and multinationals are the de facto rulers of many nations these days. The biggest impact Globalisation has had on the world as we know it, aside from the obvious cultural and day-to-day economic effects, is that it has effectively removed the notion of borders and discrete countries when it comes to private businesses.
well, there you go - industrial capitalism has finally transformed into financial capitalism. deal with it.
if you open your mind too much your brain will fall out.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

ruisleipa wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The problem lies when people read one or two blogs and think they know the facts about a topic.
ya mean like this?

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/20 … latestnews

and

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=135190

I totally agree.
That one really bothered you huh? It was an opinion article that I posted here to see how people would react. Once they got past the initial 'zomg it's the daily mail how could you!?' everyone pretty much agreed that it was possible. I don't see why you keep harping on it.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5369|'Murka

ruisleipa wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The problem lies when people read one or two blogs and think they know the facts about a topic.
ya mean like this?

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/20 … latestnews

and

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=135190

I totally agree.
John Stossel is probably one of the last serious investigative journalists out there. He does temper is stories with humor (as evidenced by his blog entry). If you ever watch or read any of his serious stories, you'll see he generally has his feces co-located when it comes to journalistic approach. Which is noticeable, as it is so rare nowadays.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

FEOS wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The problem lies when people read one or two blogs and think they know the facts about a topic.
ya mean like this?

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/20 … latestnews

and

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=135190

I totally agree.
John Stossel is probably one of the last serious investigative journalists out there. He does temper is stories with humor (as evidenced by his blog entry). If you ever watch or read any of his serious stories, you'll see he generally has his feces co-located when it comes to journalistic approach. Which is noticeable, as it is so rare nowadays.
He's a libertarian to boot
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4217|foggy bottom

FEOS wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The problem lies when people read one or two blogs and think they know the facts about a topic.
ya mean like this?

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/20 … latestnews

and

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=135190

I totally agree.
John Stossel is probably one of the last serious investigative journalists out there. He does temper is stories with humor (as evidenced by his blog entry). If you ever watch or read any of his serious stories, you'll see he generally has his feces co-located when it comes to journalistic approach. Which is noticeable, as it is so rare nowadays.
John Stossel is a douche.  On that note, Im off to class.
Tu Stultus Es
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5363|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The problem lies when people read one or two blogs and think they know the facts about a topic.
ya mean like this?

http://stossel.blogs.foxbusiness.com/20 … latestnews

and

http://forums.bf2s.com/viewtopic.php?id=135190

I totally agree.
John Stossel is probably one of the last serious investigative journalists out there. He does temper is stories with humor (as evidenced by his blog entry). If you ever watch or read any of his serious stories, you'll see he generally has his feces co-located when it comes to journalistic approach. Which is noticeable, as it is so rare nowadays.
In other words, you like him because you agree with him.

It's ok, I don't like him, because I don't agree with him.

But let's not pretend the guy is objective.  Objectivity in humans is mostly nonexistent.  Not that it really matters anyway...

Even if the media somehow broke the mold of human nature and objectively reported everything, people would still color everything with their prejudices.  The majority of reality is merely perception....
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5369|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

John Stossel is probably one of the last serious investigative journalists out there. He does temper is stories with humor (as evidenced by his blog entry). If you ever watch or read any of his serious stories, you'll see he generally has his feces co-located when it comes to journalistic approach. Which is noticeable, as it is so rare nowadays.
In other words, you like him because you agree with him.

It's ok, I don't like him, because I don't agree with him.

But let's not pretend the guy is objective.  Objectivity in humans is mostly nonexistent.  Not that it really matters anyway...

Even if the media somehow broke the mold of human nature and objectively reported everything, people would still color everything with their prejudices.  The majority of reality is merely perception....
No. Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't always agree with him. There are other reporters I think have their shit together that I agree with far less than I do Stossel. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with his opinion pieces. It's a matter of appreciating his work ethic on his investigative pieces.

You are truly one of the most cynical human beings on the planet, Turq. Poisonously so.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5363|North Carolina

FEOS wrote:

No. Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't always agree with him. There are other reporters I think have their shit together that I agree with far less than I do Stossel. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with his opinion pieces. It's a matter of appreciating his work ethic on his investigative pieces.

You are truly one of the most cynical human beings on the planet, Turq. Poisonously so.
I'm actually quite flattered.   I don't really know how to respond to that....  um.... Thanks 
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5369|'Murka

Turquoise wrote:

FEOS wrote:

No. Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't always agree with him. There are other reporters I think have their shit together that I agree with far less than I do Stossel. It's not a matter of agreeing or disagreeing with his opinion pieces. It's a matter of appreciating his work ethic on his investigative pieces.

You are truly one of the most cynical human beings on the planet, Turq. Poisonously so.
I'm actually quite flattered.   I don't really know how to respond to that....  um.... Thanks 
You really shouldn't be.

Really.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular
ruisleipa
Member
+149|5180|teh FIN-land

FEOS wrote:

No. Don't put words in my mouth.
Hypocrite.
FEOS
Bellicose Yankee Air Pirate
+1,182|5369|'Murka

ruisleipa wrote:

FEOS wrote:

No. Don't put words in my mouth.
Hypocrite.
No u.
“Everybody is a genius. But if you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree, it will live its whole life believing that it is stupid.”
― Albert Einstein

Doing the popular thing is not always right. Doing the right thing is not always popular

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