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steelie34
pub hero!
+603|5339|the land of bourbon
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ynews/ynews_ts1134

In an interview on MSNBC this morning, newly retiring Sen. Evan Bayh declared the American political system "dysfunctional," riddled with "brain-dead partisanship" and permanent campaigning. Flatly denying any possibility that he'd seek the presidency or any other higher office, Bayh argued that the American people needed to deliver a "shock" to Congress by voting incumbents out in mass and replacing them with people interested in reforming the process and governing for the good of the people, rather than deep-pocketed special-interest groups.



the statements above are precisely the reason i do not vote, and until candidates who actually care start running for office, i won't.
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eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4217|foggy bottom
I guarantee  youll see Evan Bayh in the public eye again, or maybe a conservative think tank.
Tu Stultus Es
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England
The guy that should stay, leaves. The guys that shouldn't stay, stay. Sad day.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4217|foggy bottom
because Bayh is the every man
Tu Stultus Es
13rin
Member
+977|5437
Partisianship? Please.  Even with a super majority the d's couldn't rahm things through.  Why the hell should the r's roll over caving to socialist agendas?  Washington has been like that and will continue to be like that.  Partisanship?  Who locked the R's out of meetings on healthcare?  Who has reject job bills and alternate budgets and healthcare proposals?  Dude was facing a tough political fight.  He sees the writing on the wall.  Fall on your sword for the O and take a pot shot on the way out.  Sad.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|5607

It's too bad he's quitting, seems like he's one of very few politicians who are willing to accept how fucked up the system is.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4217|foggy bottom
DB, the reason the D's couldnt do it was so they would have a chance at trying to get your vote in november.  Obviously they are morons.  To be honest, these fuckers have had the ultimate majority since last year and havent accomplished shit.  They should have done what the GOP did, not give a fuck.  Since they didnt, they deserve to lose their majority.  Only thing I dont want replacing them though is those tea bag ass holes.
Tu Stultus Es
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|5607

Agreed, if Obama wanted to get shit done, he should have just forced it through whilst he could, and whilst he still had the majority of popular support behind him.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

DB, the reason the D's couldnt do it was so they would have a chance at trying to get your vote in november.  Obviously they are morons.  To be honest, these fuckers have had the ultimate majority since last year and havent accomplished shit.  They should have done what the GOP did, not give a fuck.  Since they didnt, they deserve to lose their majority.  Only thing I dont want replacing them though is those tea bag ass holes.
Tea bag 'assholes'? Why don't you like them? Yes, there are a bunch of morons in the crowd but the vast majority of those involved want fiscal responsibility, the deficit paid off etc. Those are noble and worthy goals. The moron count is more than offset by the Che Guevara t-shirt wearing idiots at liberal rallies
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
13rin
Member
+977|5437

eleven bravo wrote:

DB, the reason the D's couldnt do it was so they would have a chance at trying to get your vote in november.  Obviously they are morons.  To be honest, these fuckers have had the ultimate majority since last year and havent accomplished shit.  They should have done what the GOP did, not give a fuck.  Since they didnt, they deserve to lose their majority.  Only thing I dont want replacing them though is those tea bag ass holes.
The couldn't stay on the same page.  Some were pissed it go that far left.  Why though if they are truly "carrying out the peoples will" in legislation are they concerned about being reelected.  One would think that if they are doing the will of the voter then they wouldn't have to worry about their November. 

The D's did what they wanted to and didn't give a fuck.  For example, see the spending bill that no one bothered to read.  Along with bank bailouts auto industry takeovers -they did it to themselves.  Honestly, I don't want the tea guys' morality either -but I do want fiscal responsibility back in government.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
13rin
Member
+977|5437

ghettoperson wrote:

Agreed, if Obama wanted to get shit done, he should have just forced it through whilst he could, and whilst he still had the majority of popular support behind him.
He tried that and in many cases got away with it.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4217|foggy bottom
Ill give you the spending bill and the budget.  But, can you truthfully say that if McCain had won the election or if Bush had served a 3rd term (in another universe where that would have been legal) that the bail outs wouldnt have happened?


about the tea guys, John, those are great ideals.  So is world peace, equal justice and puppies for everyone. Its not like these ideals are specific to the tea party movement.  What I have noticed though is that their momentum started last year around this time when the issue of health reform first came up.  before there was anything written, these idiots were screaming "Read the Bill!" which just tells me more about the mentality of that movement rather than their platform.  Also, what can not be stressed enough from my point of view is the fact that I believe (and there really isnt anything that could change that belief) that racism is a HUGE motivating factor in a person's commitment to that movement.  The fact that i am a person of color and the son of immigrants (legal, sad that i have to specify that, they were political refugees from the DR and Nicaragua) also plays a huge part in belief.  Quite frankly, Im afraid of something like the tea party movement.  Not a single tax was raised last year yet they were crying about taxes.  No,  these guys just dont like a black dude runnng the country.  Plus, Sarah Palin factor.
Tu Stultus Es
13rin
Member
+977|5437

eleven bravo wrote:

Ill give you the spending bill and the budget.  But, can you truthfully say that if McCain had won the election or if Bush had served a 3rd term (in another universe where that would have been legal) that the bail outs wouldnt have happened?
I would have been pretty pissed about that had he gone bailout mode.

eleven bravo wrote:

about the tea guys, John, those are great ideals.  So is world peace, equal justice and puppies for everyone. Its not like these ideals are specific to the tea party movement.  What I have noticed though is that their momentum started last year around this time when the issue of health reform first came up.  before there was anything written, these idiots were screaming "Read the Bill!" which just tells me more about the mentality of that movement rather than their platform.  Also, what can not be stressed enough from my point of view is the fact that I believe (and there really isnt anything that could change that belief) that racism is a HUGE motivating factor in a person's commitment to that movement.  The fact that i am a person of color and the son of immigrants (legal, sad that i have to specify that, they were political refugees from the DR and Nicaragua) also plays a huge part in belief.  Quite frankly, Im afraid of something like the tea party movement.  Not a single tax was raised last year yet they were crying about taxes.  No,  these guys just dont like a black dude runnng the country.  Plus, Sarah Palin factor.
They were screaming "read the bill" in because of the aforementioned.  I honestly don't buy into the racism charge.  Do I think that racists attended the rally?  Probably, sure.  Do I think that the left media Olber types seized upon them and attempted to paint all the protesters with that brush?  Absolutley.  Great way to discredit an entire group.  Label them all bigots (kinda ironic statement there).  Taxes are going to be raised because of the bills he signed.  The Man ran on a platform built change.  He blamed the problems on Bush (the debt on which budgets he voted for) He's broken almost every campaign promise he's made.  And now, yes he is looking at raising taxes on the middle class.  Although from his track record of broken promises I saw that one coming.
I stood in line for four hours. They better give me a Wal-Mart gift card, or something.  - Rodney Booker, Job Fair attendee.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

eleven bravo wrote:

Ill give you the spending bill and the budget.  But, can you truthfully say that if McCain had won the election or if Bush had served a 3rd term (in another universe where that would have been legal) that the bail outs wouldnt have happened?


about the tea guys, John, those are great ideals.  So is world peace, equal justice and puppies for everyone. Its not like these ideals are specific to the tea party movement.  What I have noticed though is that their momentum started last year around this time when the issue of health reform first came up.  before there was anything written, these idiots were screaming "Read the Bill!" which just tells me more about the mentality of that movement rather than their platform.  Also, what can not be stressed enough from my point of view is the fact that I believe (and there really isnt anything that could change that belief) that racism is a HUGE motivating factor in a person's commitment to that movement.  The fact that i am a person of color and the son of immigrants (legal, sad that i have to specify that, they were political refugees from the DR and Nicaragua) also plays a huge part in belief.  Quite frankly, Im afraid of something like the tea party movement.  Not a single tax was raised last year yet they were crying about taxes.  No,  these guys just dont like a black dude runnng the country.  Plus, Sarah Palin factor.
So Mexicans are 'people of color' now? (j/k on the Mexican part)

You're right to a certain extent, there are a bunch of racist people in this country that became pissed off as soon as Obama was elected. There's no denying it. Problem is they've latched onto what was originally a Libertarian movement. They are by no means the majority of the 'tea partiers' but they are the majority of the story being portrayed on TV. It's the same for every movement. The core message is boring so the media goes out, finds some extremists and makes them the story. It's why this country is so very fucked up and has become increasingly 'wing nutty'. Those people out there on the extremes are the ones getting air time because everyone loves a conspiracy theory or everyone wants to validate their own beliefs by contrasting themselves against someone even nuttier than they are.

As far as 'read the bill', they had a valid point. I could not and would not sign my name to a document that I didn't read. I learned this when I raised my right hand That spending bill (and the health care bill too) was so long and convoluted and passed through with such quickness that there was no way in hell that anyone had a chance to read it through before signing it. I have a big issue with that.

Lastly, fiscal responsibility is not nearly the same thing as world peace or giving everyone a puppy. It's as simple as balancing a budget or a checkbook. The government did it for nearly two centuries. Then Reagan came along and they've all been retarded (on both sides of the aisle) ever since. Taxes will need to go up and the budget will have to be pared down in order to return this country to fiscal sensibility. Problem is that if they raise taxes they'll just spend even more, they won't cut the budget Morons the lot of them.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|5607

The Tea Partyers aren't doing themselves any favours when it comes to being taken seriously by inviting Palin to hang out with them.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

ghettoperson wrote:

The Tea Partyers aren't doing themselves any favours when it comes to being taken seriously by inviting Palin to hang out with them.
Not a Palin fan but it's no worse than liberals having out of the closet socialists in Pelosi and Obama being the face of their party
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
ghettoperson
Member
+1,943|5607

But it is worse. Not that I'm a fan of Pelosi, but she isn't a grade-A retard like Palin. Which is amusing, because people using 'retard' annoys Palin.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

ghettoperson wrote:

But it is worse. Not that I'm a fan of Pelosi, but she isn't a grade-A retard like Palin. Which is amusing, because people using 'retard' annoys Palin.
As I've said before, I don't like Palin. I voted for McCain last year but I literally sat in the voting booth for a good five minutes weighing whether I thought he would die in office and leave us with her in charge. It was the hardest vote I ever made... because of her.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire
Democracy doesn't work anymore. What we have now in most Western countries is the illusion of democracy.

The kind of change American politics (and Western politics in general) requires is simply not possible anymore, little old Ireland is no different. if you want to make a change you first have to get elected, if you can win over your constituents and get the requisite votes then bingo, you're in... but if you want to have any influence, or want the tantalising possibility of a cabinet position, then you have to get into bed with one of the major parties. Once you're in you have to respect the party structure and tow the party line, or face being made a political pariah... slowly, the fire in your belly is dampened as you deal with political reality. If you manage to rise to the heights of a cabinet position then you've probably had to promise a few favours to people on the way up, favours that will be called in at some stage... favours that may hamstring the 'change' you dreamed of implementing. Once you're in your cabinet position you soon realise that you have to keep the civil service, major players in the private sector, and/or lobby groups on side or risk their plotting against you... slowly you realise that not all the political ideologies you started out with are compatible with you surviving in the business of politics. You soften your stance. You make compromises. You rationalise and justify your actions to yourself. You start thinking about the 'greater good' and the 'bigger picture'... until one day you're just like all of the others. And all this happens while people in the opposition and in the media pore over your every move hoping and praying for you to slip up.

Government is not a place for ideological people anymore. Just look at George Lee, the so-called 'rising star' of Irish politics who quit his Government position this week because he wasn't part of the old boys' network of Irish politics.

Last edited by Braddock (2010-02-16 15:23:51)

Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England
Braddock, it's never been any different than it is today really. We in Western Society have a penchant for revering some ideal political past that never truly existed.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire

[email protected] wrote:

Braddock, it's never been any different than it is today really. We in Western Society have a penchant for revering some ideal political past that never truly existed.
Not since ancient Greece has it been true democracy... but it has been getting progressively worse in the last century. Nowadays you have small numbers of broad parties that don't reflect the actual political complexity of the social landscape, who ride to power on the back of campaign funding solicited from lobby groups and private sector interest groups, and who (once elected) completely ignore the opinions and desires of the masses whenever it suits them.

Mass media, instead of making things better, is seemingly making things worse. Instead of being up in arms about the reality we're now confronted with we are more concerned about how big our arses look in the mirror and who will win America's next top model. Now and again we might rant on a forum or on our respective blogs and labour under the illusion that our opinions actually mean something*.

*Yes, I did watch Charlie Brooker's Newswipe this evening!

Last edited by Braddock (2010-02-16 16:09:42)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire

Braddock wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Braddock, it's never been any different than it is today really. We in Western Society have a penchant for revering some ideal political past that never truly existed.
Not since ancient Greece has it been true democracy... but it has been getting progressively worse in the last century. Nowadays you have small numbers of broad parties that don't reflect the actual political complexity of the social landscape, who ride to power on the back of campaign funding solicited from lobby groups and private sector interest groups, and who (once elected) completely ignore the opinions and desires of the masses whenever it suits them.

Mass media, instead of making things better, is seemingly making things worse. Instead of being up in arms about the reality we're now confronted with we are more concerned about how big our arses look in the mirror and who will win America's next top model. Now and again we might rant on a forum or on our respective blogs and labour under the illusion that our opinions actually mean anything*.

*Yes, I did watch Charlie Brooker's Newswipe this evening!
And we invade other countries because they "deserve" this system of Government too apparently, it's pretty laughable really.
Jay
Bork! Bork! Bork!
+2,003|4316|London, England

Braddock wrote:

[email protected] wrote:

Braddock, it's never been any different than it is today really. We in Western Society have a penchant for revering some ideal political past that never truly existed.
Not since ancient Greece has it been true democracy... but it has been getting progressively worse in the last century. Nowadays you have small numbers of broad parties that don't reflect the actual political complexity of the social landscape, who ride to power on the back of campaign funding solicited from lobby groups and private sector interest groups, and who (once elected) completely ignore the opinions and desires of the masses whenever it suits them.

Mass media, instead of making things better, is seemingly making things worse. Instead of being up in arms about the reality we're now confronted with we are more concerned about how big our arses look in the mirror and who will win America's next top model. Now and again we might rant on a forum or on our respective blogs and labour under the illusion that our opinions actually mean something*.

*Yes, I did watch Charlie Brooker's Newswipe this evening!
Democracy is hardly the ideal system you seem to think it is. You think you have no voice now? Democracy is pure Tyranny of the Majority. Mob rule. The only difference between a Totalitarian system and Democracy is that you get a million little Hitlers instead of one big one. I'll pass. I prefer my Republic.
"Ah, you miserable creatures! You who think that you are so great! You who judge humanity to be so small! You who wish to reform everything! Why don't you reform yourselves? That task would be sufficient enough."
-Frederick Bastiat
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4217|foggy bottom
wow.  I just finished going over this in my midterm for Globalization class.  If my brain wasnt so racked Id contribute more. 

I now realize that terrorism isnt a byproduct of wealth disparity or the lack of access to a decent education.  Terrorism is rooted with culutural identity and globalization.  Introducing free markets to newly democratized nations creates ethnic tensions between the ethnic majority and the market dominant minority. 

Free markets first, democracy later.

Although the problem with spreading the idea of free markets and democracy to nations of the periphary is that we require them to implement laissez faire capitalism when the nations of the west dont even follow that model.
Tu Stultus Es
eleven bravo
Member
+1,399|4217|foggy bottom
Ancient Greek democracy wasnt even true democracy.  Citizens were counted but non citizens and slaves (majority) had no voice. Also, you could make the argument that direct democracy is what ruined Athens.
Tu Stultus Es

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