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2006-04-20 23:43:47
sixshot
Decepticon Geek
+50|7058|Planet Seibertron ;)

Janus67 wrote:

... I wouldn't be so sure about the Conroe.  I want to see head-to-head benchmarks first before we come to any conclusions.
There's a documented benchmark scores on the Conroe pitted against AMD's FX-60.  While not exhaustive and 100% thorough, the information gathered seem to indicate that the Conroe processor is indeed faster than anything AMD can put together at that time.

I'm willing to speculate that Conroe will thoroughly run past AMD's X2 offerings come launch time.  Given the current run of AMD's DDR2 controller, the performance benefits is very minimal, almost negligible.  The downside I see to this is AMD will be pushed back to 2nd place and will remain there until they figure out a way to match or surpass Intel's MA designs.  The numbers are there... and while only a glimpse into the future and not on retail/final models, I doubt things will change much by then.
2006-04-21 00:09:50
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7134|good old CA
ahhh another great post six, also what about amd's idea of anti hyper threading?  dont like the idea that its single threaded though.
2006-04-21 06:13:00
Janus67
Tech God
+86|6978|Ohio, USA

Maj.Do wrote:

ahhh another great post six, also what about amd's idea of anti hyper threading?  dont like the idea that its single threaded though.
i read about that, I think that if they can figure it out, it will give huge performance boosts.  Although the logic of it doesn't make very much sense, although I am not a computer engineer anymore.  The closest thing I can compare to would be a raid 0 config.

and as for the conroe vs fx60 results, I would hope that they would beat that out.  the 60 is the last in the fx line for s939, so we will just have to see what amazing tech am2 comes out with (not just a useability of ddr2 I hope).  can you tell I love AMD?
2006-04-21 06:25:23
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7099
the fx60 was OCed to what was supposed to be fx62 speeds...
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2006-04-21 08:07:28
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY
AM2 just adds DDR2 support and better temps to really the same archtecture of the old S939. All the chips in the AM2 are still 90nm process and still uses the now going to be outdated AMD Athlon Archtecture. It is time AMD goes for 40nm, not 65nm if they want the lead again.
2006-04-21 08:07:54
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7134|good old CA

Janus67 wrote:

Maj.Do wrote:

ahhh another great post six, also what about amd's idea of anti hyper threading?  dont like the idea that its single threaded though.
i read about that, I think that if they can figure it out, it will give huge performance boosts.  Although the logic of it doesn't make very much sense, although I am not a computer engineer anymore.  The closest thing I can compare to would be a raid 0 config.

and as for the conroe vs fx60 results, I would hope that they would beat that out.  the 60 is the last in the fx line for s939, so we will just have to see what amazing tech am2 comes out with (not just a useability of ddr2 I hope).  can you tell I love AMD?
I thought AM2 is the same as the 939 socket
2006-04-21 08:10:48
Cybargs
Moderated
+2,285|7099

Maj.Do wrote:

Janus67 wrote:

Maj.Do wrote:

ahhh another great post six, also what about amd's idea of anti hyper threading?  dont like the idea that its single threaded though.
i read about that, I think that if they can figure it out, it will give huge performance boosts.  Although the logic of it doesn't make very much sense, although I am not a computer engineer anymore.  The closest thing I can compare to would be a raid 0 config.

and as for the conroe vs fx60 results, I would hope that they would beat that out.  the 60 is the last in the fx line for s939, so we will just have to see what amazing tech am2 comes out with (not just a useability of ddr2 I hope).  can you tell I love AMD?
I thought AM2 is the same as the 939 socket
pretty much, but its using a differnt socket (940, but not opeterons ones to avoid the confusion) its just there for ddr2, not a completely new core
https://cache.www.gametracker.com/server_info/203.46.105.23:21300/b_350_20_692108_381007_FFFFFF_000000.png
2006-04-21 08:15:58
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY

cyborg_ninja-117 wrote:

Maj.Do wrote:

Janus67 wrote:


i read about that, I think that if they can figure it out, it will give huge performance boosts.  Although the logic of it doesn't make very much sense, although I am not a computer engineer anymore.  The closest thing I can compare to would be a raid 0 config.

and as for the conroe vs fx60 results, I would hope that they would beat that out.  the 60 is the last in the fx line for s939, so we will just have to see what amazing tech am2 comes out with (not just a useability of ddr2 I hope).  can you tell I love AMD?
I thought AM2 is the same as the 939 socket
pretty much, but its using a differnt socket (940, but not opeterons ones to avoid the confusion) its just there for ddr2, not a completely new core
Ya just a new core so the processors could get cooler and a new temperature fan configuration and DDR2 support. Intel is coming out with a whole new core and mobo archtecture under a new process.
2006-04-21 11:17:50
vjs
Member
+19|7154
Yup the problem is not that AM2 is so bad it's that 939 was a fantastic socket doing really really well with ddr. They really did a great job with the memory intergration. Unfortunately AM2 uses DDR2 with 940-pin (Well that's really the only change) for AM2 thus far. DDR2 doesn't have very good timings although newer modules are being released.

The good news!!! Nvidia 550 I think this may be the bomb for AMD and what they need. Personally I'd have no problem purchasing a 939 currently. The difference between the best 939 of today and the best INtel or AM2 by the end of the year won't be that great.
2006-04-21 11:41:18
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY
I think if Intel pulls off Conroe, I would be switching back to Intel around the next two to three years. I think Intel mobile processors are good. If they pull of desktop Conroe, they take my heart to them.
2006-04-21 11:46:55
E7IX3R
is drunk and crazy
+216|7071|UK
For £650 a built a computer myself - no monitor needed (i have a 15 inch LCD )

AMD64 3500+
1024mb Corsair Ram
£160 Sata2 HDD
GF 6800GS (which runs bf2 on max settings with x4 AA)
500w PSU (Very important)

various other stuff such as the case, dvd drive, cold cathode green light ect.

Also added Logitech G5 Mouse and G15 Keyboard.
2006-04-21 14:10:37
sixshot
Decepticon Geek
+50|7058|Planet Seibertron ;)

Maj.Do wrote:

ahhh another great post six, also what about amd's idea of anti hyper threading?  dont like the idea that its single threaded though.
I haven't heard anything about their anti-HyperThreading plans.  But I can never imagine staying with single-threaded processing.  I personally believe that multi-core is a better future of which it overcomes the limitations that HT have.
2006-04-21 14:13:34
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY
Hopefully they would understand that HT could boost their performance in their processors even more with their current architecture. I hope they will utilize some kind of HT Technology in their very later upcoming 65nm Die Process Processors.
2006-04-21 14:29:24
washow
Get out of MY JET!!!
+23|7095
ok difference in conroe and am2 is that conroe is using 65nm processor and am2 is using 90nm like s939
but early next year(i think), AMD's going to release a new 65nm processor

so for now, conroe ftw

is this okay for using paragraph janus?
i swear nobody ever gave me shtis for using spaces..
always thought that was kinda easier to read but oh well
2006-04-21 14:35:11
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY

washow wrote:

ok difference in conroe and am2 is that conroe is using 65nm processor and am2 is using 90nm like s939
but early next year(i think), AMD's going to release a new 65nm processor

so for now, conroe ftw

is this okay for using paragraph janus?
i swear nobody ever gave me shtis for using spaces..
always thought that was kinda easier to read but oh well
Even if it is going to be 65nm, will AMD still catch up with the new and greatly improved architecture of conroe?
2006-04-21 16:57:09
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7134|good old CA
i think intel can be the crown champion,  since now they are improving on there designs they also have a HUGH R and D team.
2006-04-21 18:38:29
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY

Maj.Do wrote:

i think intel can be the crown champion,  since now they are improving on there designs they also have a HUGH R and D team.
I have a lot of hope with Intel with Conroe, AMD would have a tough time to get back on track, even if Fab 36 does create AMD's first 65nm die process in Q1 of 2007 w/ AM2 Socket. All they need to succeed again is either go to 40nm or add some kind of HyperThreading system to their cores or even add more L2 Cache and they are good to go.
2006-04-21 22:24:35
sixshot
Decepticon Geek
+50|7058|Planet Seibertron ;)

washow wrote:

ok difference in conroe and am2 is that conroe is using 65nm processor and am2 is using 90nm like s939
but early next year(i think), AMD's going to release a new 65nm processor
This is a misconception with regards to the die-shrinking process.  The 65nm fabrication process only means that the processor die will become smaller, run cooler, and possibly be capable of higher clock speed.  In no way does having a 65nm-based processor be able to make the performance difference.  Do note that AMD did not go forth immediately with the 90nm process but instead retained the 130nm process for the time being.  Whereas Intel added features along with using the 90nm process in order to design/create the Prescott core.  We all know what happened there.

The 65nm process for AMD only means that they will be able to possibly make their processor clock higher.  But the problem is you cannot outperform a processor like Conroe just by brute-forcing your way through clock speed.  It's just does not fit in well in AMD's current processor designs (the K8).  This is why I speculated that there's no way AMD will be able to catch up due to Conroe's ability to outperform AMD's highest offerings.  It just doesn't seem likely that AMD can use clock speed to overcome a processor like Conroe without scrapping the entire K8 design and do the exact same thing Intel did: Start from scratch.

It is through starting from scratch that you can lay a better foundation that can both expand to provide additional features as well scale to improve in performance and functionality.  It's ironic as well.  Two major giants -- Intel and Microsoft -- designed their next generation product from the ground up in order to provide a better foundation that will become a solid product to last for a long time.  I can honestly say that AMD needs to do the same if they wish to catch up with Intel.

Maj.Do wrote:

i think intel can be the crown champion,  since now they are improving on there designs they also have a HUGH R and D team.
Unless I am mistaken, once the design is finalized, there are no changes unless it is to fix a functionality problem.  I could've sworn in some past document somewhere that Intel hardly makes any changes that affects performances.  They'll make changes to fix outstanding "problems" that occur on the processor.  But I have yet to see Intel make changes now that directly affects the performance of the processor.
2006-04-21 22:44:06
nelson496
Member
+3|7168
wow, nice to have that much money but I have cable internet.
2006-04-22 13:01:32
jnick
Member
+22|7165
I see there's a lot of confusion about this whole AM2 deal.

First of all, AM2 is the same architecture (K8) and socket 939, however it adds a new memory controller and DDR2 support. AM2 is NOT Socket 940. AM2 has a pin count of 940 but it's Socket name is AM2 . . . not 940.

Upon release, Conroe will be top dog. However, AM2's processors will feature a die-shrink before the end of the year, moving to 65nm. This may possibly allow AM2 to at least come close to conroe as this shrink will allow the chips to receive a greater clock speed.

Other than that, AM2 is scheduled for a May/June release, where as Conroe is headed for July/August, therefore, you are talking about waiting a nice long while until you can even get Conroe.

Oh, and one last thing, with Conroe, forget about running SLi, as officially - it's not going to happen.

Last edited by jnick (2006-04-22 13:04:43)

2006-04-22 13:17:05
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY

jnick wrote:

I see there's a lot of confusion about this whole AM2 deal.

First of all, AM2 is the same architecture (K8) and socket 939, however it adds a new memory controller and DDR2 support. AM2 is NOT Socket 940. AM2 has a pin count of 940 but it's Socket name is AM2 . . . not 940.

Upon release, Conroe will be top dog. However, AM2's processors will feature a die-shrink before the end of the year, moving to 65nm. This may possibly allow AM2 to at least come close to conroe as this shrink will allow the chips to receive a greater clock speed.

Other than that, AM2 is scheduled for a May/June release, where as Conroe is headed for July/August, therefore, you are talking about waiting a nice long while until you can even get Conroe.

Oh, and one last thing, with Conroe, forget about running SLi, as officially - it's not going to happen.
SLI still exists w/ Conroe. THe OEM mobo makers current SLI 965 Intel Express Chipsets supports Conroe and also would integrate SLI on the upcoming 975X Express Chipset. SLI is just not promoted w/ the mainstream Conroe, just with the Extreme Editions. Still, SLI can be supported w/ Conroe and most rig makers would go to 3rd Party OEMs for the SLI mobos that work w/ Conroe.

Also, Clock could shorten the barrier between the AMD K8 Archtecture and the Conroe archtecture but in the long run, AMD's best bet is to scrap K8 and go for a new archtecture FTW against Conroe.

Last edited by BlackLegion42 (2006-04-22 13:18:22)

2006-04-22 13:28:11
dstock9
Member
+13|6987

Maj.Do wrote:

well the am2 looks like its gonna suck though : \ its a 939 with ddr2 support
We must read the same reviews... I'm just saving like mad for whatever is After am2.
2006-04-22 15:56:08
jnick
Member
+22|7165

BlackLegion42 wrote:

jnick wrote:

I see there's a lot of confusion about this whole AM2 deal.

First of all, AM2 is the same architecture (K8) and socket 939, however it adds a new memory controller and DDR2 support. AM2 is NOT Socket 940. AM2 has a pin count of 940 but it's Socket name is AM2 . . . not 940.

Upon release, Conroe will be top dog. However, AM2's processors will feature a die-shrink before the end of the year, moving to 65nm. This may possibly allow AM2 to at least come close to conroe as this shrink will allow the chips to receive a greater clock speed.

Other than that, AM2 is scheduled for a May/June release, where as Conroe is headed for July/August, therefore, you are talking about waiting a nice long while until you can even get Conroe.

Oh, and one last thing, with Conroe, forget about running SLi, as officially - it's not going to happen.
SLI still exists w/ Conroe. THe OEM mobo makers current SLI 965 Intel Express Chipsets supports Conroe and also would integrate SLI on the upcoming 975X Express Chipset. SLI is just not promoted w/ the mainstream Conroe, just with the Extreme Editions. Still, SLI can be supported w/ Conroe and most rig makers would go to 3rd Party OEMs for the SLI mobos that work w/ Conroe.

Also, Clock could shorten the barrier between the AMD K8 Archtecture and the Conroe archtecture but in the long run, AMD's best bet is to scrap K8 and go for a new archtecture FTW against Conroe.
Umm . . .

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho … hp?t=96756

nVidia won't allow Intel chipsets to use SLi. nVidia is also not going to support Conroe on their chipset.

Therefore Conroe = No SLi

Last edited by jnick (2006-04-22 16:02:14)

2006-04-22 16:54:38
BlackLegion42
Damn Command and Conquer Generals...
+62|7113|Rochester, NY

jnick wrote:

BlackLegion42 wrote:

jnick wrote:

I see there's a lot of confusion about this whole AM2 deal.

First of all, AM2 is the same architecture (K8) and socket 939, however it adds a new memory controller and DDR2 support. AM2 is NOT Socket 940. AM2 has a pin count of 940 but it's Socket name is AM2 . . . not 940.

Upon release, Conroe will be top dog. However, AM2's processors will feature a die-shrink before the end of the year, moving to 65nm. This may possibly allow AM2 to at least come close to conroe as this shrink will allow the chips to receive a greater clock speed.

Other than that, AM2 is scheduled for a May/June release, where as Conroe is headed for July/August, therefore, you are talking about waiting a nice long while until you can even get Conroe.

Oh, and one last thing, with Conroe, forget about running SLi, as officially - it's not going to happen.
SLI still exists w/ Conroe. THe OEM mobo makers current SLI 965 Intel Express Chipsets supports Conroe and also would integrate SLI on the upcoming 975X Express Chipset. SLI is just not promoted w/ the mainstream Conroe, just with the Extreme Editions. Still, SLI can be supported w/ Conroe and most rig makers would go to 3rd Party OEMs for the SLI mobos that work w/ Conroe.

Also, Clock could shorten the barrier between the AMD K8 Archtecture and the Conroe archtecture but in the long run, AMD's best bet is to scrap K8 and go for a new archtecture FTW against Conroe.
Umm . . .

http://www.xtremesystems.org/forums/sho … hp?t=96756

nVidia won't allow Intel chipsets to use SLi. nVidia is also not going to support Conroe on their chipset.

Therefore Conroe = No SLi
That is not true... Current ASUS 965 SLI boards would support Conroe chipsets. Even current systems with Preslers can be upgraded to Conroe in the future. Also that is just on a forum, until you give me a article or some other legit source that nVidia said is true, then I am going to buy it. One forum source isn't going cover it and also most current SLI Intel chipset boards can support upcoming Conroe because they support Presler 9xx Pentium D's and Intel stated officially that these mobos can support upcoming Conroe.
2006-04-22 17:20:41
Maj.Do
Member
+85|7134|good old CA

sixshot wrote:

washow wrote:

ok difference in conroe and am2 is that conroe is using 65nm processor and am2 is using 90nm like s939
but early next year(i think), AMD's going to release a new 65nm processor
This is a misconception with regards to the die-shrinking process.  The 65nm fabrication process only means that the processor die will become smaller, run cooler, and possibly be capable of higher clock speed.  In no way does having a 65nm-based processor be able to make the performance difference.  Do note that AMD did not go forth immediately with the 90nm process but instead retained the 130nm process for the time being.  Whereas Intel added features along with using the 90nm process in order to design/create the Prescott core.  We all know what happened there.

The 65nm process for AMD only means that they will be able to possibly make their processor clock higher.  But the problem is you cannot outperform a processor like Conroe just by brute-forcing your way through clock speed.  It's just does not fit in well in AMD's current processor designs (the K8).  This is why I speculated that there's no way AMD will be able to catch up due to Conroe's ability to outperform AMD's highest offerings.  It just doesn't seem likely that AMD can use clock speed to overcome a processor like Conroe without scrapping the entire K8 design and do the exact same thing Intel did: Start from scratch.

It is through starting from scratch that you can lay a better foundation that can both expand to provide additional features as well scale to improve in performance and functionality.  It's ironic as well.  Two major giants -- Intel and Microsoft -- designed their next generation product from the ground up in order to provide a better foundation that will become a solid product to last for a long time.  I can honestly say that AMD needs to do the same if they wish to catch up with Intel.

Maj.Do wrote:

i think intel can be the crown champion,  since now they are improving on there designs they also have a HUGH R and D team.
Unless I am mistaken, once the design is finalized, there are no changes unless it is to fix a functionality problem.  I could've sworn in some past document somewhere that Intel hardly makes any changes that affects performances.  They'll make changes to fix outstanding "problems" that occur on the processor.  But I have yet to see Intel make changes now that directly affects the performance of the processor.
i mean like they will design another design for the future cpus easily, and great post!

 

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