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Kmar
Truth is my Bitch
+5,695|5558|132 and Bush

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

That's the kind of disinterested attitude that lets the TSA get away with anything. "Well, they're keeping us safe, so they can do whatever they want to do".

The whole-body imagers are supposed to expedite the screening process and increase security, but do neither successfully. There are better, cheaper and more efficient methods, but the people who swallow the tripe that the TSA publicise are the people who are allowing the government to treat the flying public like Zeks being transported to Gulags, to borrow an apt phrase.

You're eroding the privacy and freedom of everyone through your unquestioning attitude towards an agency that has repeatedly proven itself to be untrustworthy.
No not anything. They aren't shoving their hands up your ass. Paranoia will eat you away. Get a grip son.
Paranoia? Paranoid about what, exactly?

"They aren't shoving their hands up your ass" is about as meaningful as saying "Don't complain about being punched in the face. At least you aren't being shot." You're arguing for people to settle for something that they shouldn't have to settle for by reasoning that at least they aren't settling for something else that they shouldn't have to settle for.

You may dismiss my objection through empty and baseless accusations of paranoia, but I'm just interested in being a member of a society that values privacy and openness, and doesn't demand that I subject myself to whole-body imaging just to go from one point to another within the country that I live in.

Kmarion wrote:

You think the TSA just wants to check your shit out for no reason? Don't flatter yourself.
What kind of fallacious argument is that? When did I even begin to suggest anything even resembling this? Take your tenuous connections elsewhere.
I'm arguing that they aren't "doing whatever they want". You missed that painfully simple point.

Paranoia that the the TSA is out to strip your freedoms away, without good intent.

I value my privacy as well as my safety. I will sacrifice CERTAIN things to protect my family and myself. That is not the same as "letting the TSA get away with anything". I'm not just assuming that they are acting in my best interest neither.
Xbone Stormsurgezz
mikkel
Member
+383|5559

Kmarion wrote:

mikkel wrote:

Kmarion wrote:

No not anything. They aren't shoving their hands up your ass. Paranoia will eat you away. Get a grip son.
Paranoia? Paranoid about what, exactly?

"They aren't shoving their hands up your ass" is about as meaningful as saying "Don't complain about being punched in the face. At least you aren't being shot." You're arguing for people to settle for something that they shouldn't have to settle for by reasoning that at least they aren't settling for something else that they shouldn't have to settle for.

You may dismiss my objection through empty and baseless accusations of paranoia, but I'm just interested in being a member of a society that values privacy and openness, and doesn't demand that I subject myself to whole-body imaging just to go from one point to another within the country that I live in.

Kmarion wrote:

You think the TSA just wants to check your shit out for no reason? Don't flatter yourself.
What kind of fallacious argument is that? When did I even begin to suggest anything even resembling this? Take your tenuous connections elsewhere.
I'm arguing that they aren't "doing whatever they want". You missed that painfully simple point.
By fabricating assertions and attributing them to me? That is a very unimpressive way of doing so. Of course the TSA are interested in doing whatever they want to do. The "painfully simple point" that you apparently missed is that the "if they say it makes me safe, it's okay" attitude lets them do whatever they want.

Kmarion wrote:

Paranoia that the the TSA is out to strip your freedoms away, without good intent.
I haven't made any assertions regarding "good intent", as intent isn't relevant in the least. The TSA have been through multiple documented cases of attempting to strip freedoms in absence of threat to transportation safety, and doing so by going well beyond their mandate. In addition, they're very frequently criticised for inefficiently executing this mandate. Putting any kind of blind trust in the TSA is thoroughly unwarranted, and dismissing this notion as paranoia either represents ignorance of the history of the TSA, or a misunderstanding of what paranoia is.

Last edited by mikkel (2010-02-13 16:42:20)

unnamednewbie13
Moderator
+1,896|5729|USA

[email protected] wrote:

The scanners were put in place specifically to nab muslim terrorists so... they can go fly a kite.
lol
Turquoise
O Canada
+1,596|5363|North Carolina

mikkel wrote:

Turquoise wrote:

mikkel wrote:


It's pretty well established that dogs are by far better than machines for the purpose of finding explosives. Few of the incidents that the WBIs have been pushed in response to would have been prevented had the scanners been in use, and none of them would have been prevented effectively.

The critics aren't short on ideas by any measure.
Ok, I'm all for using dogs if that's cheaper and more effective.

Isn't it true though that Muslims consider dogs "unclean"?  Wouldn't they be offended by having dogs sniff them and such?
I can't say that I care terribly much about how they handle the religious sensitivities of certain people. The CBP have had vegetable-sniffing dogs on patrol for years. I'm sure they'd be willing to share any insight they may have.
I don't care either, but I'm just saying you're going to get the same bullshit resistance from Muslims on this method as well.
Dilbert_X
The X stands for
+1,733|5064|eXtreme to the maX
Airport scanners piss everyone off, don't like them don't fly.

All religions need to be more tolerant of the constraints imposed by secular societies.
#FreeBritney
M.O.A.B
'Light 'em up!'
+1,220|5180|Escea

mafia996630 wrote:

Cybargs wrote:

What's wrong with hajji? Better than towel head or terrorist.

I'm sure after seeing through thousands of dicks airport security personnel won't give a fuck about how small your cock is yeh. Full body scanners are win. Unless you like gloves.
My mammoth of a dick is not the point, its personal privacy. Hey, you know what; we should also have full body scanners on trains and every other public means of transport. FUk that, let have it in every building since pretty much all of these features are open to attack.

And what the obsession with you and latex gloves ? never heard of a pat down ?
Slappin' on the lube and headin' up the tube.
Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire

rdx-fx wrote:

Braddock wrote:

No, they should not get a pass on the scanners. If they don't like the security measures they'll just have to make other travel arrangements.

However, racial and religious profiling for security purposes is bang out of order. The British subjected the Irish to internment and a policy of 'guilty until proven innocent' during the troubles and it's a fucking disgusting way for any supposedly civilised nation to behave. It's no different to a suicide bomber regarding all Westerners as 'infidels' who deserve to be attacked. Every individual is unique, you have to apply security measures to everyone evenly.
Internment and 'guilty until proven innocent' based only on ethnicity is a touch overboard.

A bit different than giving people some extra scrutiny at the airport based on their ethnicity.

Be polite, be professional, but be thorough.
The first 99,999 through the screening process are perfectly innocent and peaceful.
Hell, they very well may be fleeing the same jackass jihadis that are being screened for.
But, you must catch that 100,000th one through the screening process - he's the whole reason you wasted your time on the first 99,999.

Not even a matter of their skin tone, either.  More than a few western converts to radical Islam too.
Screening based on actually paying attention to the names on the magic watch lists, or last few stamps on their passport, or behavioral profiling, or, or...
So Timothy McVeigh would slip through your system with no problems?

It's quite simple, you have effective security measure that apply to everyone evenly... anyone can carry out a terror attack. Singling out people simply because of the way they dress, the colour of their skin, the way they spell their name, or because of their religion is ultimately ineffective. It reminds me of when I used to work security in the Irish high court, we used to screen bags with an x-ray machine and confiscate scissors and sharp objects but never turned on the walk-through metal detectors because the court staff found them annoying... so we were being extra thorough with all the bags but it was fucking pointless because absolutely anyone could carry a machete or a shotgun through the metal detectors.

Your racial profiling would be the equivalent of x-raying the bags while letting everyone else through the inactive metal detectors. You screen everyone and check everything or just don't bother.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|4195|Cleveland, Ohio
blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-02-15 06:59:36)

ruisleipa
Member
+149|5180|teh FIN-land

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
and there we have 11 bravo's rational informed opinion. oh sorry I meant irrational and uninformed opinion, or should I say lowing-esque racist prejudices.

my bad.
13/f/taiwan
Member
+940|4656
I'm surprised you guys are still obsessed with the subject of Muslims in this forum.
mafia996630
© 2009 Jeff Minard
+319|5721|d

13/f/taiwan wrote:

I'm surprised you guys are still obsessed with the subject of Muslims in this forum.
Muslims ? never!
Varegg
Support fanatic :-)
+2,206|5768|Nårvei

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
So give them nukes and be done with it ...
Wait behind the line ..............................................................
cpt.fass1
The Cap'n Can Make it Hap'n
+329|5654|NJ
They need to hang a "Can refuse Service" Sign on Airports now a days.

Problem with racial profiling is it doesn't work, you keep the eye on one group and then someone else will slip through.

Seriously it's a business not a democracy. If the Airlines want to put things in place that they feel will protect there couple million dollar airplane then let me.
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|4195|Cleveland, Ohio

ruisleipa wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
and there we have 11 bravo's rational informed opinion. oh sorry I meant irrational and uninformed opinion, or should I say lowing-esque racist prejudices.

my bad.
erm... from 1980 going forward most notable aircraft hijackings were....... oh nvm.  look up your own shit.

Last edited by 11 Bravo (2010-02-15 09:12:22)

11 Bravo
Banned
+965|4195|Cleveland, Ohio

cpt.fass1 wrote:

They need to hang a "Can refuse Service" Sign on Airports now a days.

Problem with racial profiling is it doesn't work, you keep the eye on one group and then someone else will slip through.

Seriously it's a business not a democracy. If the Airlines want to put things in place that they feel will protect there couple million dollar airplane then let me.
couple million?  and dont forget all the wrongful death lawsuits if something happens.  seems like the lot of you dont know much about aviation but act like you do.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5674

11 Bravo wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
and there we have 11 bravo's rational informed opinion. oh sorry I meant irrational and uninformed opinion, or should I say lowing-esque racist prejudices.

my bad.
erm... from 1980 going forward most notable aircraft hijackings were....... oh nvm.  look up your own shit.
But but it's all the white man's fault for supporting the Jews! If those fucking Euros and Americans will let the Arabs kill all the jews than everything will be dandy.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|4195|Cleveland, Ohio

Cybargs wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:


and there we have 11 bravo's rational informed opinion. oh sorry I meant irrational and uninformed opinion, or should I say lowing-esque racist prejudices.

my bad.
erm... from 1980 going forward most notable aircraft hijackings were....... oh nvm.  look up your own shit.
But but it's all the white man's fault for supporting the Jews! If those fucking Euros and Americans will let the Arabs kill all the jews than everything will be dandy.
ya.....its always the man.
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|5536|Columbus, OH

Cybargs wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

and there we have 11 bravo's rational informed opinion. oh sorry I meant irrational and uninformed opinion, or should I say lowing-esque racist prejudices.

my bad.
erm... from 1980 going forward most notable aircraft hijackings were....... oh nvm.  look up your own shit.
But but it's all the white man's fault for supporting the Jews! If those fucking Euros and Americans will let the Arabs kill all the jews than everything will be dandy.
If the marauding vikings did not go techno on us, europe would been completely different.

OP: special treatment just because of their religion - hell no.

Last edited by loubot (2010-02-15 09:28:36)

Braddock
Agitator
+916|5248|Éire

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
How many Arabs and Muslims have carried out hijackings? How many Arabs and Muslims are there in the world? Now take those two figures and work out the percentage of Arabs and Muslims who "love doing hijackings and such"... you have such a stupid way of thinking it defies logic. It's the equivalent of hating all Americans because of the actions of George Bush.

Anyone can hijack a plane... anyone. As long as it's fashionable to attack planes you simply have to implement stringent security measures against everyone who gets on a plane. Singling out people by race and religion only serves to polarize society with little net benefit in terms of security.
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,268|5674

Braddock wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
How many Arabs and Muslims have carried out hijackings? How many Arabs and Muslims are there in the world? Now take those two figures and work out the percentage of Arabs and Muslims who "love doing hijackings and such"... you have such a stupid way of thinking it defies logic. It's the equivalent of hating all Americans because of the actions of George Bush.

Anyone can hijack a plane... anyone. As long as it's fashionable to attack planes you simply have to implement stringent security measures against everyone who gets on a plane. Singling out people by race and religion only serves to polarize society with little net benefit in terms of security.
Yeah well the body scanners remove the whole racist bit about random search yeh. Now they can look through everyone lel.
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|4195|Cleveland, Ohio

Braddock wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
How many Arabs and Muslims have carried out hijackings? How many Arabs and Muslims are there in the world? Now take those two figures and work out the percentage of Arabs and Muslims who "love doing hijackings and such"... you have such a stupid way of thinking it defies logic. It's the equivalent of hating all Americans because of the actions of George Bush.

Anyone can hijack a plane... anyone. As long as it's fashionable to attack planes you simply have to implement stringent security measures against everyone who gets on a plane. Singling out people by race and religion only serves to polarize society with little net benefit in terms of security.
you take things way too far.  that does not equal that at all.  simple fact is go look at notable aircraft hijackings from 1980 on.  i dont make this shit up.  it is what it is.  to deny it is to bury your head in the sand.
androoz
Banned
+137|4171|United States

11 Bravo wrote:

Braddock wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
How many Arabs and Muslims have carried out hijackings? How many Arabs and Muslims are there in the world? Now take those two figures and work out the percentage of Arabs and Muslims who "love doing hijackings and such"... you have such a stupid way of thinking it defies logic. It's the equivalent of hating all Americans because of the actions of George Bush.

Anyone can hijack a plane... anyone. As long as it's fashionable to attack planes you simply have to implement stringent security measures against everyone who gets on a plane. Singling out people by race and religion only serves to polarize society with little net benefit in terms of security.
you take things way too far.  that does not equal that at all.  simple fact is go look at notable aircraft hijackings from 1980 on.  i dont make this shit up.  it is what it is.  to deny it is to bury your head in the sand.
you are on racist person...
11 Bravo
Banned
+965|4195|Cleveland, Ohio
k.  back to EE droozorz you retard.
androoz
Banned
+137|4171|United States

11 Bravo wrote:

k.  back to EE droozorz you retard.
hmm youre just a clueless, racist retard. ignorant...

yeah, all muslims are evil and they all want death to nonbelievers. youre the retard.
loubot
O' HAL naw!
+470|5536|Columbus, OH

11 Bravo wrote:

Braddock wrote:

11 Bravo wrote:

blah blah brad.  its well known arabs and muslims love doing hijackings and such.  have you been asleep since the 70's?
How many Arabs and Muslims have carried out hijackings? How many Arabs and Muslims are there in the world? Now take those two figures and work out the percentage of Arabs and Muslims who "love doing hijackings and such"... you have such a stupid way of thinking it defies logic. It's the equivalent of hating all Americans because of the actions of George Bush.

Anyone can hijack a plane... anyone. As long as it's fashionable to attack planes you simply have to implement stringent security measures against everyone who gets on a plane. Singling out people by race and religion only serves to polarize society with little net benefit in terms of security.
you take things way too far.  that does not equal that at all.  simple fact is go look at notable aircraft hijackings from 1980 on.  i dont make this shit up.  it is what it is.  to deny it is to bury your head in the sand.
Agree with your last statement. The 80's was filled with airplace hijackings. Some say the news coverage perpetuated the hijackings because of the mass exposure of the hijacker's ideals or demands.

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