BF2S Forums Pope John Paul II regularly whipped himself, what does this mean?

ruisleipa wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

muslims do it too

Don't care.

All muslims don't do it, just like all Catholics don't either. But it's stupid imo when a pope is sanctified for this. Diminishes any moral authority the church might otherwise have held. Why do you need to bring muslims into it?

what religion are you?

eleven bravo wrote:

what religion are you?

why do you ask?

eleven bravo wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

what religion are you?

why do you ask?

why do you answer a question with a question?

i can see this ending well

ruisleipa wrote:

FEOS wrote:

The flagellation has nothing to do with his proposed sainthood.

It's no more odd than any other religious ritual performed by any other devout member of any other religion would seem to any other person who is not as devout or not of that religion.

Not my thing, but I really couldn't care less.

"It is clear the aspect of penitence was present in the life of John Paul II," Oder told a news conference today. "It should be seen as part of his profound relationship with the Lord."

The book in reference is "Why a Saint?" was written by Monsignor Slawomir Oder, who is the Vatican official in charge of the process that is implemented to have someone named a saint.

As I understand it it IS part of the argument for him being sanctified. No more odd than ANY other ritual? I think most people would consider self-flaggellation somewhere at the more extreme end, but whatever.

Oh, but don't forget that he also has to have 'performed a miracle' to be a saint. It'd be funny if it wasn't so pathetic.

It is simply an argument for his piousness, not for his sanctification, although they are related--you can't have the latter without the former. But he was Pope, ffs. His piousness is already well established.

ruisleipa wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

why do you ask?

why do you answer a question with a question?

err...cos it's none of your business so I'm wondering what your point is.

why do you answer a question in response to your question with another question?

oooh isn't this fun!?

well if you arent catholic, why the rage?  let the silly religious people do whatever it is they want to do to make themselves happy

Macbeth wrote:

ruisleipa wrote:

. But it's stupid imo when a pope is sanctified for this. Diminishes any moral authority the church might otherwise have held.

It used to be a common practice that many people performed. Along the way Christians gave up little bits here and there of their religion.
But this Pope instead performed, in secret not like he was proud of it, the whipping practice on himself. Mind you most people don't perform this practice because of the pain and scarring involved but this Pope was such a believer he performed it.

Now considering people often like to shoot off the insult that modern Christians or the Church is hypocritical, wouldn't a Pope that performed a religious act which many people are too afraid or too weak to perform seem seem like a non hypocritical true genuine believer?

You never responded back ruisleipa.

11 Bravo wrote:

what a fucking idiot

LOL.

eleven bravo wrote:

well if you arent catholic, why the rage?  let the silly religious people do whatever it is they want to do to make themselves happy

rage? what rage? apart from people calling me a 'fucking idiot'. lmao.

Of course to an extent people can do what they want. Honestly, if you want to whip yourself, go for it, be my guest. BUT when this is (or was)  the head of an organised religion numbering millions of followers that purports to be the sole representative of God's work on earth, and is now maybe becoming a 'saint' partly because of this and because of some other imaginary nonsense he...er...DIDN'T DO, personally I feel it completely ridiculous that this practice is a) still continuing, and b) seen as a GOOD THING, and further c) is actually considered by some people - who really must be MENTAL, that's the only word I can think of to describe it - that hurting yourself actually DEMONSTRATES piousness, saintliness, and closeness to God. And now someone who, as I've said before, if it were a member of the public who went about hitting themselves and saying it 'brought them closer to Zeus' would be sent for psychiatric evaluation. But because it's the pope it's A-OK, or positively seen as a GOOD THING. You honestly don't find it a bit OTT?? really?

Maybe it's just me then and you lot are all a bunch of gimps..?

ruisleipa wrote:

eleven bravo wrote:

well if you arent catholic, why the rage?  let the silly religious people do whatever it is they want to do to make themselves happy

rage? what rage? apart from people calling me a 'fucking idiot'. lmao.

Of course to an extent people can do what they want. Honestly, if you want to whip yourself, go for it, be my guest. BUT when this is (or was)  the head of an organised religion numbering millions of followers that purports to be the sole representative of God's work on earth, and is now maybe becoming a 'saint' partly because of this and because of some other imaginary nonsense he...er...DIDN'T DO, personally I feel it completely ridiculous that this practice is a) still continuing, and b) seen as a GOOD THING, and further c) is actually considered by some people - who really must be MENTAL, that's the only word I can think of to describe it - that hurting yourself actually DEMONSTRATES piousness, saintliness, and closeness to God. And now someone who, as I've said before, if it were a member of the public who went about hitting themselves and saying it 'brought them closer to Zeus' would be sent for psychiatric evaluation. But because it's the pope it's A-OK, or positively seen as a GOOD THING. You honestly don't find it a bit OTT?? really?

Maybe it's just me then and you lot are all a bunch of gimps..?

http://i297.photobucket.com/albums/mm21 … mpSuit.jpg

wow, your a douche dude.  all I asked was a question.  Im surprised how a non catholic as yourself cares so much about an internal catholic issue. 


p.s. youre a gimp

eleven bravo wrote:

wow, your a douche dude.  all I asked was a question.  Im surprised how a non catholic as yourself cares so much about an internal catholic issue. 

p.s. youre a gimp

lol, take it easy. Why call me a douche? you asked a question, I answered. What's the problem? Do you have a follow-up question? Something I wrote didn't make sense? Feel free to ask me another question if you're not satisfied.

p.s. the gimp thing was a joke. Sorry you didn't get it

Then why are you posting here if you don't care, eleven?

I don't see why self-flagellation is a bad thing. I don't think the flagellation is being considered as a prerequisite for his sanctification, but rather as PROOF of his piousness. Many religions and philosophies around the world practice mind over matter and/or using pain as a way to opening the mind. When your body is in pain, it can be used as a way to help you concentrate on something. It makes sense. JP used it as a way to focus on God. Big deal.

JP was a great Pope and a great human being. Saint or not, he's definitely one of the most important people in modern history without a doubt.

11 Bravo wrote:

DesertFox- wrote:

Ioan92 wrote:

Yeah, because it's the cause of all that hatred/violence/prejudice/intolerance...

never said it was.  but, too many people look to it to solve their problems.  or they think their religion is the only one and other religions are the enemy.  take your pick.

The folks described are clearly irrational. Religion isn't meant to solve your problems; that's what wishing wells are for. There's no problem with regarding your religion as the "true" or "correct", if you will, one either, but if they were truly practicing it, they'd appreciate tolerance for the beliefs of others, and any change would be the result of a lot of introspection rather than external pressure/threat. As we undoubtedly know, though, the normal religious folk you run into every day aren't the ones who make the news with what they do because they're just like you.