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2005-10-16 18:50:44
Heffty
Member
+9|7033|Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I bought a computer in June 2004 that was put together for me. Here's what came with it:
AMD XP 3200+ Processor
Biostar M7NCD Motherboard
CDRW and DVD Drive
Radeon 9200SE
2*256MB RAM
Maxtor 80G Hard Drive @7200RPM.

Since then I upgraded and got these:
Turtle Beach Santa Cruz Sound Card
Another 80G Hard drive identical to the first.
ATI X800XL
2*1G RAM Sticks


This is the first computer I've ever owned and I really enjoy learning more about it. When I bought the second hard drive I started reading up on RAIDing. I then found out my motherboard doesn't support RAID. To be honest, I think the motherboard is kind of weak and I wish it had more to offer. I would like to know what you folks think is the best motherboard for the processor I have.

Secondly, if I were to go out and spend the money on this motherboard (if you have any ideas on good prices let me know), would the RAIDing make that much of a difference for my gameplay or loading times in BF2? I know that many people have the same problems as me with the 'verifying client data' and CRT so I thought maybe this RAIDing would speed that process up a little or fix some things. I also thought a new motherboard would have a better chipset and could us my processor to it's fullest and may work better for the game. Or maybe it would mean games in the future would play better too. Obviously I don't know much about what I'm talking about, I've only listened to what my computer friends have to say about my system. So I figured I'd inquire here and find out what all you BF2 folk think seeing as how many of you are similar to me in experiencing problems with BF2.

Here's a link you can find my current motherboards manual on if you're interested in helping me with my research.
http://www.biostar.com.tw/support/manua … 3?socket=a

Also, if you think there may be any other advantages to your motherboard of choice that I would not be aware of (IE somthing like RAID that I didn't know was important until it was too late) then let me know that too. Thanks.
2005-10-16 19:00:18
IronGeek
One Shot, One Kill
+4|7059|Canberra, Australia
You could always buy a raid controller for the board.  Not every thing has to be built into the board.  If you have lots of money.. . Throw money at the problem to make it go away..
2005-10-16 19:16:49
Heffty
Member
+9|7033|Calgary, Alberta, Canada
I'd spend just as much if not more on a decent RAID controller as I would on the new motherboard and then I wouldn't have a better chipset than what is supposedly on my current motherboard. And no...I don't have a ton of money...I am actually $80,000 in debt (student loans for my wife and I) and just figured if I'm going to spend the next 3 years at home paying off debts and not going out I better have something to do with my time so I bought myself a little something to get me through the boredom of not being able to go out. That's why I've been getting into computers more...I am at home and have little better to do than search around on forums/computer sites and see what there is out there.

At the same time...I am not poor and wouldn't claim to be. Anyone with a computer that can play BF2 is probably in the top 3% of the worlds wealthiest people. As far as this motherboard goes...I'm just researching at this point. I haven't committed to buying anything yet and if it's not worth it then I won't do it. That's why I'm reasearching and asking around.
2005-10-16 20:04:50
Dnamaster
Member
+0|7076|Canada
you can pick up a RAID controler for $30 or so off e-bay, if your harddrives are IDE it wiill be head to find a mobo wiht IDE RAID built in, mine does i have a gigabyte ga7v-axp and its a great board. but if i were you i woudlent upgrad ur board, you still have a socket A chip, witch will soon be outdated, and there isnt much a new board will help you with. like i said pick up a RAID controler off e-bay.
2005-10-17 01:37:16
AnarkyXtra
BF2s EU Server Admin
+67|7052|Hanging onto the UAV
Don't bother with RAID. The real-world (e.g. noticeable) performance improvements aren't good enough enough to warrant the amount of cash you'll be spending. It's a contended opinion, but I think load times in BF2 seem to be directly related to the amount of RAM you have installed...I don't know anyone on these boards with 1gb or more RAM who has slow loading times.

Get a better GFX card or a nice 19" TFT or something.
2005-10-17 05:03:34
Leatherface-TCM
The Saw is Family
+0|7086

AnarkyXtra wrote:

Don't bother with RAID. The real-world (e.g. noticeable) performance improvements aren't good enough enough to warrant the amount of cash you'll be spending. It's a contended opinion, but I think load times in BF2 seem to be directly related to the amount of RAM you have installed...I don't know anyone on these boards with 1gb or more RAM who has slow loading times.

Get a better GFX card or a nice 19" TFT or something.
This is good and accurate advice.
RAID can speed up some business apps but for gaming it will do you very little to no good (this is coming from the guy that has a 0+1 strip on 4 SATA 80 Gig drives!)
Buy a better motherboard for other features you need/want - don't worry about the RAID - as stated above you can always buy a RAID card after if you really want it and as far a price - you get what you pay for.  Having a separate card vs. built in means you can always upgrade it, replace it if it fucks up, get a better quality of card, etc
2005-10-17 06:00:16
The Soup Nazi
Member
+18|7052|North Lauderdale, FL
if you're looking for a quick fix for better performance, i'd sooner opt for a new motherboard with a 64 bit processor.  match that with a better graphics card and you'll be good to go for a little while.

if you want to stick with the same machine for the next few years and still be able to play up-to-date games, your best bet would be a setup like this:
nForce 4 SLI motherboard
AMD 64 X2 processor
nVidia 7800 GTX (you can always buy a second one later for SLI mode)
2GB PC3200 DDR RAM
73GB SATA Western Digital Raptor (for your system apps)
300+GB SATA Hard Drive (for storage stuff like photos, mp3s, etc)

you could put a system like this together for less than 1500 easily.  my advice to you is to check newegg.com.  they seem to have the best prices and support for self-built computers.
2005-10-17 06:17:11
AnarkyXtra
BF2s EU Server Admin
+67|7052|Hanging onto the UAV

The Soup Nazi wrote:

if you're looking for a quick fix for better performance, i'd sooner opt for a new motherboard with a 64 bit processor.  match that with a better graphics card and you'll be good to go for a little while.

if you want to stick with the same machine for the next few years and still be able to play up-to-date games, your best bet would be a setup like this:
nForce 4 SLI motherboard
AMD 64 X2 processor
nVidia 7800 GTX (you can always buy a second one later for SLI mode)
2GB PC3200 DDR RAM
73GB SATA Western Digital Raptor (for your system apps)
300+GB SATA Hard Drive (for storage stuff like photos, mp3s, etc)
Apart from the dual core CPU, this is almost identical to my setup. Runs everything fine and loading times are among the quickest (usually onto the map before anyone else, etc).
2005-10-17 06:23:11
The Soup Nazi
Member
+18|7052|North Lauderdale, FL
nice specs, Anarky.  i put together a similar system this weekend (don't tell my wife, she'll kill me )

Asus A8N-SLI Deluxe motherboard
AMD 64 X2 4400 (2x 1MB Cache)
Geil 2GB PC3200 DDR RAM
2x nVidia 7800GT's running in SLI (GTX was out of stock )
...etc

it runs pretty quick, but i'm thinking i'm going to need to do a fresh install of WindowsXP.
2005-10-17 06:30:03
AnarkyXtra
BF2s EU Server Admin
+67|7052|Hanging onto the UAV
Hehe nice!

In place of the dual core CPU, i managed to get a fairly good price on an A64 3700+. Coupled with the GTX, the A8N SLI and 2gb of Corsair Twin-X, it's pretty damn sweet. 

Next on the list is either another GTX or a nice 19" TFT.

[edit]

I made the mistake of trying to use the same install of XP (running from my old HDD) aftre installing all the new kit: not a good idea. Random crashes and the odd blue screen are indication enough to say "Fresh install = teh win". 

Last edited by AnarkyXtra (2005-10-17 06:31:26)

2005-10-17 06:36:00
The Soup Nazi
Member
+18|7052|North Lauderdale, FL
i haven't been getting any blue screens or system hangs, but it does seem rather sluggish at times.  *shrugs*
2005-10-17 09:37:59
Heffty
Member
+9|7033|Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Dnamaster wrote:

you can pick up a RAID controler for $30 or so off e-bay, if your harddrives are IDE it wiill be head to find a mobo wiht IDE RAID built in, mine does i have a gigabyte ga7v-axp and its a great board. but if i were you i woudlent upgrad ur board, you still have a socket A chip, witch will soon be outdated, and there isnt much a new board will help you with. like i said pick up a RAID controler off e-bay.
Again, it seems if I was to purchase a Motherboard from tigerdirect (not that I would buy from them) for a socket A I could have my pick of a few and get one for $30US with RAID. Also, a friend of mine told me those controllers on ebay are junk and don't offer the speeds a $150-$200 RAID controller or motherboard with RAID would provide. Plus if i went with the cheaper motherboard maybe I'd get some other features...which brings me to the other question...what other features would be nice on a socket A board?

Most of you feel RAID wouldnt' help me that much anyway. So that's fine and I understand that. But it would be nice to play around with it anyway just to see and get some more experience. If I wait a little longer maybe these socket A boards will get even cheaper...or one will be on sale somewhere. At this point I can't upgrade my motherboard and CPU, I don't have that kind of money and won't for some time. I am stuck with this computer for the next 2 years if not 3 so I need to work with what I have and just try to make it the best it can be. So how about some suggestions for doing that?

My current Motherboard only allows me to have 2G. Maybe one with more would be nice too. There are also some socket A motherboards on Ebay for under $50.

Thanks for all your responses so far.

Last edited by Heffty (2005-10-17 09:45:23)

2005-10-17 10:00:22
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.
Like most have said, the RAID setup won't help much with this game. RAM is a huge factor tho. I was amazed what an extra 512 did for me when I built a new machine. RAID is nice for video editing or anything else with extremely large file sizes, or if you want to show off your "e-penis".  I have a RAID capable mobo but not using it currently. Maybe later it will be used when and if I start burning more DVD and what-not.
Invest in a better vid card and ram now then if you save up some cash & move onto a better cpu/mobo.
I got a 19" TFT earlier this year and absolutely love it. I got a Viewsonic Vx910. Low response times, 8bit and no ghosting at all. I also discovered how much desk I now have too!!
My next buy will definitely be a better vid card. I bought a 6600GT with aspirations of getting 2 to put in SLI, thus having 6800GT performance for cheaper, but decided to just save up for the 7800GT or GTX.
2005-10-17 10:11:07
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.
My previous socket A board was a Giga-byte GA-N700 Pro.   Great socket A board with SATA and IDE RAID capabilities if you wanted to expand to SATA later on. It wasn't a shabby overclocker either! I never had any issues with this board. It was stable and you could put up to 3.2gb of ram on it. It had on board sound, nothing great but helps save a bit of cash if you don't have the available funds for a better sound card. AC-97 codec (Realtek) was the sound if I am not mistaken. Built in LAN as well. I wished I kept the board for an extra back up machine. It was a solid performer in my opinion.

Last edited by Badcomp (2005-10-17 10:12:19)

2005-10-17 10:13:50
Heffty
Member
+9|7033|Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Badcomp wrote:

Like most have said, the RAID setup won't help much with this game. RAM is a huge factor tho.
Invest in a better vid card and ram now then if you save up some cash & move onto a better cpu/mobo.
I got a 19" TFT earlier this year and absolutely love it.
As stated above, I am fully aware from what you gents have told me that RAID will not improve BF2 that much if any...we can lay that to rest. I simply can not upgrade to a new videocard, mbo/cpu or buy a TFT monitor...so we can lay that one to rest too.  I have 2G RAM and that helps big time. I am merely exploring my motherboard options at this point. Perhaps spending $30 on an ebay socket A motherboard with  RAID (again, just to play around with...not because it's a good upgrade or even worth it) along with dual channel capabilities would be a decent upgrade. My current motherboard doesn't have dual channel. I typed in Socket A motherboard into ebay and a few came up...lots under $30. Maybe you guys could have a look and tell me what you think; if this dual channel is a reasonable upgrade for under $30. Also I noticed some motherboards allow for 3G of memory where my motherboard only allows for 2G, but I'm not sure if that is PC3200 memory which is what I have...some were only PC2700.
2005-10-17 10:20:26
Ludic
Member
+0|7033|New York
Well, I'm glad all you guys think a RAID doesn't help any.

It ensures that I'll get the vehicle I want at the start of a new map.
2005-10-17 11:20:43
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.

Heffty wrote:

Badcomp wrote:

Like most have said, the RAID setup won't help much with this game. RAM is a huge factor tho.
Invest in a better vid card and ram now then if you save up some cash & move onto a better cpu/mobo.
I got a 19" TFT earlier this year and absolutely love it.
As stated above, I am fully aware from what you gents have told me that RAID will not improve BF2 that much if any...we can lay that to rest. I simply can not upgrade to a new videocard, mbo/cpu or buy a TFT monitor...so we can lay that one to rest too.  I have 2G RAM and that helps big time. I am merely exploring my motherboard options at this point. Perhaps spending $30 on an ebay socket A motherboard with  RAID (again, just to play around with...not because it's a good upgrade or even worth it) along with dual channel capabilities would be a decent upgrade. My current motherboard doesn't have dual channel. I typed in Socket A motherboard into ebay and a few came up...lots under $30. Maybe you guys could have a look and tell me what you think; if this dual channel is a reasonable upgrade for under $30. Also I noticed some motherboards allow for 3G of memory where my motherboard only allows for 2G, but I'm not sure if that is PC3200 memory which is what I have...some were only PC2700.
Please refer to the 2nd post I made.
That board I stated has all that you are looking for. I can't tell you for sure what the prices are. I'll check into that later.
2005-10-17 11:23:06
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.

Ludic wrote:

Well, I'm glad all you guys think a RAID doesn't help any.

It ensures that I'll get the vehicle I want at the start of a new map.
With enough ram the RAID isn't used as everything is prety much loaded into the ram. Having to access the HDD is bad due to the limitations of moving mechanical parts.
If you don't have a lot of ram but do have RAID setup then yes it will help. But the guy with more ram will beat your HDD load times any day of the week.
2005-10-17 11:39:02
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.
Here is some info Heffty.


http://www.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard/Pr … %20Pro.htm

I don't know about the prices of this board. Pricewatch only has the Rev.2 model which still goes for $90.


Ignore the pricegrabber post. Wrong board.  My apologies. If you want IDe RAID, find the Pro version which should be around 50 or so bucks.

Last edited by Badcomp (2005-10-18 05:35:45)

2005-10-17 17:45:11
Heffty
Member
+9|7033|Calgary, Alberta, Canada

Badcomp wrote:

Here is some info Heffty.


http://www.giga-byte.com/MotherBoard/Pr … %20Pro.htm

I don't know about the prices of this board. Pricewatch only has the Rev.2 model which still goes for $90.


Here is something from pricegrabber I just found. 

http://www.pricegrabber.com/search_getp … h=GA-7N400
I should have mentioned I have IDE hard drives. Won't be able to RAID with the motherboards you have listed cause they are SATA.  Is there a motherboard out there that would support IDE RAID and has the Dual Channel technology?
2005-10-18 05:33:52
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.
Heffty.....This board supports both.   I know. I had it. It will do both IDE AND SATA raid.

It's all right there int he product specs.

Serial ATA interface with RAID 0, 1 function
Serial ATA is the revolutionary ATA interface that provides scalable performance for IDE device. With up to 150MB/s data transfer rate, Serial ATA is faster than current Parallel ATA and delivers superior input/output performance. In addition, the Serial ATA interface is furnished with RAID 0,1 function for extra performace enhancement and data protection.


GigaRAID IDE RAID Controller:
Supporting RAID (0, 1, 0+1), JBOD function and ATA133 interface, GigaRAID Controller delivers completely solution for storage interface to increase fault tolerance, improve data access performance and provides additional interface for more IDE devices.
2005-10-18 09:58:18
Heffty
Member
+9|7033|Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Yeah, I found it last night but didn't post. Thanks for everything though. I should have my motherboard in a few weeks. I'm going with either the GIGABYTE you mentioned or the Asus A7N8X-Deluxe Socket A motherboard. I know you really like th Gigabyte board, do you know anything about the Asus I found here?

So in the end I'm going to spend $30-50 on a new motherboard that will give me a ton of more options and a better chipset than the Biostar M7NCD that I have now. Most noted, I will have RAID. Dual Channel, and the ability to go up to 3G where as now I can only go up to 2. Do you think this is a reasonable upgrade for $30-50CAN or do you think I'm just wasting my money? Will I notice these improvements?

Lastly, Do you know any good online sites that would guide me through the setup of a RAID with IDE Harddrives? I've never done it before. I wish I could afford 2 raptors and then RAID them...but that's wishful thinking.

Thanks for everything.
Heffty.
2005-10-18 10:55:49
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.
Most of the tech sites I am sure will have a guide for RAID setups.

www.anandtech.com

www.tomshardware.com         

Tom's Hardware leaves much to be desired anymore, they have really gone downhill since the original Tom sold the site.
I prefer Anandtech.

It's not hard at all to set up a RAID configuration. If you want, you can drop me a email and I will explain it to the best of my abilities.
The Asus board is a good one as well. Asus always have pretty good products.
2005-10-18 11:02:34
shortah
Oh did you want that tank?
+0|7036|Mechanicsville, VA
How many of you guys actually know what RAID is and what the point of it is? jw.....
2005-10-18 11:13:33
Badcomp
Member
+2|7053|U.S.

shortah wrote:

How many of you guys actually know what RAID is and what the point of it is? jw.....
RAID= redundant array of independent disks  (some people say the I is for Inexpensive also)


Provides better fault tolerance, transfer rates and data replications. Usually performs better than a single disk.
Helps with "downtime" issues with hardware failures (RAID 0+1), etc..




Heffty, here is some good info to read up on for you. Explains it fairly well.

http://computer.howstuffworks.com/frame … /raid.html

Last edited by Badcomp (2005-10-18 11:18:32)

 

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