BF2S Forums 'Justice Denied' in Shoot-Down of Innocent Americans

Dilbert_X wrote:

The problem is with the ROE violation and the coverup that followed, not the program itself.

I'd say the CIA being involved in a program to summarily execute suspected criminals on foreign soil is the bigger issue here.
That the only reason we know about it is because they fucked up and killed some innocent Americans is poor.

If that's the only reason you know about it, then you weren't paying attention.

Nice use of hyperbolic language though..."summarily execute suspected criminals of foreign soil".

Do you think the SAS and MI-6 don't participate in similar programs elsewhere? And other SOF/intel organizations of other countries?

Dilbert_X wrote:

Pretty sure MI6 don't kill people because they think they might be criminals and they could therefore possibly be funding terrorism directed at a country unconnected with the UK.
I like to think they'd have a bit more than that before killing anyone.

Neither did the CIA, brainiac. They provided intel to the Peruvian AF. Much like MI-6 or the SAS would provide intel to another country's armed forces for foreign internal defense purposes. Happens all over the world, every day.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

Neither did the CIA, brainiac. They provided intel to the Peruvian AF. Much like MI-6 or the SAS would provide intel to another country's armed forces for foreign internal defense purposes. Happens all over the world, every day.

Oh come on, they were there calling up the fighters, thats hardly providing 'intel' - shitty and wrong intel that it was.

Oh come on. Now you're just exposing your ignorance. They provided an intel tipper. The Peruvian AF scrambled the fighters based on the tipper. The CIA doesn't have the authority to "call up" another country's military assets. The ABC reporter used the wrong terminology in their report because they didn't know what they were talking about, either.

It wasn't "shitty and wrong intel". It was intel that there was an unidentified plane without a corroborated flight plan flying from Brazil into Peru along a known drug smuggling route. That was valid. That was enough to scramble the jets. The failure was in not getting the tail number, which would have presumably led them to find the flight plan that was filed with Iquitos and gotten them to switch freqs so comms could've been established.

Dilbert_X wrote:

Following a plane, calling up jets and continuing to follow said plane while its being shot down is a smidgen more involvement than a 'tipper'.

Finding the plane and following it is part if the intel collection process.

They didn't "call up the jets". That's the point I'm trying to make here. Terminology is important, as it implies authorities and roles and responsibilities that aren't/weren't there.

They provided an intel tipper, based on what they collected, to the Peruvian AF. The Peruvian AF "called up jets".

Meanwhile, the intel plane continued to follow so that the target aircraft wasn't lost, as the Peruvian AF jets don't have radar. Again, the intel plane fucked up by not following the ID ROE, which they clearly had misgivings about prior to engagement--but engagement was the Peruvian AF's call, not the CIA's or the US's.

I never said their involvement was limited to a "tipper". I said they didn't "call up" the Peruvian AF planes--they provided an intel tipper for the Peruvian AF to act on (that action being to scramble their aircraft). The "tipper" discussion was WRT the "call up" language, nothing more. Don't try to extend it beyond that.

Dilbert_X wrote:

They provided an intel tipper, based on what they collected, to the Peruvian AF. The Peruvian AF "called up jets".

They were involved in an ongoing operation to interdict aircraft, they knew the exact chain of events which would follow their 'tipper', and stuck around to watch.

Clue bird, could you please land on Dilbert's shoulder?

Thanks.

They "stuck around" to ensure the plane wasn't lost. They tracked it, as there isn't radar coverage there. Why do you think they were there to begin with? It's not because there's great air traffic control in the Amazon basin. If the plane were to go down, they had to ensure they knew where it went down so that recovery teams could get to the site. The A-37 isn't exactly the hallmark of modern aircraft with gee-whiz navaids...hence why the PAF had to have help to begin with.

Dilbert_X wrote:

FEOS wrote:

They "stuck around" to ensure the plane wasn't lost.

Thats nice of them.

It was their mission.

Dilbert_X wrote:

They tracked it, as there isn't radar coverage there. Why do you think they were there to begin with?

To interdict suspected drug flights? Or was there some other reason the CIA was in Peru?

The former.